[Boostedphil698]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

9 out of 10 people wouldn't really know the difference

Facts right here. I'm excited to get mine but may have to hold off. Some drove over a piece of steel or a rock this morning and flew into my car. Have two big paint chips to fix on my daily now.

[CalAcacian]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

Of course it is bad business

It's a conflict that's not worth instigating

It's important not to bite the hand that actually feeds you

Except customers don't really feed the dealership. Especially not enthusiast customers like us. We're a minority of their market.

Dealerships are primarily paid to perform warranty work by BMW. So risking that relationship by continuing to provide warranty coverage on cars that BMW NA doesn't want them to is bad business for them on the whole.

Yes, I appreciate my SA being more mod friendly, but it's not how dealerships function as business units.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by CalAcacian

Except customers don't really feed the dealership. Especially not enthusiast customers like us. We're a minority of their market.

Dealerships are primarily paid to perform warranty work by BMW. So risking that relationship by continuing to provide warranty coverage on cars that BMW NA doesn't want them to is bad business for them on the whole.

Yes, I appreciate my SA being more mod friendly, but it's not how dealerships function as business units.

Well I feed them

I send them customers all the time

Regardless I understand your point but hopefully you can understand mine

[Slowphiveo]

I dont own the car anymore...but this was my 2018 M2 with the Fabspeed catted downpipe and their muffler bypass exhaust....was actually videoed at Fabspeed after they finished the install. Never had a CEL or an issue with emissions inspection in PA at least.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Slowphiveo

I dont own the car anymore...but this was my 2018 M2 with the Fabspeed catted downpipe and their muffler bypass exhaust....was actually videoed at Fabspeed after they finished the install. Never had a CEL or an issue with emissions inspection in PA at least.

Sounds mean

Federal law recognizes that each state should lead in carrying out their own form of emission testing because pollution control problems often require special understanding of local industries, geography, housing patterns, ect.

However, each individual state are not allowed to have a weaker pollution controls than the national minimum criteria codified by the Environment Protection Agency. Point being, doesn't matter what state you are in, if one installs a modified smog control device, such as a sports cat, which circumvents set emission standards and it becomes noticeable by I guess the wrong person, the owner can run into problems.

A franchise dealers could possible get fined or shut down if they don't comply with the EPA ruling, hence the reason they frown upon aftermarket downpipes and it's not because they want to be snitch-ass bitches, as some are lead to believe.

Personally, I don't care either way, just a little FYI for fellow members.

[Boostedphil698]

Originally Posted by Poochie

Sounds mean

Federal law recognizes that each state should lead in carrying out their own form of emission testing because pollution control problems often require special understanding of local industries, geography, housing patterns, ect.

However, each individual state are not allowed to have a weaker pollution controls than the national minimum criteria codified by the Environment Protection Agency. Point being, doesn't matter what state you are in, if one installs a modified smog control device, such as a sports cat, which circumvents set emission standards and it becomes noticeable by I guess the wrong person, the owner can run into problems.

A franchise dealers could possible get fined or shut down if they don't comply with the EPA ruling, hence the reason they frown upon aftermarket downpipes and it's not because they want to be snitch-ass bitches, as some are lead to believe.

Personally, I don't care either way, just a little FYI for fellow members.

Let's think about it though. If I hypothetically put the Fabspeed downpipe on or the Active Autowerke dp on, and my car goes through emissions here in PA and I pass, did I really install a defeat device?

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by CalAcacian

Yes, I appreciate my SA being more mod friendly, but it's not how dealerships function as business units.

Yes, it is. I was in that industry for many years, and I can tell you that first, Sales, Service, and Parts are all 3 separate businesses under one roof, and second, they all work off of customer happiness. Everything is customer happiness. The question isn't whether or not you'll need to go to bat for your customer, but when, and how brightly you shine in doing so.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Boostedphil698

Let's think about it though. If I hypothetically put the Fabspeed downpipe on or the Active Autowerke dp on, and my car goes through emissions here in PA and I pass, did I really install a defeat device?

Umm, yea.

The physical act of removing the OEM cat and replacing it with a downpipe with less filtration, working around the set standards for pollutant output is the violation.

I bet you that any tech that has half a brain and actually cares, can determine if the OEM cat was replaced by merely looking it at and also by the noxious smell, which would be filling his service bay.

FS or AA downpipe bypasses the emission check set standards because the places a spacer between the flow of exhaust gases and the two O2 sensors, tricking the system into interpreting a lean reading and assume it's still running the stock cat filtration, hence, emission compliant.

However, that form of circumvention is required for aftermarket downpipe to not trigger a CEL, as I guess it does. Had it been performing the correct amount of filtration, physical deception wouldn't be necessary.

[Boostedphil698]

Originally Posted by Poochie

Umm, yea.

The physical act of removing the OEM cat and replacing it with a downpipe with less filtration, working around the set standards for pollutant output is the violation.

I bet you that any tech that has half a brain and actually cares, can determine if the OEM cat was replaced by merely looking it at and also by the noxious smell, which would be filling his service bay.

FS or AA downpipe bypasses the emission check set standards because the places a spacer between the flow of exhaust gases and the two O2 sensors, tricking the system into interpreting a lean reading and assume it's still running the stock cat filtration, hence, emission compliant.

However, that form of circumvention is required for aftermarket downpipe to not trigger a CEL, as I guess it does. Had it been performing the correct amount of filtration, physical deception wouldn't be necessary.

