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      10-08-2020, 11:07 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by boss2k View Post
You are one of a kind , have you driven a S2K and you are the 1st person i heard who doesnt like that shifter, its the best
No, actually I'm not the first person who prefers BMW shifter over the S2K shifter. And yes, I have driven S2K's and other cars with more mechanical feeling shifters.

You're making a lot of nonsensical generalizations. Just because you're a fan of SSK-like shifters doesn't mean everyone else is too. Like the other guy above mentioned, not everyone wants a mechanical or notchy shifter.

It's personal preference. I find the shifts on the M2C are a lot more precise and easier to row through than those on the S2K.
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      10-08-2020, 11:22 AM   #90
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I find the shifts on the M2C are a lot more precise and easier to row through than those on the S2K.
Just wow. You're lottery rare.
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      10-08-2020, 11:48 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j23 View Post
No, actually I'm not the first person who prefers BMW shifter over the S2K shifter. And yes, I have driven S2K's and other cars with more mechanical feeling shifters.

You're making a lot of nonsensical generalizations. Just because you're a fan of SSK-like shifters doesn't mean everyone else is too. Like the other guy above mentioned, not everyone wants a mechanical or notchy shifter.

It's personal preference. I find the shifts on the M2C are a lot more precise and easier to row through than those on the S2K.
You are an exception and yes i respect your personal preferences, 99% of the manual drivers feel the same way as me and its not nonsensical generalizations

BMW M2 shifter is great too , not as good as a S2K

M2 is easier to shift , ofcourse because its long throws and not as crisp as a short shifter . Have you seen the wide gap between 4th and 5th , you can never miss it. The shifter in my vette was more tight spaced as it was 7 speed manual , you can easily miss 7th to 6th or 4th to 5th and theres the fun
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      10-08-2020, 12:19 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by boss2k View Post
You are an exception and yes i respect your personal preferences, 99% of the manual drivers feel the same way as me and its not nonsensical generalizations

BMW M2 shifter is great too , not as good as a S2K

M2 is easier to shift , ofcourse because its long throws and not as crisp as a short shifter . Have you seen the wide gap between 4th and 5th , you can never miss it. The shifter in my vette was more tight spaced as it was 7 speed manual , you can easily miss 7th to 6th or 4th to 5th and theres the fun
You said I'm the first one you ever heard of. Yet, there's no shortage of people who prefer the BMW shifter on these forums. Even the guy's post above mine alluded to the same. So yes, you're making nonsensical generalizations.

Did you survey 99% of manual drivers? - You didn't. So stop generalizing and pulling imaginary stats out of your arse.
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      10-08-2020, 12:21 PM   #93
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Just wow. You're lottery rare.
Rare? - Maybe.
First one? - Guaranteed no.

Forums regulars don't represent the majority of owners. Not even close.
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      10-08-2020, 12:44 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by j23 View Post
Rare? - Maybe.
First one? - Guaranteed no.

Forums regulars don't represent the majority of owners. Not even close.
But you'd have to be insane to think that, if you sent 500 manual car enthusiasts out with the two cars, more than 5% would come back liking the M2 trans better. The M2 box is numb, rubbery, wide, and vague compared to the S2K box, and that just isn't what most enthusiasts would desire. It's not a bad driving experience, it's just not nearly as communicative.

But I'm glad you like it
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      10-08-2020, 01:32 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j23 View Post
You said I'm the first one you ever heard of. Yet, there's no shortage of people who prefer the BMW shifter on these forums. Even the guy's post above mine alluded to the same. So yes, you're making nonsensical generalizations.

Did you survey 99% of manual drivers? - You didn't. So stop generalizing and pulling imaginary stats out of your arse.
I know lots of manual drivers, not only limited to BMW and 100% of them say S2K shifter is the benchmark , period. BTW BMW manual cars are not known for their shifters , i am glad the M2 is such an improvement, rest of the BMW stock shifters suck and need SSK to even come close to a S2K quality . Therefore stop comparing with BMW drivers only and look out and do more study and research. And yes you are the 1st one i heard that doesnt like a S2K shifter or maybe you dont know what its really driving one
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      10-22-2020, 12:09 PM   #96
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Three Cheers for CDV Delete

Just had the E9x slave cylinder installed today and it was well worth the money! I had previously put in the BMS clutch stop (all 3 shims) and that was helpful to better modulate the CDV issue. But after replacing the slave the clutch quickly and consistently engages. Feels much more natural and how I remember my E92 with CDV delete. Both mods have given me 95% of what I'd like to have. The last 5% I'd like to see is a little stiffer resistance. Maybe the aftermarket will make some stiffer springs without buying the whole UCP.

