[m2cs__]

My cup2's are having a hard time putting the power down because my drives are short-ish so I can't warm them up in time.

It's pretty foggy and cold more often than not in my area so I was looking for a tire that can handle those conditions.

Am I looking at the PS4S? And would you guys recommend going a little wider than OEM spec or staying OEM?

[Andrew2]

I have used the PS4S through UK Winters on Porsches`... they work very well

Sizes used were the standard fitments - 235 & 265 x 20" / 245 & 295 x 20"

[m2cs__]

Originally Posted by Andrew2

I have used the PS4S through UK Winters on Porsches`... they work very well

Sizes used were the standard fitments - 235 & 265 x 20" / 245 & 295 x 20"

Thanks for sharing your experience. I really just hope to find a tire I can WOT 2nd - 3rd gear without triggering TC lol

[///MPhatic]

This thread is an eye-roll.

1. If you're driving in temps under 42° then ALL Summer tires (that's generally 340 treadwear and below) are out. The cold will cause micro-sipes and your tires will never be the same. Beyond that, you'll have no grip.
2. If you're driving in temps under 32° then you really should have dedicated Winter tires.

For reference:
OE PSS: 300 treadwear
PS4S: 300 treadwear
OE PSC240: 240 treadwear

[medphysdave]

I think your wise for wanting to switch. That being said I'm not sure many tires are going to be good for putting the power down when cold and wet. The cup2, especially, does not like to be cold (very little grip). Wet/damp it does rather well for the type of tire it is

If you have the ability to run a set of wheels with cup 2, and then an all season for the cold and wet months could be best option. Swap to and from the cup2 at the beginning and end of the fringe seasons so you don't feel like you're missing out on the cup2 when the nice weather sprinkles in.

[AlpsRider]

Originally Posted by m2cs__

Thanks for sharing your experience. I really just hope to find a tire I can WOT 2nd - 3rd gear without triggering TC lol

For that you'll need a car with less torque.

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

For that you'll need a car with less torque.

Yeah. I'll add in. Albeit a little off topic. Some tension arms in the rear helped mine dig in better. When I run 295s in the rear vs 265 there is a big difference as well. As much as I love the cup2. The RE71rs seems more ready to go when cold.

Personally, I drive in comfort mode and all nannies on when it's cold/wet.

[///MPECABL]

I swapped to a summer setup that has a Proxes Sport summer front snd Proxes RR rear. I’m summer only on this setup and it’s not happy about puddles water, but it holds the power on the street when dry.

Otherwise, I’ve considered going PS4S for a better all around tire but still summer focused.

[NPTM]

Agree you do not want those tires to see 40 or lower - you’ll destroy the rubber, compound not designed for those temps. You’re not even supposed to store them in the cold let alone drive them in the cold.

I just picked up a set of Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4s to run in the cold on a second set of wheels to keep a dedicated summer setup stored in a climate controlled garage. Love them so far, aggressive all season so exactly what I wanted. Get what you pay for and would be cool with rocking them all season if you do t have a climate controlled place to store summers or even room to store a second set.

[m2cs__]

I probably exaggerated a little when I said it's always cold/wet. I do get sunny weather here, but I can never get the cup2's up to temp. It seems like I'm going for the PS4S's though from talking to a couple of people. Are you guys running wider wheels in the rear or keeping stock.

[medphysdave]

I miss my track setup. My street setup is 295 square 18s. I ran it for a bit on the street. It takes a bit of the wild character away, but it was kinda fun never worrying about traction. The 245/265 is probably good for me so I don't get complacent with a false sense of security. Wide tires step out too in the wrong conditions

[Davil]

Originally Posted by m2cs__

I probably exaggerated a little when I said it's always cold/wet. I do get sunny weather here, but I can never get the cup2's up to temp. It seems like I'm going for the PS4S's though from talking to a couple of people. Are you guys running wider wheels in the rear or keeping stock.

PS4S are such an old tyre these days. They are more comfort oriented, good grip but have horrible steering feel. Granted I live in a warm climate but I’m still deciding between going Cup 2 Connect again or Bridgestone Potenza Sport which I have on my Aston for my next tyre change whenever that happens. Love the Bridgestones. They give the feel of the old Pilot Super Sports with the grip of the PS4S. Apparently the latest Continentals are great too but I haven’t tried them. The Cup 2 Connect are just wonderful 9-10 months of the year here though and like magnets in summer.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by Davil

PS4S are such an old tyre these days. They are more comfort oriented, good grip but have horrible steering feel.

This is just patently untrue. Even the PSS that the PS4S is based on is still a class leading tire 12 years on. The PS4S is overall the best Summer tire for most, and way too much has been made of the slow turn-in (because people are clueless and compare it to 180/200/220/240tw track tires like the Cup2). If it was as loud as the PSS people would be bitching about that (they did, and do), but since it's quieter now they're bitching about comfort.

It seems you can't please any of the people any of the time with regards to tires, but the PS4S is still overwhelmingly the best Summer option for most sport drivers.

