[Robin_NL]

ATM I have Sportauto issue 4 in front of me.

Having googled and searched on FB(Sportauto carmag) I cannot seem to find where this comparison is from...



Anybody?

Jason ?

Thanks.

Cheers
Robin

[Rasya]

Only one good explanation for the difference in lap times here in my opinion, ceramic brakes. Otherwise these data don't make any sense imho.

[Gunzaro]

Wow this shows that M2 is as fast as the M4. This really demonstrates the potential of the M2. Im impressed!

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by Rasya

Only one good explanation for the difference in lap times here in my opinion, ceramic brakes. Otherwise these data don't make any sense imho.

Please explain.

Benefit of ceramic brakes is more enduring stopping power lap after lap after lap.

I don't see the connection with (difference in) laptimes also because they're pretty equal to start with.

?

Cheers
Robin

[gthal]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Lol, how would the M2 even have a straightline advantage? I think there may be some driver skill going on here.

If it's easier to get the power down coming out of a corner, this would be why. On LONG straights, the M4 power would overcome that eventually.

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by gthal

If it's easier to get the power down coming out of a corner, this would be why. On LONG straights, the M4 power would overcome that eventually.

Exactly. Same driver in both cars.

I honestly think people who like sporty cars like M products should invest more in themselves in terms of (attending) trackdays and the why and how of it/laptimes, traction/grip etc etc (GOOGLE is your friend) instead of carbonfiber ashtrays, special colours and 43HP more

A bit kidding, but I hope you'll understand.

I'm learning everyday.

Cheers
Robin

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

ATM I have Sportauto issue 4 in front of me.

Having googled and searched on FB(Sportauto carmag) I cannot seem to find where this comparison is from...



Anybody?

Jason ?

Thanks.

Cheers
Robin

It says in the OP that it's been "compiled by DeDe". It's basically just DeDe overlaying the 4/2016 lap with the best M4 lap.

It's just compiled by DeDe instead of copy paste from a Sport Auto comparison (which they haven't done).

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by Boss330

It says in the OP that it's been "compiled by DeDe". It's basically just DeDe overlaying the 4/2016 lap with the best M4 lap.

It's just compiled by DeDe instead of copy paste from a Sport Auto comparison (which they haven't done).

Thanks, I saw that in another forum(DeDe's comparison)

Point is: Where did he get that 1:12,3 laptime for M4 DCT or is that the new Competition Package M4?

Because afaik there was no 1:12,3 done by any M4 DCT ( for Sportauto at least)

I already asked Sportauto themselves, awaiting info

Cheers
Robin

[outcast]

These M4 numbers do not match any of my Sport Auto magazines. The fastest M4 DKG time in Hockenheim published by Sport Auto is 1:12.6 min.

So yes, where are these M4 numbers from?

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by outcast

These M4 numbers do not match any of my Sport Auto magazines. The fastest M4 DKG time in Hockenheim published by Sport Auto is 1:12.6 min.

So yes, where are these M4 numbers from?

Probably from Abe. First Navigator Ever



Cheers
Robin

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

Sarcasm I guess?


Like the M135i in dry circumstances was faster than M135iX overthere.

X drive on tracks can come in handy when you're:
-a not so good kind of (amateur) driver
-wet condititions etc

And that's about all on a track.

There are awd systems which are very fast on tracks, Nissan GTR, 991 Turbo S , but how (much) fast(er) is a less powerful GT3 etc etc.

Cheers
Robin

Who knows who were driving those cars.

I guess you have never driven the X5M or X6M then.

[StephGOD]

Originally Posted by outcast

These M4 numbers do not match any of my Sport Auto magazines. The fastest M4 DKG time in Hockenheim published by Sport Auto is 1:12.6 min.

So yes, where are these M4 numbers from?

See attached

[Yellowflash21]

M4 had ceramic breaks! So it can't be compared.

AKA yellow calipers.

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

Who knows who were driving those cars.

I guess you have never driven the X5M or X6M then.

Christian Gebhard both drove M135i and M135iX as I recall.

No I have not, normal X5/6 yep. Like X5 M is fast on a track? Because of its X drive....

Please explain why X drive on a dry track is faster. Because apparantly the X drive version of the M135i isn't faster.