For those who like numbers the BMS clutch stop was $10 and about 10 minutes of my time. The replacement slave was $100 from ECS. The shop charged 2 hours of labor and $40 for hydraulic fluid. Well worth the modest cost.
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      10-22-2020, 12:21 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boss2k View Post
I know lots of manual drivers, not only limited to BMW and 100% of them say S2K shifter is the benchmark , period. BTW BMW manual cars are not known for their shifters , i am glad the M2 is such an improvement, rest of the BMW stock shifters suck and need SSK to even come close to a S2K quality . Therefore stop comparing with BMW drivers only and look out and do more study and research. And yes you are the 1st one i heard that doesnt like a S2K shifter or maybe you dont know what its really driving one
The M2 shifter feels like all the other German cars I’ve had. Not bad. Just not great
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      10-22-2020, 01:04 PM   #98
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I came from a manual G35 with the CD009 trans and for what it's worth I hugely prefer the M2 shifting feel. Hated virtually everything about Infiniti/Nissan and will never go back to them again lol
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      10-22-2020, 02:25 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmo 335i View Post
Just had the E9x slave cylinder installed today and it was well worth the money! ... Feels much more natural and how I remember my E92 with CDV delete.
I did the same a couple weeks ago. Was originally unsure if necessary, but no regrets and love it. Feels like my previous BMWs (all of which had the Zeckhausen modified CDV delete).
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      10-22-2020, 06:07 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boss2k View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by j23 View Post
You said I'm the first one you ever heard of. Yet, there's no shortage of people who prefer the BMW shifter on these forums. Even the guy's post above mine alluded to the same. So yes, you're making nonsensical generalizations.

Did you survey 99% of manual drivers? - You didn't. So stop generalizing and pulling imaginary stats out of your arse.
I know lots of manual drivers, not only limited to BMW and 100% of them say S2K shifter is the benchmark , period. BTW BMW manual cars are not known for their shifters , i am glad the M2 is such an improvement, rest of the BMW stock shifters suck and need SSK to even come close to a S2K quality . Therefore stop comparing with BMW drivers only and look out and do more study and research. And yes you are the 1st one i heard that doesnt like a S2K shifter or maybe you dont know what its really driving one
S2000 shifter rocks! - period! This coming from being an owner of 2021 M2C, 2008 S2000CR, and 2006 S2000.

Any time you sit on top of the transmission and the shift lever goes directly into the transmission without unnecessary mechanical linkages, engaging gears is absolutely direct and precise to the fullest extent possible. No amount of modifications in the M2C will provide the direct feel you get driving an S2000.

I recently spoke to Ron at Auto solutions. In our conversation, even he commented that replicating the transmission feel of the S2000 in the M2C is difficult at best. He referred to the difference in size of the transmission where the S2000 is so much smaller. Incidentally, there's a reason why all of us are talking about augmenting our transmissions with auto solutions SSK or other short shifters. The S2000 requires nothing but maybe your own personalized shift knob.

There are many reviews and comparisons even today where so often the S2000 shifter is figuratively the benchmark, particularly how precise the S2000 shifts and very few cars even shift as well. That's saying something considering the S2000 is twenty-years old today. Listed below are recent reviews.

https://www.thedrive.com/new-cars/28...dster-showdown

"....Honda drivers will also be rewarded with a downright legendary shifter (more on that later) but the verdict is clear.....It's well-documented by now that the Honda S2000's manual shift action is one of the most satisfying experiences of modern motoring. It's oily, metallic, and comically short. It feels like a wartime weapon and leaves no ambiguity as to which one of the six cogs is currently hooked up to the rear axle. It's as good as they say, and a clear victor here."