However, I'll say again, it's a SUMMER tire, which means it should never be used in temperatures under 42°, and certainly never in temperatures under 32° or micro-cracking will result in an unrepairable changing of the structure and performance of the tire.

[AlpsRider]

Tires are subjective just like cars. What is the best for one person's driving style is not necessarily the best for someone else.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

Tires are subjective just like cars. What is the best for one person's driving style is not necessarily the best for someone else.

This is absolutely true. And I think that in general people are just not aware of the fact one tire can't possibly do everything, so if they're wanting the best performance in all seasons they'll need 3 wheel/tire combos available to install per the pending day, or cut their losses with one and suck it up.

[ThreeStripes]

Ran PSS and now PS4S year round with winter temps between 30*-40* (-1* - 4* c) and have experienced no detrimental effects.

I’m not debating the science, but laughing at the idea that driving to work in 35* weather for a couple months a year on PS4S destroys them or is dangerous as that has not been my real world experience.

[OG Shark]

I do not believe the MP4S suffers from micro-cracking in the cold weather but was rather the Sport Cup 2? If I remember correctly it was really brought to light with a bunch of corvettes that were sitting at Bowling Green during some really low temps and then shipped with cracked tires. Doesn't mean that the MP4S would be a substitute for a winter tire if one is warranted - but they shouldn't degrade during the winter either. The main drawback for them during the winter would potentially be less than optimal grip as they need a bit of heat in them to reach peak performance.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

I do not believe the MP4S suffers from micro-cracking in the cold weather but was rather the Sport Cup 2? If I remember correctly it was really brought to light with a bunch of corvettes that were sitting at Bowling Green during some really low temps and then shipped with cracked tires. Doesn't mean that the MP4S would be a substitute for a winter tire if one is warranted - but they shouldn't degrade during the winter either. The main drawback for them during the winter would potentially be less than optimal grip as they need a bit of heat in them to reach peak performance.

All Summer tires suffer from micro-sipes in temperatures under 42° F, and the colder it gets, the worse the sipes. It's not something you can see (if you can see the cracks you're in real danger), nor is it usually a danger, it just makes the tire response worse for the remainder of the life of the tire. And not worse in Winter, that's obvious, but worse in Summer when you heat it back up. The micro-sipes cause the rubber to move around more, so they lose response, and therefore control. How much control is lost depends on the temps you drove it in and how long it was subjected to that driving, so it varies widely, but they will never be the same after being exposed to cold temps.

All-season tires are designed with completely different compounds that do not harden in lower temperatures, and should always be used if you're driving in under 42° F weather.

IIRC I think you have to go very cold indeed to damage AS tires in Winter. The number is so low that I've forgotten it over the years. I think it changes a bit from brand to brand, and as the tech gets better.

[medphysdave]

How quickly do these issues develop in cold temps?

[NPTM]

I've heard it's pretty fast - two of my buddies are BMW techs and they are very strict about it...Summer tires shouldn't even be STORED in the cold, let alone driven. I assume it was a weight thing and you'd be OK if the tires weren't under load, but the compound just gets sacrificed sub 40 degrees and it leads to irreversible damage, whether on the car or stacked in your shed. I'm no expert here, just regurgitating what "in the know" folks have warned me on recently...pushing me to spend a pretty penny for a winter setup and storing my summer setup in climate controlled area.

Before I bought my CS I bought a comp off my brother...saw one NY winter stored outside and drove it all year. The tires were really badly damaged, looked like hairline fractures all over the them. My wife's M40i was optioned with upgraded wheels and all seasons were not an option. Because I "had" to buy them, I figured, heck, may as well run them for one winter and who cares I have to swap them anyways. Traction was brutal, ride quality was brutal, but I also had two bubbled sidewalls as the integrity of the rubber was compromised. Running all seasons now for her as well for one full year and zero sidewall issues.

Long term, best bet is pony up and get a second set, or run A/S tires.

[Hedoniste]

I am torn between MPSS, MPS4S & MCUP2. I frequently drive my car in moutain (during Spring / Autumn temperatures could be too cold for summer tires). After reading this post I think I will go for PS4S even if I would like to try CUP2 once… (MPSS are not optimal during the hot weather season - very slippery). During winter season I got the factory MPA4 (235 in all corners) because there is no chance to drive safely in my area with summer tires. Rear MPA4 didn’t last more than 2000 miles usually

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by Hedoniste

I am torn between MPSS, MPS4S & MCUP2. I frequently drive my car in moutain (during Spring / Autumn temperatures could be too cold for summer tires). After reading this post I think I will go for PS4S even if I would like to try CUP2 once… (MPSS are not optimal during the hot weather season - very slippery).

I think a lot of people are in a similar situation, they just don't realize that the PS4S will actually out-perform the Cup2 if the Cup2 isn't hot enough (ambient/surface/and or how you're driving). Judging by the car you drive, I'd have both PS4S and Cup2 combo's at the ready. It's literally a half-hour swap and you can fully enjoy the car for that day instead of making a compromise.

Of course, I'd say that because I'm a wheel/tire whore of the first order. lol