EDIT: It made the car equipped with X drive less balanced more nose heavy(relatively spoken) , more prone to understeer which is a bad thing(understatement) at any track...
And the way AWD systems work: Some work as an addition for safety and traction (X drive) but not always as a benefit for fast driving on a dry track, though people tend to think that. Rally is another story(gravel/loose/wet surface), in that case awd is the way to go...

Cheers
Robin

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by flavier69

See attached

Thanks, and yes they tested those ESP systems on/off in issue 4/16 as I remember. Will take a look at it tonight.

Interesting indeed.

Cheers
Robin

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

Who knows who were driving those cars.

I guess you have never driven the X5M or X6M then.

Not sure what you mean by the X5M/X6M example

The question was if a X-drive model would be quicker, not if a X-drive car can do good lap times...

Can the added traction and weight (55kg extra for X-drive on a M235i) make for a quicker track car or not. If traction is a problem on the M2, then yes X-drive could potentially improve laptimes. But only if the added traction can compensate for longer brake distance and lower cornering speeds caused by the added weight. On a wet track, X-drive could certainly prove beneficial to lap times on the M2. But it seems traction isn't a problem during track driving in the M2. If so, the added weight of X-drive will more likely increase laptimes... Just like it apparently did on the M135i

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Not sure what you mean by the X5M/X6M example

The question was if a X-drive model would be quicker, not if a X-drive car can do good lap times...

Can the added traction and weight (55kg extra for X-drive on a M235i) make for a quicker track car or not. If traction is a problem on the M2, then yes X-drive could potentially improve laptimes. But only if the added traction can compensate for longer brake distance and lower cornering speeds caused by the added weight. On a wet track, X-drive could certainly prove beneficial to lap times on the M2. But it seems traction isn't a problem during track driving in the M2. If so, the added weight of X-drive will more likely increase laptimes... Just like it apparently did on the M135i

Exactly...


Cheers
Robin

[fusionchicken]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Lol, how would the M2 even have a straightline advantage? I think there may be some driver skill going on here.

only way is higher corner exit speed

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

Christian Gebhard both drove M135i and M135iX as I recall.

No I have not, normal X5/6 yep. Like X5 M is fast on a track? Because of its X drive....

Please explain why X drive on a dry track is faster. Because apparantly the X drive version of the M135i isn't faster.

EDIT: It made the car equipped with X drive less balanced more nose heavy(relatively spoken) , more prone to understeer which is a bad thing(understatement) at any track...
And the way AWD systems work: Some work as an addition for safety and traction (X drive) but not always as a benefit for fast driving on a dry track, though people tend to think that. Rally is another story(gravel/loose/wet surface), in that case awd is the way to go...

Cheers
Robin

The xDrive car has a squared wheel/tire set-up that are all-season-suckage...

The sDrive car he drove had a staggered wheel/tire combo w/PSS's I believe.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Not sure what you mean by the X5M/X6M example

The question was if a X-drive model would be quicker, not if a X-drive car can do good lap times...

Can the added traction and weight (55kg extra for X-drive on a M235i) make for a quicker track car or not. If traction is a problem on the M2, then yes X-drive could potentially improve laptimes. But only if the added traction can compensate for longer brake distance and lower cornering speeds caused by the added weight. On a wet track, X-drive could certainly prove beneficial to lap times on the M2. But it seems traction isn't a problem during track driving in the M2. If so, the added weight of X-drive will more likely increase laptimes... Just like it apparently did on the M135i

Read my post above ^

With the proper tires, and an active rear diff, yes it can be faster.

[Robin_NL]

Ok so it's the tyres and not the X drive.

Off course it's a matter of components working together, but 'X drive' on a dry track is not the most sophisticated when it comes to fast(er) laptimes vs its rwd counterpart(BMW's are designed as an rwd basis apart from 2Tourer) , because of more weight, less balance, more understeer, already explained.

But anyway. it's all fine with me no worries.

Probably apples to oranges: The famous test: M2 rwd lsd balanced pss tyres vs CLA 45 AMG awd cuptyres on dry Hockenheim Short. RWD vs AWD....

Cheers
Robin

[outcast]

Originally Posted by flavier69

See attached

Thanks! Didn't realize that article was hiding an M4 Hockenheim time - and the best one so far too!