[feconi]

Originally Posted by AlpinewhiteM2C

I was going to try 270/30/19 fronts and 305/30/19 rears but the rears are on backorder until mid June . I decided to try the 270/30/19 front/ 275/35/19 rear set up, same as @Dean_Clevername. I also have a Hotchkis front bar so hopefully that helps keep the rear in line during corner exit since the M2C has a bit more low end torque than the OGM2s.

Good suggestion, I noticed the backorder too and was leaning to the 275/305 for M2C. Any thoughts on the 265/35 and 295/35 RT660 setup? Too tall of tire? I’m happy with the 265/35 & 285/35 RE-71 setup but the tires have a month of events left at most. Like the idea of a bit more stagger as I’m also seeing the rear step out a lot on corner exit with my current setup (Whiteline bar, middle setting).

[JustAWhisper]

Originally Posted by Dean_Clevername

Vegas CT BS lineup looked great, was eyeing the results last night. Seems like Supra/M2/M2C all have a shot this year. Will just come down to driver and prep.

Thanks for the thoughts on sways, mirrors my own experience in prior cars with dynamic camber loss. Will have to just swap it on and try it out. I definitely feel this car doesn't need more understeer, but transitional response will be crucial if Im able to register for the Finger Lakes Champ Tour. From videos it seems like that event is heavy on transitions. Shocks might be the best answer to be honest. You can valve them to give them good transitional response without sacrificing grip or overall balance. Or so Strano says, I know nothing of this sort of thing haha. Not a lot of off the shelf shocks available for the OG M2. Anyone know if the shock mounts are the same as other 2 series or are they from the F80?

FWIW locally I've had a couple events with Danny Kao in his 21 Supra (technically AS, but I'm not sure why it's bumped up vs the 20) on A052 (275 square). Both cars stock otherwise and I think the M2 has a slight edge TBH. Just for fun here they are side by side. I was late and picked up a +1 in the final slalom, but data says it actually cost me .2 from there through the finish vs my prior run so I still think my raw vs his clean run is an ok comparison.

The 21 Supra is in AS because it has about 50 more horsepower than the 2020 model. Toyota initially released with a lower horsepower number probably due to an agreement with BMW to not undercut the more expensive Z4, but since both cars are attracting completely different buyers it seems Toyota got permission to release with a higher number for 2021. The engine is exactly the same, but there does appear to be a different tune as C&D dyno'd both cars back to back and got a 43 hp difference.

As far as competitiveness between the two, it's well within driver noise. The Supra has the exact same front suspension and only a slightly modified rear suspension from the M2. It has slightly less weight and probably similar or slightly better rigidity. The 2020 with slightly less power (but also less turbo lag) is probably a good fit for BS. The 2021 with both less weight and more power is probably a good fit for AS.

[AlpinewhiteM2C]

Originally Posted by feconi

Good suggestion, I noticed the backorder too and was leaning to the 275/305 for M2C. Any thoughts on the 265/35 and 295/35 RT660 setup? Too tall of tire? I’m happy with the 265/35 & 285/35 RE-71 setup but the tires have a month of events left at most. Like the idea of a bit more stagger as I’m also seeing the rear step out a lot on corner exit with my current setup (Whiteline bar, middle setting).

My buddy tried 295/35/19 in the rear and with stock camber it rubbed, thus the reason I'm going with 275s. I'm also getting the rear to step out with my 265/285 RE71r and Hotchkis bar set up when I'm too early/ not smooth with the gas on exit. I'm working on being smoother overall so perhaps running 275s will help reinforce this for me.

[CSBM5]

Has anyone driven the RT660 275/30-19 and 305/30-19 setup? Does the 305 feel sloppy on transitions in the rear? It's pinched down a bit (wheel width spec is 10.5-11.5) to fit on a 10" wheel, but perhaps it's sidewalls are stiff enough to not be too bad. What about mounting it on a 10" wheel; issues? Similarly, how does the 275/30-19 feel up front on a 9" wheel?

