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      01-16-2020, 05:54 PM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by premier3is View Post
And now here come the M owners about to say the M340i is not a true M car and shouldn't be in the same category. Lol.
It's not.... just like C43 isn't a real AMG. We can go on and on but it doesn't really matter. Be happy with what you bought.

Also I am not delusional about our X5 being an M car even though there's M plastered everywhere.
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      01-16-2020, 05:58 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topgear67 View Post
The reason people are bitching about M Performance cars is because M owners got to pay an extra $30K to get 0.5 sec faster car on a 0-60...

And we get an xDrive as a bonus so we are using them year round...lol

Yes, this is a Dakar Yellow 435i M Performance (now an M435i) Dinan stage 2, manual gear box, xDrive and very proud of it.
Let me also point out, people who never had track experience would make statements like above. People who drove ///M cars on the track will understand what I am writing.

No offense to any m performance owners but there is a huge difference between full on M cars and m performance cars.
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      01-16-2020, 05:58 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by Dylan86 View Post
They do deserve to be in a separate category, and they are. Look at the prices

Having owned both, I can't bring myself to understand your logic.
People work hard to own any car, period, that's common sense. Though most owners who paid MSRP or more than their annual salary to have the latest/greatest depreciating asset from BMW must justify their purchase when debating "value".

Most (new) M car owners are legit pussies as drivers and can't drive the cars to their factory limit let alone the limits of the cars after they dump $20k into performance modifications.

Most older "M" car owners can't afford to obtain or finance the newer cars, and they equally justify their ownership with "older is better, more raw, NA bro". Then there's the sensible ones, who buy what makes them happy, not what everyone thinks will be the best car, for them.. they get by just fine, too. The performance margins between the M cars of today, and their m-variants, make for another discussion altogether, the gap-up is no longer what it used to be.
If you can't understand my logic then there's no point of a discussion. We won't see eye to eye.

However given the number of enthusiasts, especially outside the BMW community, who agree with me; I'd say my logic is sound. I certainly do not aspire to own an M240, but the M2 on the other hand...
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      01-16-2020, 05:58 PM   #158
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I've understood it as M-Sport (m sports package or M340i) is like the entry level m car while the single M is a full "Motorsport" car.
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      01-16-2020, 06:00 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by elitex View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by premier3is View Post
And now here come the M owners about to say the M340i is not a true M car and shouldn't be in the same category. Lol.
It's not....
Price and products speaks itself so cut the BS.
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      01-16-2020, 06:03 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by elitex View Post
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Originally Posted by premier3is View Post
And now here come the M owners about to say the M340i is not a true M car and shouldn't be in the same category. Lol.
It's not....
Price and products speaks itself so cut the BS.
Cut the BS? Some of you can remain delusional. Go for it buy into the BS marketing.
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      01-16-2020, 06:05 PM   #161
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As an owner of F80 M3 and 2020 X3 M40i- the M performance cars are NOT real M cars. This whole branding thing by BMW is idiotic.

So M340i and M3 are just going to be badged M now - im confused?
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      01-16-2020, 06:07 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by NewM3driver View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by praxis218 View Post
I thought M was hype till I drove one, couldn't get the grin off my face, and then bought it on the spot!
The way the chassis communicates back to you and the confidence in handling is worlds apart.

I've had lots of 3-series cars (see my signature). And the funny thing is the M3 has been the best daily driver I've had. Lots of usable power on the streets with the right tires. The adaptive suspension and non-RFT tires gives it a comfortable ride.

I couldn't care less they call the M340i a M car. The M340i is a good car. I would buy one. It's just that the actual M cars just have a way better driving experience. I would only cringe if they start putting M badges on a 320i.
I’ve always thought the perfect unflappable suspension was what made the m cars the best. I always got mine with the stick. The manual tranny was the weak link of the M 3 in my opinion. The piped in sound was a bit tacky. The low stance and wide hips are just about perfect. I think the m340 engine sounds better as well

The m340 with the adaptive suspension and non run flat Michelin tires is pretty damn near perfect
Until m3 comes out...m340 is a great car yet it's not an m3

I don't get all the criticism of m cars, is it hate because people can't afford them or they just talk shit just because.

M cars were and are always top of the model line, and it will stay that way no many how many people scream otherwise.

