[cplay4me]

I'm working on building my 2018 M2 and would love some input. I've spent weeks digesting a lot of information on this forum, thinking about where I want to go, how to phase it out, etc. This process has lead me to a few questions I can't quite find answers to.

Background:

Car: 2018 M2 N55 w/9k miles 6MT

Mods: Non, but have purchased a Wagner evo II comp IC and ER chargepipe & boost pipe. I also have purchased BM3

Goals:

• Maintain reliability and longevity (as much as is reasonably possible) while improving responsiveness and available power. The car needs to be able to standup to hard backroad driving in 100 degree temps, and possibly some track time.
• Improve power over 5500rpm to redline
• Make power more accessible by holding boost better, etc.
• Limit turbo lag
• Be efficient in the build/planning process so that I don't waste money

Misc: I only have access to 92octane fuel.

Questions:

I'm considering a stage 1 turbo upgrade after reading threads from seanwrt and others discussing the success they had in gaining overall power, decreasing turbo spool and improving in the 5500-7k rpm range while maintaining a high-level of reliability.

Question 1: What list of mods would you use along with a stage 1 turbo upgrade if you were planning to run 17-18psi boost in order to first maintain reliability, then underneath that, add as much power and top-end benefit as you can (and meet other goals stated above). Here is my list so far:

• Wagner evo II comp IC
• ER chargepipe, boost pipe
• 1-step colder plugs
• ignition coils
• FTP or similar turbo inlet
• GFB dv+ diverter valve
• Tune
• Active Autowerkes catted DP (may or may not do this)

Question 2: If you were building out and wanted to keep your options open for expansion, would you install a stage 2 turbo (such as pure) and just run the boost lower to start with? Is there a benefit to a stage 2 turbo as far as keeping boost higher in the rpm range?

A mechanic who has installed a lot of pure products recommended I go with the stage 2 turbo even if I only run 18psi boost as I'll be able to run it throughout the power band due to volumetric efficiency vs a stage 1 turbo.

My issue with that is that I'm pretty sure seanwrt stated he was running 18psi boost up to 7k rpms on a dinan stage 1 turbo.

Question 3: If you were to phase this build out knowing you couldn't do much of the work yourself and had to pay for labor. What items would you do together?

Example:

First do IC and chargepipes, add a stage 1 tune and see what you think.

Then, add downpipe, inlet, GFB dv+ and bump to a stage 2 tune, see what you think.

My understanding is if you slowly walked up the modifications this way you'd ultimately waste a ton on labor if you ended up at a turbo upgrade. Of course, if you find you're satisfied at stage 1 ,then that's that. I'm just looking for input on how you might balance this equation.

Thanks for the input!

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by cplay4me

I'm working on building my 2018 M2 and would love some input. I've spent weeks digesting a lot of information on this forum, thinking about where I want to go, how to phase it out, etc. This process has lead me to a few questions I can't quite find answers to.

Background:

Car: 2018 M2 N55 w/9k miles 6MT

Mods: Non, but have purchased a Wagner evo II comp IC and ER chargepipe & boost pipe. I also have purchased BM3

Goals:

• Maintain reliability and longevity (as much as is reasonably possible) while improving responsiveness and available power. The car needs to be able to standup to hard backroad driving in 100 degree temps, and possibly some track time.
• Improve power over 5500rpm to redline
• Make power more accessible by holding boost better, etc.
• Limit turbo lag
• Be efficient in the build/planning process so that I don't waste money

Misc: I only have access to 92octane fuel.

Questions:

I'm considering a stage 1 turbo upgrade after reading threads from seanwrt and others discussing the success they had in gaining overall power, decreasing turbo spool and improving in the 5500-7k rpm range while maintaining a high-level of reliability.

Question 1: What list of mods would you use along with a stage 1 turbo upgrade if you were planning to run 17-18psi boost in order to first maintain reliability, then underneath that, add as much power and top-end benefit as you can (and meet other goals stated above). Here is my list so far:

• Wagner evo II comp IC
• ER chargepipe, boost pipe
• 1-step colder plugs
• ignition coils
• FTP or similar turbo inlet
• GFB dv+ diverter valve
• Tune
• Active Autowerkes catted DP (may or may not do this)

Question 2: If you were building out and wanted to keep your options open for expansion, would you install a stage 2 turbo (such as pure) and just run the boost lower to start with? Is there a benefit to a stage 2 turbo as far as keeping boost higher in the rpm range?