[AlpinewhiteM2C]

Originally Posted by Dean_Clevername

Shocks might be the best answer to be honest. You can valve them to give them good transitional response without sacrificing grip or overall balance. Or so Strano says, I know nothing of this sort of thing haha. Not a lot of off the shelf shocks available for the OG M2. Anyone know if the shock mounts are the same as other 2 series or are they from the F80?

An OGM2 is using the rear M performance dual adjustable shocks that comes with the coilover kit. He said the stiffer rear shocks countered the front swaybar and helps the car rotate. He seems to know what he's doing as he was second in OPAX again this past weekend. His set up is:

Front Dinan bar
18x9 and 18x10 Apex EC7-Rs
295 A052s all around
M Performance rear shocks

[Rumbloki]

Originally Posted by Dean_Clevername

FWIW locally I've had a couple events with Danny Kao in his 21 Supra (technically AS, but I'm not sure why it's bumped up vs the 20) on A052 (275 square). Both cars stock otherwise and I think the M2 has a slight edge TBH. Just for fun here they are side by side. I was late and picked up a +1 in the final slalom, but data says it actually cost me .2 from there through the finish vs my prior run so I still think my raw vs his clean run is an ok comparison.

Cool video. Thanks.

[Rumbloki]

Originally Posted by JustAWhisper

Toyota initially released with a lower horsepower number probably due to an agreement with BMW to not undercut the more expensive Z4, but since both cars are attracting completely different buyers it seems Toyota got permission to release with a higher number for 2021. The engine is exactly the same, but there does appear to be a different tune as C&D dyno'd both cars back to back and got a 43 hp difference.

2020 has 2 port cylinder head, while 2021 has 6 port cylinder head. This is on the exhaust side.

Edit: Sorry link broke. Pic added.

[Thevesh]

Originally Posted by AlpinewhiteM2C

An OGM2 is using the rear M performance dual adjustable shocks that comes with the coilover kit. He said the stiffer rear shocks countered the front swaybar and helps the car rotate. He seems to know what he's doing as he was second in OPAX again this past weekend. His set up is:

Front Dinan bar
18x9 and 18x10 Apex EC7-Rs
295 A052s all around
M Performance rear shocks

295 on 18x9 is simply too much. The tire becomes distorted by the edges and he looses the grip effect for front he was craving for in the first place. A052 are wider in design anyhow. He should go max 265 for 9". Or simply fit 10". 😉👍

[feconi]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

Has anyone driven the RT660 275/30-19 and 305/30-19 setup? Does the 305 feel sloppy on transitions in the rear? It's pinched down a bit (wheel width spec is 10.5-11.5) to fit on a 10" wheel, but perhaps it's sidewalls are stiff enough to not be too bad. What about mounting it on a 10" wheel; issues? Similarly, how does the 275/30-19 feel up front on a 9" wheel?

I’d like to know thoughts on this too. In the C7 Corvette world I was in before there were several folks running 305 RE71s on the stock 10” rear with good results, although actually getting the tire mounted on the wheel was a challenge. Curious how RT660s take to pinching on a 10” wheel.

[feconi]

Originally Posted by AlpinewhiteM2C

My buddy tried 295/35/19 in the rear and with stock camber it rubbed, thus the reason I'm going with 275s. I'm also getting the rear to step out with my 265/285 RE71r and Hotchkis bar set up when I'm too early/ not smooth with the gas on exit. I'm working on being smoother overall so perhaps running 275s will help reinforce this for me.

Thanks for the info. Curious how bad the rubbing was and any thoughts if it could be mitigated with more rear camber. I’m sure the tail happy behavior I’m seeing is largely driver induced but I’ll feel more confident on a staggered setup and ideally would like the 30mm stagger of a 275/305 or 265/295.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by Thevesh

295 on 18x9 is simply too much. The tire becomes distorted by the edges and he looses the grip effect for front he was craving for in the first place. A052 are wider in design anyhow. He should go max 265 for 9". Or simply fit 10". ����

This is in SCCA street tire B-street class competition, and wheel widths are limited to the stock sizes (9", 10"), so competitors often squeeze big tires onto wheels a bit narrow for them since the benefits, on course, outweigh the cons. Clearly few would want to drive such on the street or a track event, but on an autocross or ProSolo course, it works.