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...d-test-review/

..."the tranny has six gears dedi­cated to keeping the engine spinning, and the shifter feels oh-so-sports-car perfect."

https://www.automobilemag.com/news/2...photos-values/

...."high-revving, manual-transmission sports cars, buyers are realizing how great the S2000 was for its time and still is today."

Putting all of the reviews and comments aside on comparisons with the S2000, I can offer personal ownership experience of almost 15 vehicles which were mostly manual. None of the other and in many cases more expensive vehicles remotely resemble the feel and connection of the S2000 manual transmission. Additionally, I've driven expensive cars as well including Porsche 911, Porsche boxster S, Acura NSX and a few others and still the S2000 transmission shifts reign supreme. The only thing superior for some M owners is is rev-matching, which the S2000 never had. I personally enjoy heel-toe driving but it's nice to have rev-matching. The S2000 shifts are quite possibly the best experience you will get in a proper performance sports car of modern times.

Another compelling reason for why other manufacturers have not designed something better is probably the focus and advent of dual clutch transmissions. Manual shifting is a dying technology and unfortunately they are not going to put money into engineering something more precise due to lower customer demand and use. An exception to this is Porsche, who continues to give us on the shifting experience in manuals and still offer top-notch PDK dual clutch transmissions.

I understand the S2000 is not everyone's cup of tea but drive one back to back with another manual and you immediately can tell why it's so highly regarded as a proper shifting manual.
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      10-22-2020, 10:12 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GarageMadness View Post
S2000 shifter rocks! - period! This coming from being an owner of 2021 M2C, 2008 S2000CR, and 2006 S2000.

Any time you sit on top of the transmission and the shift lever goes directly into the transmission without unnecessary mechanical linkages, engaging gears is absolutely direct and precise to the fullest extent possible. No amount of modifications in the M2C will provide the direct feel you get driving an S2000.

I recently spoke to Ron at Auto solutions. In our conversation, even he commented that replicating the transmission feel of the S2000 in the M2C is difficult at best. He referred to the difference in size of the transmission where the S2000 is so much smaller. Incidentally, there's a reason why all of us are talking about augmenting our transmissions with auto solutions SSK or other short shifters. The S2000 requires nothing but maybe your own personalized shift knob.

There are many reviews and comparisons even today where so often the S2000 shifter is figuratively the benchmark, particularly how precise the S2000 shifts and very few cars even shift as well. That's saying something considering the S2000 is twenty-years old today. Listed below are recent reviews.

https://www.thedrive.com/new-cars/28...dster-showdown

"....Honda drivers will also be rewarded with a downright legendary shifter (more on that later) but the verdict is clear.....It's well-documented by now that the Honda S2000's manual shift action is one of the most satisfying experiences of modern motoring. It's oily, metallic, and comically short. It feels like a wartime weapon and leaves no ambiguity as to which one of the six cogs is currently hooked up to the rear axle. It's as good as they say, and a clear victor here."

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...d-test-review/

..."the tranny has six gears dedi*cated to keeping the engine spinning, and the shifter feels oh-so-sports-car perfect."

https://www.automobilemag.com/news/2...photos-values/

...."high-revving, manual-transmission sports cars, buyers are realizing how great the S2000 was for its time and still is today."

Putting all of the reviews and comments aside on comparisons with the S2000, I can offer personal ownership experience of almost 15 vehicles which were mostly manual. None of the other and in many cases more expensive vehicles remotely resemble the feel and connection of the S2000 manual transmission. Additionally, I've driven expensive cars as well including Porsche 911, Porsche boxster S, Acura NSX and a few others and still the S2000 transmission shifts reign supreme. The only thing superior for some M owners is is rev-matching, which the S2000 never had. I personally enjoy heel-toe driving but it's nice to have rev-matching. The S2000 shifts are quite possibly the best experience you will get in a proper performance sports car of modern times.

Another compelling reason for why other manufacturers have not designed something better is probably the focus and advent of dual clutch transmissions. Manual shifting is a dying technology and unfortunately they are not going to put money into engineering something more precise due to lower customer demand and use. An exception to this is Porsche, who continues to give us on the shifting experience in manuals and still offer top-notch PDK dual clutch transmissions.