A mechanic who has installed a lot of pure products recommended I go with the stage 2 turbo even if I only run 18psi boost as I'll be able to run it throughout the power band due to volumetric efficiency vs a stage 1 turbo.

My issue with that is that I'm pretty sure seanwrt stated he was running 18psi boost up to 7k rpms on a dinan stage 1 turbo.

Question 3: If you were to phase this build out knowing you couldn't do much of the work yourself and had to pay for labor. What items would you do together?

Example:

First do IC and chargepipes, add a stage 1 tune and see what you think.

Then, add downpipe, inlet, GFB dv+ and bump to a stage 2 tune, see what you think.

My understanding is if you slowly walked up the modifications this way you'd ultimately waste a ton on labor if you ended up at a turbo upgrade. Of course, if you find you're satisfied at stage 1 ,then that's that. I'm just looking for input on how you might balance this equation.

Thanks for the input!

Return the wagner intercooler - it will not be effective in that tempture range.
Consider sticking with the stock plugs on stock gap, and just replace them when they are old
Consider the MST V2 or the CTS inlet - they are actually the biggest inlets with proven gains including a measurable impact on WGDC
Consider the Turbosmart unit. It's preassembled and supposedly offers additional gains over the GFB DV+
Consider a catted downpipe if you care about emissions, smell and can afford it. It absolutely provides tangible gains.

Finally, consider MLIVS (like I have) they will add additional lift to the intake camshaft but require a recalibration to the valvetronic tables by your tuner
(S55)

[cplay4me]

@AmuroRay

Thanks for the input, I appreciate it.

1) What IC would you recommend? What ambient temp do you think the Wagner would handle?

2) MST inlet was on the list and sounds good. I read about some fitment issues though, is that a problem or not (rubbing against other parts, etc.)

3) Have you got a link to the turbosmart unit you're referring to (I'm guessing it's the vr9 diverter you have listed)?

4) Any more data on the realiability of MILVS other than what's in this thread? https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1551896

[skepticalasian]

I was recently in a similar boat. My first M2 was a company lease, then I bought an M2C which was totaled in a freak accident. I recently grabbed a low milage 2017 M2 that I am building.

Hopefully this kind of answers your specific questions, but here's the order in which I am going.

I did BM3 stage 1 out of the box. Not much of a difference as the M2's N55 is already a bit more swift than the regular N55.

First upgrade was a Wagner catted DP, a Dinan intercooler, and a Dinan intake. I went to stage 2 on BM3 after that and decided that while it was nice, a bit more power down the line would be nice. With that in mind, I started future-proofing the car for a Pure Stage 2 turbo down the line.

I replaced all the piping (charge pipe, turbo inlet pipe, boost pipe etc), went with the NGK 1-step colder plugs (BM3 recommends a gap of 22-23), added Nostrum injectors, Precision Raceworks coils, and a Dorch Stage 2 pump. Those last 3 items have toggle settings in the BM3 stage 2 map as well, if you didn't spot those already.

Worth noting that if you're gonna mess with the exhaust, I would do the dp first. I got greedy after that and did the Dinan muffler, but now its got significant more drone and interior panel buzz than stock around 2800-3100 rpm. Its kinda annoying, should have stayed with the stock muffler and maybe had an exhaust shop just swap the tips. The wagner + Dinan setup sounds great at WOT, but is a little loud for my old ears at times. Plus the interior sounds make me think I'm back in the WRX I had in my 20s.

This coming spring, I'll do the big turbo and a new diverter valve with a custom tune from my local race shop and I should be "done" on the performance side.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by cplay4me

@AmuroRay

Thanks for the input, I appreciate it.

1) What IC would you recommend? What ambient temp do you think the Wagner would handle?

A race intercooler. There just isn't a good reason to go smaller, especially when you factor you higher ambient temperatures, and usage.

VRSF, BMS, Wagner Evo 3 are all should to keep temperatures in within 20F of ambient. The Evo 2 (and the Dinan as mentioned by another user) is barely up to the task of Stage 2 in 75F weather. If you have time, you can read through the intercooler thread starting at page...34?

Originally Posted by cplay4me

2) MST inlet was on the list and sounds good. I read about some fitment issues though, is that a problem or not (rubbing against other parts, etc.)

I didn't install my inlet and DV, I had a shop do it at the same time. He wasn't a BMW expert (just a general mechanic) and he stated that it wasn't too bad. I have a M235I so some of the chassis bracing may be different, but I don't see how that would impact the fitment of the inlet.