There is no spacers in either of those cats. In addition, the AA dp is EPA registered and comes with a 5 year or 50000 mile warranty. They even just came out with EPA registered high flow dp's for the S55.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Boostedphil698

There is no spacers in either of those cats. In addition, the AA dp is EPA registered and comes with a 5 year or 50000 mile warranty. They even just came out with EPA registered high flow dp's for the S55.

Hmm.. I know factually all of what you stated is not true but how about this; why don't you just show me any kind of tangible proof of what you claimed and just shut me up..

I'll patiently wait..

https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=24550473

[Boostedphil698]

Originally Posted by Poochie

Hmm.. I know factually all of what you stated is not true but how about this; why don't you just show me any kind of tangible proof of what you claimed and just shut me up..

I'll patiently wait..

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Yeah Fabspeed was at one point putting spacers to cheat but they removed them after they realized that the HJS cats were doing the job. They should have realized this through testing...... Here's both links to the pictures in case they are fuzzy https://store.activeautowerke.com/co...atted-downpipe

https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show...1137153&page=5

[Boostedphil698]

Originally Posted by Poochie

I can't read what you posted but I Googled "G-Sport" or "GESI" cats and although it's the first time I heard about them, they do indeed carry EPA certified products, which is good for them, I guess..

However, that has nothing to do with Fabspeed or AA aftermarket cats being also EPA compliant, which is the subject at hand. You may as well as link some photos of actual kittens because it proves nothing.

Here's a link to the AA downpipe that literally says its EPA approved https://store.activeautowerke.com/co...atted-downpipe

Fabspeed post: https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show...1137153&page=5

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by Poochie

I bet you that any tech that has half a brain and actually cares, can determine if the OEM cat was replaced by the noxious smell, which would be filling his service bay.

It's interesting that you're the second person that has mentioned this, yet with my FSC I didn't notice any difference at all. No extra power, no smell, maybe I got a normal cat with a Fabspeed logo. lol

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Boostedphil698

Here's a link to the AA downpipe that literally says its EPA approved https://store.activeautowerke.com/co...atted-downpipe

Yea, so they have a version of a downpipe that's supposedly EPA certified but still can't meet CARB requirements, which the OEM cat does - sounds fishy, to say the least.

They also have an ambiguous disclaimer on their website (see below), which sounds like they are performing the same low cell/ spacer trickery, as the other sports cats available but to a lesser extent.

Look bro, I'm not going to keep arguing the point, If your going to run an aftermarket downpipe, catted or catless, you need to just accept the fact that they are all illegal.

You ever wonder why BMW AG doesn't offer an "M Performance Sports Cats" in order to eke out a few horses or to compete with the aftermarket brands? It's because it would never meet EPA compliance and they have a lot more to lose than some of these aftermarket companies that operate in the fringes of the internet, with no accountability.

.

[Boostedphil698]

Originally Posted by Poochie

Yea, so they have a version of a downpipe that's supposedly EPA certified but still can't meet CARB requirements, which the OEM cat does, sounds fishy, to say the least.

They also have an ambiguous disclaimer on their website (see below), which sounds like they are performing the same low cell/ spacer trickery, as the other sports cats available but to a lesser extent.

Look bro, I'm not going to keep arguing the point, If your going to run an aftermarket downpipe, catted or catless, you need to just accept the fact that they are all illegal.

You ever wonder why BMW AG doesn't offer an "M Performance Sports Cats" in order to eke out a few horses or to compete with the aftermarket brands? It's because it would never meet EPA compliance and they have a lot more to lose than some of these aftermarket companies that operate in the fringes of the internet, which operate under no accountability.

.

Well, I don't live in Cali so CARB is irrelevant and emissions standards are left up to states. Some states don't even test lol.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Boostedphil698

Well, I don't live in Cali so CARB is irrelevant and emissions standards are left up to states. Some states don't even test lol.

That's some sound justification there and I obviously can't appeal to you with logic, so I'll let you have the last word..

Enjoy your smelly cat 🐈

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by Poochie

That's some sound justification there and I obviously can't appeal to you with logic, so I'll let you have the last word..

Enjoy your smelly cat 🐈

[pz619]

Originally Posted by Boostedphil698

Well, I don't live in Cali so CARB is irrelevant and emissions standards are left up to states. Some states don't even test lol.

Do you live in Pennsylvania? If so, you are in a CARB state. It started in California, hence the name, but 14 states are part of the club.

[AndrewC1989]

Originally Posted by Boostedphil698

I don't think anybody would ask their dealer to install downpipes. Dealers don't even like it when you put aftermarket wipers on.

Depends on the dealership. I go to one that sells and installs Dinan parts and offers wheel powdercoating. They really could care less if you have modifications and they'd gladly install them for you. Many of the SA's even ask what mods I have and tell me about theirs. The only time there would be an issue is if you wanted to warranty something that's failed because of a mod you had. That aside they don't give a crap.

[Boostedphil698]

Originally Posted by pz619

Do you live in Pennsylvania? If so, you are in a CARB state. It started in California, hence the name, but 14 states are part of the club.

I know Cali you can't even buy a chargepipe but in PA you can so at this point idk what to to think.

[Boostedphil698]

This makes sense. I knew that PA only adopted CARB requirements to title a new car. Here in PA we can use aftermarket cats.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1718072

[akkando]

Some stuff that isn't CARB certified could be, they just didn't spend the money to get certified, because its expensive.