I still remember a local autox when national ProSolo winner, multiple trophy winner at nationals and prosolos, the late Jim Feinberg with his Acura Integra Type R showed up with 275 Hoosiers on the 6" wheels up front (back when street class allowed use of DOT R-compound tires). I forget what the back tire size was, 245s I think, but even though sloppy in transitions, it was fast on course overall. Here's to Jim -- a great guy, wonderful to be around, and an incredible driver and friend.

[JustAWhisper]

Originally Posted by Rumbloki

2020 has 2 port cylinder head, while 2021 has 6 port cylinder head. This is on the exhaust side.

Edit: Sorry link broke. Pic added.

Didn't know that! Cool stuff.

[AlpinewhiteM2C]

Originally Posted by feconi

Thanks for the info. Curious how bad the rubbing was and any thoughts if it could be mitigated with more rear camber. I’m sure the tail happy behavior I’m seeing is largely driver induced but I’ll feel more confident on a staggered setup and ideally would like the 30mm stagger of a 275/305 or 265/295.

He added more camber and it reduced, but not eliminated rubbing on hard turns. He doesn't have a front swaybar so perhaps having a bar will reduce some roll, therefore help eliminate rubbing.

[JustAWhisper]

Originally Posted by feconi

Thanks for the info. Curious how bad the rubbing was and any thoughts if it could be mitigated with more rear camber. I’m sure the tail happy behavior I’m seeing is largely driver induced but I’ll feel more confident on a staggered setup and ideally would like the 30mm stagger of a 275/305 or 265/295.

I'm running 295/35R19 Yoko's in the rear and I only get rubbing when going over a bump or dip fast on the street. No issues on course at autocross. I run the 265 up front because I don't like driving with heavily pinched fronts. It destroys steering feel and I honestly don't think it buys you much if any speed, and it costs a lot more to boot.

[digitalseance]

In my '18 LCI, I'm currently running 18in Apex EC7s with 295 A052s and I easily picked up a second over the 19" RE71s. However, I've had to change my driving style to match the tire characteristics.

For those that have ran slicks before, the Yok's are sloppy, like running V710s. The RE71Rs were crisp, like a hoosier. From what I'm told, the Falkens are somewhere in between but more like an RE71 than an A052.

The Supra at the tour ran A052s in the rear and the Falkens in the front. Since there's no tire contingencies anymore, this seems to be the prefered setup. The Supra was not alone in that combo, most class winners at Dixie were on Falkens or a mixed setup (ie Yoks in the rear).

From my personal experience, for the RE71rs, I ran 265/35/19 in the front and 305/30/19 in the rear. Never rubbed. Now with the 18in 295 A052s and a 5mm front spacer, I'm still not rubbing.


Curious if anyone else, other than me, has run into the fragile rear control arms? I spun into some wet grass at about 10mph and later found out it bent the drivers rear lower control arm just enough to prevent an aggressive alignment with stock suspension.

Also, has anyone had experience with the Bilsten B6 HD for the M2?



Call me a ricer, but I think the EC7s in white look darn good.

[Wisco M3]

Originally Posted by digitalseance

In my '18 LCI, I'm currently running 18in Apex EC7s with 295 A052s and I easily picked up a second over the 19" RE71s. However, I've had to change my driving style to match the tire characteristics.

For those that have ran slicks before, the Yok's are sloppy, like running V710s. The RE71Rs were crisp, like a hoosier. From what I'm told, the Falkens are somewhere in between but more like an RE71 than an A052.