Originally Posted by cplay4me

3) Have you got a link to the turbosmart unit you're referring to (I'm guessing it's the vr9 diverter you have listed)?

I have the VR9 which is for the M235i - you will need the VR11

Product:
https://x-ph.com/m2-n55-6/

3t3p Dyno of the inlet, Diverter and intercooler (page 5)
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...ght=inlet+dyno

Originally Posted by cplay4me

4) Any more data on the realiability of MILVS other than what's in this thread? https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1551896

Reliability? I had them on my previous car, and many people run them on N52s (similar head design as the N55) with no issues. And there shouldn't because its actually a factor part that has been machined.

[AmuroRay]

I get a lot of flack for saying this, but I’ll do it. Don’t buy Dinan, and I would avoid Wagner.

Not saying they are ‘bad’ but plenty of cheaper and ‘better’ options exist. The Dinan intake caused weird fuel trims for some users (and indicated it lost power) and on my car caused odd throttle behavior. The stock M2 box with a dry flow filter has been great. If I had to get an intake, it would be the CTS, which (according to logs) offered additional flow over the stock air box/AFE filter and did not cause any CEL which other intakes might.

The Wagner Downpipe is expensive in comparison to other Catted Downpipes, but does NOT offer a CEL guarantee. Why pay almost $1,000 for what amounts to the same performance as a $300 downpipe?

I would consider a HPFP if you want to get a custom tune or are planning a larger turbo. detroitm2 may have the hookup on the Nostrum pump.

Even though I went one step colder, it wasn't necessary. And I left them at factory gap. I would avoid making changes to the sparkplugs unless you have an issue - stock work flawlessly for the majority of people, and I've noticed (from observation) a lot of people who went with tighter gapping had issues.

Finally, if you want to upgrade your coils - consider ELDOR. They are superior to all the other OEM brands. If you want an even bigger upgrade, consider Nexsys Motorsports:

https://nexsysmotorsport.com/n-s55-i...l-upgrade-kit/

(I don't think I can link to another forum, but I'll try)
https://*********************/thread...rade-kit.7800/

That being said, I don't know if there is a again for most of us - but the option is there.

[cplay4me]

AmuroRay

Nice, I appreciate the further details.

I read a ton on IC's and was originally planning to stop at stage 2, which is why I went wagner. I read the fitment was perfect where almost every other IC and some reports of issues or cutting required (if if not really a big deal). I was looking for something solid that would fit as close to stock as possible.

I'll consider change that if I do end up pushing further up the power specture.

I'm curious about the MILVS -- did you ever get dyno info? https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1724885&page=2

Also, do you have any issues with Dinan stage 1 turbo? It sounded like from reading seanWRT ' s build thread from years ago that he actually found it to be a solid choice--slighly faster spool while able to achieve 17-18psi boost up to 7k rpms with a tune and no additional fueling.

After your responses, I'm now taking a step back and re-thinking where I'd really like to go with this and at what cost.

I'd still love more input from others on my original post.

skepticalasian

Thanks for the input as well. How do you like those coils and how is the ride compared to stock?

[skepticalasian]

cplay4me the PR coils are ignition coils (link), sorry if that was confusing.

FWIW, I'm on the Dinan height adjustable kit, and its fine. I'll probably go KW with camber plates in the future. I've also been looking at Air cups so I can run a really low coilover suspension but not wreck the front of the car while driving around town. That is definitely just a vanity mod, I don't need more suspension than I already have haha.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by skepticalasian

cplay4me the PR coils are ignition coils (link), sorry if that was confusing.

FWIW, I'm on the Dinan height adjustable kit, and its fine. I'll probably go KW with camber plates in the future. I've also been looking at Air cups so I can run a really low coilover suspension but not wreck the front of the car while driving around town. That is definitely just a vanity mod, I don't need more suspension than I already have haha.

I would do the Nexysis system which uses the Eldor coils from the B58 instead of the PR kit. The B58 coils are superior to all the other coils, including the S55, N54 and even the PR and factory Eldor (which are pretty good)

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by cplay4me

I'm working on building my 2018 M2 and would love some input.

I was in the same boat as you, but after doing the math, I decided just to stick to a pro-tuned Stage 2, as it will cost me $2300 vs Stage 3 (upgrade turbo and all the fixings) $14,000...and it's not all that different. So unless you're using it for competition, it's a massive law of diminishing returns.

Subscribed to see how it goes though!