I understand the S2000 is not everyone's cup of tea but drive one back to back with another manual and you immediately can tell why it's so highly regarded as a proper shifting manual.
Couldnt agree with you more, i have driven a S2K couple of times and it has the best shifting experience.
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      01-12-2021, 09:28 PM   #102
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Does removing the CDV help with the rev hang?
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      01-12-2021, 09:57 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckfung95 View Post
Does removing the CDV help with the rev hang?
Not even slightly lol

It just makes the grab point predictable and makes taking off from a stop much smoother.

I'd recommend never driving in "sport" it seems to have the most aggressive rev hang for some reason.

I've also heard that flashing the M2CS tune to our car gets rid of the rev hang.
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      01-12-2021, 10:47 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBbluem2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckfung95 View Post
Does removing the CDV help with the rev hang?
Not even slightly lol

It just makes the grab point predictable and makes taking off from a stop much smoother.

I'd recommend never driving in "sport" it seems to have the most aggressive rev hang for some reason.

I've also heard that flashing the M2CS tune to our car gets rid of the rev hang.
thanks for your reply.
That's interesting. I do find that driving with DSC off helps with the rev hang for regular around town driving. But that turns off the auto rev match feature, which I've grown to love.
I'm assuming by loading the M2CS tune on it, it'll void warranty and such?
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      01-13-2021, 10:22 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2020M2Competition View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thescout13 View Post
I know there is a CDV delete discussion in the general M2 sub forum that hasn't been pinged in a while, but also have noticed that some M2C owners have discussed the possibility of a CDV delete to add to their UCP and AS SSK set up and the difficulty of it being located in the slave cylinder.

Came across this thread below on the F30 forums (figure most people are searching on the M2 forum and don't come across this thread since it's in the F30 one) that some may be aware of, that may be helpful here for those guys looking to get rid of the vague and ever changing engagement point they are feeling after the UCP install (I know I am). It looks like it is a direct replacement for our slave cylinder (effectively removing the CDV/restriction). I went ahead and purchased the part number in the thread and will have my shop install it while they are installing the AS SSK next week. Can keep everyone updated once installed.

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1666477
I'm planning on getting this slave cylinder, as well

I'm also thinking it would be nice to replace the stock clutch line (Part # 21526869276) with something better

AFAIK, there are no aftermarket options available (someone please correct me if I'm wrong)

Anyhow, I noticed Rogue Engineering offers stainless steel replacement lines for other models

https://www.rogueengineering.com/Rog...ine_p_134.html

I'm thinking of contacting them to see if they might be able to make one for our cars

In any case, if anyone knows of another supplier who might be able to assist me with having a high quality stainless steel replacement made please let me know
Any response from RE in clutch line?
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      01-14-2021, 05:37 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by GarageMadness View Post
Any response from RE in clutch line?
I never got around to asking them about it
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      01-14-2021, 06:39 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckfung95 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LBbluem2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckfung95 View Post
Does removing the CDV help with the rev hang?
Not even slightly lol

It just makes the grab point predictable and makes taking off from a stop much smoother.

I'd recommend never driving in "sport" it seems to have the most aggressive rev hang for some reason.

I've also heard that flashing the M2CS tune to our car gets rid of the rev hang.
thanks for your reply.
That's interesting. I do find that driving with DSC off helps with the rev hang for regular around town driving. But that turns off the auto rev match feature, which I've grown to love.
I'm assuming by loading the M2CS tune on it, it'll void warranty and such?
Yep warranty out the window with a tune.

I will say that if you do the holy shifter trinity the experience rowing gears becomes REALLY nice.

Auto solutions ssk
Ultimate clutch pedal
E90 slave

Efficient mode and S+ are absolutely awesome to drive around now
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      04-05-2021, 08:30 AM   #108
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Cross posting here.
I have a 2021 F87 M2 competition with a manual transmission.