The Supra at the tour ran A052s in the rear and the Falkens in the front. Since there's no tire contingencies anymore, this seems to be the prefered setup. The Supra was not alone in that combo, most class winners at Dixie were on Falkens or a mixed setup (ie Yoks in the rear).

From my personal experience, for the RE71rs, I ran 265/35/19 in the front and 305/30/19 in the rear. Never rubbed. Now with the 18in 295 A052s and a 5mm front spacer, I'm still not rubbing.


Curious if anyone else, other than me, has run into the fragile rear control arms? I spun into some wet grass at about 10mph and later found out it bent the drivers rear lower control arm just enough to prevent an aggressive alignment with stock suspension.

Also, has anyone had experience with the Bilsten B6 HD for the M2?



Call me a ricer, but I think the EC7s in white look darn good.

The white does look great. Did you paint them, powder coat them, or something else? I've got a square set of EC-7's that I really want to go Gold with on my AW OGM2.

[digitalseance]

Originally Posted by Wisco M3

The white does look great. Did you paint them, powder coat them, or something else? I've got a square set of EC-7's that I really want to go Gold with on my AW OGM2.

Powder coated, "wheel white" with 60% sheen. I purchased used, three were silver and the fourth was grey. Had the local powder coating place coat them then applied a ceramic coating. The ceramic is invaluable and worth the money. Pull up to quarter car wash, spray wheels, drive 1mi at 40mph and they're ready for a show. Perfect for two day events like the NTs.

[Dean_Clevername]

Originally Posted by digitalseance

Curious if anyone else, other than me, has run into the fragile rear control arms? I spun into some wet grass at about 10mph and later found out it bent the drivers rear lower control arm just enough to prevent an aggressive alignment with stock suspension.

Also, has anyone had experience with the Bilsten B6 HD for the M2?



Call me a ricer, but I think the EC7s in white look darn good.

Wow, very surprising to hear about that LCA. I'd think they'd be more than stout enough for that kind of excursion, but strange things happen I guess. What kind of alignment do you run?

[Multimodal]

Is the M2C a competitive car in B-Street? I saw the highest ranked M2C in 2019 was Rob Beaker at 68th in AS which would have been 49th in BS. The highest ranked OG M2 was Jay Balducci at 5th in BS.

I assume anything can be competitive at the local level where it's more about driver. And I am confident this is all academic for me because I don't claim to be a great driver.

Just trying to inform my decision between an M2C and a new M3...

[JustAWhisper]

I would say yes. No one who was competitive drove an M2C at Nats in 2019 because everyone already knew it was DOA in AS. M2C is a lot more popular now that it's in BS, and I expect there will be several at Nats this year.

As far as result so far, there is a competitively driven M2C and OG M2 in the southwest part of the country, and both were at the Las Vegas and Fontana tours. Unfortunately, they were on different tires, and all we've learned for sure is that Falkens work better at Las Vegas and Yokos work better at Fontana.

The Toyota Supra is in the mix now and Caymans are still good. My sense is that they're all pretty competitive with the Supra probably having a marginal edge. We'll see how Nats goes. If the Supra dominates it will probably be moved to AS as I doubt the SEB will want a single year of a car to be the "it" car in a class.

[Dean_Clevername]

Originally Posted by Mr. Maboomba

Just trying to inform my decision between an M2C and a new M3...

Don't forget the flipside, afaik the new M3/4 isn't classed yet. Who knows if it lands somewhere it can be competitive.

The M2C is defn not a dog in BS and since it was already demoted from AS, I think you can be pretty assured that it will be there for quite some time. But who knows what might come to market and end up in BS over the next 2-3y. 2021 Mustang Mach 1 is in BS, and not slow.

[digitalseance]

Originally Posted by Dean_Clevername

Wow, very surprising to hear about that LCA. I'd think they'd be more than stout enough for that kind of excursion, but strange things happen I guess. What kind of alignment do you run?

Basically stock since that happened. Ideally 2* up front and 1.7* in rear but we'll see in a few months how that pans out.