[Wolfman’s Brother]

Re: Question 2

Upgrade turbos once. Check out this thread as you mentioned you’re octane limited.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1765633

[-Eidos]

What kind of fuel do you have access to?

[6speed_M2]

If you're looking to track/push the car hard, I'd look into a pro tune. Tell your tuner your goals so they can provide a tune more suitable for your driving needs. I think other OTS maps have such a massive initial torque dump under 4.5k that it makes the car suffer more in the higher rpm's with heat soak.

I've never tracked my car with any OTS map like this so this is purely speculation on my end.

A pure turbo would help with the higher rpm's. Definitely an expensive option but I'd imagine it's worth it for consistent track driving.

With all the money you'll spend on brakes, tires, oil, track days and possibly track insurance, the bills are going to stack up pretty high anyways.

Personally, I would go with any stage 3 intercooler (my favorite is Wagner) & a pure turbo to match. As far as high flow cats, I'm running the HJS 300. The fabspeed one is also a great option but I opted for the HJS.

Best of luck with the build! Enjoy.

[6speed_M2]

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

I was in the same boat as you, but after doing the math, I decided just to stick to a pro-tuned Stage 2, as it will cost me $2300 vs Stage 3 (upgrade turbo and all the fixings) $14,000...and it's not all that different. So unless you're using it for competition, it's a massive law of diminishing returns.

Subscribed to see how it goes though!

The main difference would be unlocked with either race gas or ethanol fuel. Depending on which turbo you use, you could get another 80-150whp over the stage 2 set up.

I'm not sure how usable that power would be for the track because of heat soak, but it would be fun for straight line acceleration. I would love to do a 2nd-3rd-4th-5th in a 500-600whp M2 with a manual transmission. Call me crazy but that sounds like a fun time

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by 6speed_M2

The main difference would be unlocked with either race gas or ethanol fuel. Depending on which turbo you use, you could get another 80-150whp over the stage 2 set up.

I'm not sure how usable that power would be for the track because of heat soak, but it would be fun for straight line acceleration. I would love to do a 2nd-3rd-4th-5th in a 500-600whp M2 with a manual transmission. Call me crazy but that sounds like a fun time

With dedicated Summer tires the car has traction issues even with stock power. At basic Stage 2 it's hilarious. 600 whp on the street is just an exercise in tire killing...and you'll need to run comp tires for sure.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Good list OP, the Wagner EVO II is a good efficient intercooler. Also significantly lighter than the competition. I think it's a great option.

You do have larger intercoolers available with high-density cores. These intercoolers do better in terms of temp control but are heavier.

If you are going to go with a larger core, consider BMS race, MAD 7" High density or the Wagner EVO III.

[cplay4me]

skepticalasian ahhhh gotcha. Thanks for clarifying re: coils.

VisualEcho That's part of what I'm wrestling with. I'm looking at the car and thinking "how do I efficiently address weak points", less "how do i grab as much power or torque punch as I can".

I am a big fan of keeping the character of a car (what makes it fun/special to me), while looking to address weak spots if possible. From my perspective, the torque punch lower down is a big part of the character and what makes the care feel alive. That being said, if I could address the drop up top and actually make the car faster for a reasonable sum, that would be awesome.

I'm starting to wonder if the build list should look more like:

IC
Chargepipes + Boost pipes
Tune
Turbo inlet
Diverter Valve
Stage 2 turbo, but running at ~17-18psi -- the only downside I see here is loosing spool. SeanWRT said in one of his old stage 1 turbo posts that he was able to get 18psi on a dinan stage1 turbo up to 7krpm reliably while getting spool 200-300rpm faster than stock. That seems like a great fit to me, and the only downside would be you've limited your potential...but honestly..if I wanted a big hp car, I wouldn't have bought an n55 m2.

If this list can be done while MAINTAINING RELIABILITY for ~$5k and provide the punch low while opening the top AND allow headroom for the future, that might make sense to me. Otherwise, I might end up where you are or even lower to be honest.

@wolfman'sbrother - that's my thinking--do the right thing the first time and just run lower boost if desired.

@-edios I only have access to 92 octane.

6speed_M2 Appreciate the input, thanks!

@mike@x-ph.com -- Appreciate the input!

[Wolfman’s Brother]

Originally Posted by cplay4me

That being said, if I could address the drop up top and actually make the car faster for a reasonable sum, that would be awesome.

I’m currently running BM3 stage 2 OTS 91 octane map with upgraded IC, DP, and Charge Pipe. The biggest change you get going from stock to “FBO” with a Stage2 tune is the increased torque under 4500 and how it pulls up top to redline.