This mod is absolutely essential. The metered valve installed in the slave clutch cylinder on the M2 competition 6MT is absolutely tiny, about the size of a pin head. It appeared smaller than the CDV on my E82 135i! The difference felt after installing the E90 part is incredible. I can now drive this car "smoother than an automatic" according to my partner. My passengers feel much more comfortable and their necks no longer hurt from the uncontrollable herky-jerky-ness of 1, 2 and 3rd gear shifts.

I found this bleeding thread to be very useful: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1646233

Bleeding tips from me: I used the motive power bleeder, since I had one. I recommend a power bleeder, it makes this and brake bleeds a 1-person job. Fill the reservoir above the max line, but not overflowing and try to pre-populate most of the power bleeder's hose with brake fluid before screwing the fill cap to the reservoir. At least on the Motive product, it's OK and actually great (for pinching the line off to remove the cap when you are done to minimize spills) if you can have an air bubble of a few inches in the line in the high spot where the line will arc away from the fill cap. The line is thick enough that you don't need to worry about the bubble being pushed into the reservoir, the fluid will flow under the air bubble if you are slow enough. Make sure it's pressurized before you open the bleed screw, so fluid is replenished immediately! (I used about 5 PSI, but you can probably use up to 10 or 15) On this car, it's really hard to see the internal structure that prioritizes hydraulic fluid availability to the brakes. On my E82, you could see it with a flashlight in the back - it's surprisingly small! The reservoir needs to be very full (overfilled, honestly), so that the fluid overcomes a little "dam" spillway inside the reservoir and allows flows of brake fluid to the master cyl instead of air. If you don't keep the reservoir continuously filled, air will get sucked into your master cylinder, and that sets you back quite a ways because now you need to purge the upper portion of the system. Crack the bleed valve open, I did about 2 to 3 turns, and let some fluid through. Close the valve, and now *slowly* start actuating the clutch - you don't want to suck air in, you want the pressure bleeder to supply fluid to the clutch portion of the reservoir. It will fall to the floor and not return - don't panic. Do this a couple of times, then crack the bleed valve open some more. I repeated this about 4 times and it started feeling pretty good.

Important note: DO NOT pump the clutch with the slave cylinder attached to the hydraulic line, but not installed in the bell-housing against the throw-out fork. Like others have experienced and described, you will cause the piston to overextend, blow the seal, and send brake fluid gushing everywhere like a balloon of brake fluid just popped. I suppose you could clamp the piston down it if you really wanted to do that, but to properly bleed, you need to pump the clutch pedal and manually lift it back up multiple times to cycle the piston. So you may as well properly install it before you mess with the hydraulics. I have not experienced this first hand, but in reading other threads, this was mentioned.

Also note: I removed the F87's stock slave clutch cylinder and it defaulted to max extension. The new part was shipped fully retracted, and wouldn't pull out by hand. I wasn't sure if there was a shipping "clip" that held the cylinder in it's fully retracted position, or if once filled with fluid and actuated, it would sheer of a small piece of plastic and operate as normal. I checked under the dust boot, nothing obvious. I was also unsure if it would mate up correctly to the clutch fork, being fully retracted. Thankfully they have a grease on the clutch fork which gets on the tip of the slave cylinder, that showed that the it was actually going to seat properly - it would mate up just fine. Because the cylinder is allowed to wobble about by a fair number of degrees, you don't want that missing the clutch fork and exploding inside your bell-housing. You need to drop the transmission to clean that up! I installed it as it was shipped to me, and it worked perfectly fine.

Do this mod. The CDV is making you look like you don't know how to drive a manual. The CDV ruins the whole MT experience. You know how to drive a manual, and you know how to not shock the drive line - that is, unless you want to

Last edited by bitcore; 04-05-2021 at 08:42 AM..
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      04-05-2021, 11:14 PM   #109
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After going through this many times, I will NOT be monkeying with the CDV on my M2c when it arrives. I had it removed on my ZHP, my E39 M5, my first Z4MC, and my 2nd and current Z4MC came to me with it already removed. Sorry guys, but I feel no discernible difference with the thing removed. In ANY of those cars.
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      04-05-2021, 11:20 PM   #110
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Agreed, CDV has nothing to do with the jerkiness of the shifts, either. It's only really noticeable in fine modulation of the clutch.
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