Much of the power drop off up top you’re noticing when you’re stock is due to the undersized factory IC and the car pulling timing as it struggles to keep IATs down.

In other words while turbo choice will certainly impact spool and your power curve, you’re going to see better power from 4750-6750 RPM as compared to stock with just an IC and a tune so don’t sweat that piece too much.

[6speed_M2]

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

With dedicated Summer tires the car has traction issues even with stock power. At basic Stage 2 it's hilarious. 600 whp on the street is just an exercise in tire killing...and you'll need to run comp tires for sure.

The stock power levels are solid for canyon/track driving. Many stock M2's (N55) I've seen put down around 330whp & 370wtq.

My current tune, which was made to withstand the heat of track driving (although I haven't tracked it thus far) is putting down around 380whp & 380wtq on 91 octane. Essentially the same as stock, without the dip in the higher rpms.

With the exception of launching (I can't recall launching it with this tune) my car was able to put down the 445whp & 500wtq consistently in the straight line from the BM3 E30+ tune. 2nd gear rolls & beyond were fine for me with traction off. Launching it can be more tricky. You need perfect weather & fresh tires to get a productive launch.

Anything beyond 500wtq would need a semi slick tire. I'm currently running a 285/35 rear tire (pilot 4S) on 18's.

With the stock turbo I'm putting down around 420whp/420wtq on an ethanol blend with a flex fuel sensor (lowered numbers than most to prevent heat soak). I don't canyon the car often but even when I do I'm a very mild canyon driver so the extra power doesn't affect me much. Smooth is my definition of fast so I don't push the car to its extremes. Easy does it for me.

For the straight line, it's quick for sure. Puts down the power well on a launch but I've always itched for more power. With the pure stage 2 on the Wagner evo II comp intercooler + high flow cat, I've seen a similar set up to mine put down 500whp & 500wtq all the way to redline. That is goals for me!!

I think that would be enough power to get the car dancing in 2nd gear everytime & leave me begging for another chance to floor the car & crack a smile

[cplay4me]

Originally Posted by Wolfman’s Brother

I’m currently running BM3 stage 2 OTS 91 octane map with upgraded IC, DP, and Charge Pipe. The biggest change you get going from stock to “FBO” with a Stage2 tune is the increased torque under 4500 and how it pulls up top to redline.

Much of the power drop off up top you’re noticing when you’re stock is due to the undersized factory IC and the car pulling timing as it struggles to keep IATs down.

In other words while turbo choice will certainly impact spool and your power curve, you’re going to see better power from 4750-6750 RPM as compared to stock with just an IC and a tune so don’t sweat that piece too much.

@wolfman'sbrother This is great feedback, thanks. Would you bother with a stage 1 tune + IC or would you just go FBO?

6speed_M2 Do you mind sharing a parts list on your current build?

Thanks!

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by 6speed_M2

My current tune, which was made to withstand the heat of track driving (although I haven't tracked it thus far) is putting down around 380whp & 380wtq on 91 octane. Essentially the same as stock, without the dip in the higher rpms.

With the exception of launching (I can't recall launching it with this tune) my car was able to put down the 445whp & 500wtq consistently in the straight line from the BM3 E30+ tune.

With the stock turbo I'm putting down around 420whp/420wtq on an ethanol blend with a flex fuel sensor (lowered numbers than most to prevent heat soak).

My question is; how much money do you have in your power modifications.

Anyone can get 500 whp easily with the N55 M2, but at what cost?

For reference, standard Stage 2 (CDP/IC/CP/BM3) is roughly $2500

[AmuroRay]

I’m just going to repeat my warning on the Evo 2 here. It’s adequate for Stage2, it’s not adequate for a PS2 or Stage 2+. Keep in mind per Wagner, the Performance 2 (which they no longer sell) cooled better.

Per Wagner’s own test, the difference between their intercoolers was 1hp - so none of them are out flowing another to any real objective benefit.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1862698

Take a look at this thread - good idea on how the Wagner holds up (and this is the ‘better’ performance model)

I would also recommend MHD over BM3. It’s cheaper, and if you go with a custom tune, that price difference can go towards the tune. It’s also load based and more ‘consistent’ compared to BM3. I have one from Bob at Stage FP (formerly the tuner at BPC) and I love it - solid pull towards redline, unlike the OTS (off the shelf) tunes from BM3/MHD which peak around 5500, and fall off by 6000RPM.

Otherwise it’s your preference.