I really like all bmw's for their own purpose.

There is no price logic, and yes most people won't use them on the track etc...so will 99.9% of super cars will never see a track yet owners of boxter don't scream that GT2 RS is a crap car.

Have common sense and grow a pair, no need to shit on people's choices if you don't agree with them. Unless that "M" sticker made you feel so much better about yourself that you can't hold it in
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      01-16-2020, 06:10 PM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R N M View Post
As an owner of F80 M3 and 2020 X3 M40i- the M performance cars are NOT real M cars. This whole branding thing by BMW is idiotic.

So M340i and M3 are just going to be badged M now - im confused?
Your initial point is spot on, yet it won't be understood because everyone wants to belong to a high class.

What OP meant is that in sales and production counts Anything with M sticker will be counted as an M car
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      01-16-2020, 06:12 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
This is not an ego thing. I don't even own an M division product. I'm just a BMW enthusiast who sees this marketing gimmick for what it is.

There are significant engineering differences between true M division products and "M performance" products. As others have pointed out there are even different VIN numbers.

Every manufacturer of luxury goods has different grades of their product. That's what makes the finest and most expensive end of their line desirable. BMW is bastardizing their most bespoke product line.
I've owed BMWs continuously since 1990, so I know a thing or two about being an enthusiast and know nearly everything about the brand over the past 40+ years.

Marketing took over a long long time ago, first it was the option of a non-MT to not offering MTs in nearly all modern Ms. Then the trucks came and took over. Then turbos took over. These are not track cars used for professional racing where the speed of a DCT is required, so they should not offer any Ms unless they are an MT, and if you can't drive an MT, you shouldn't have an M. but alas, its all about market share not about a product for enthusiast. BMWs were not about a luxury product, they were about a sports oriented car company.

....look the wars have just begun, a next gen M3 will be the poor mans M3 because of the two M3 models that are being offered above them..u know how its going to be, my M3CS has more power than your pity little "regular" M3 so piss off!!! just pure bs madness as if a car the size and weight of an M3 is a track duty car. Its silly and funny if it wasn't so sad.

People argue that SAVs are Ms, thats the biggest joke ever, and then to make it more fun, BMW offers Competition versions of "M" trucks

and people will argue to their blue in the face that since BMW calls is an X5M Competition, for example, its a real M!!! We all need 600hp to haul a crap around or be an uber for the soccer club!!! A monster truck is a real M!!!!???!!!! Come on, Marketing 101.

But guess what, if someone wants to buy it and feel good thinking they are driving an M because of what the true history of M was and made the letter stand for, so be it, it doesn't affect my life in one bit.

but when those insecure people crap on something because they think it diminishes their purchase, I have to say BS and get over yourself and your ego. Its this attitude that makes so many people have disdain for the brand, and here you have brand owner vs brand owner because some can't fathom the fact that they are buying a marketing M, not a car derived from motorsport.
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      01-16-2020, 06:21 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m630 View Post
I've owed BMWs continuously since 1990, so I know a thing or two about being an enthusiast and know nearly everything about the brand over the past 40+ years.

Marketing took over a long long time ago, first it was the option of a non-MT to not offering MTs in nearly all modern Ms. Then the trucks came and took over. These are not track cars used for professional racing where the speed of a DCT is required, so they should not offer any Ms unless they are an MT, and if you can't drive an MT, you shouldn't have an M. but alas, its all about market share not about a product for enthusiast. BMWs were not about a luxury product, they were about a sports oriented car company.

....look the wars have just begun, a next gen M3 will be the poor mans M3 because of the two M3 models that are being offered above them..u know how its going to be, my M3CS has more power than your pity little "regular" M3 so piss off!!! just pure bs madness as if a car the size and weight of an M3 is a track duty car. Its silly and funny if it wasn't so sad.

People argue that SAVs are Ms, thats the biggest joke ever, and then to make it more fun, BMW offers Competition versions of "M" trucks

and people will argue to their blue in the face that since BMW calls is an X5M Competition, for example, its a real M!!! We all need 600hp to haul a crap around or be an uber for the soccer club!!! A monster truck is a real M!!!!???!!!! Come on, Marketing 101.

But guess what, if someone wants to buy it and feel good thinking they are driving an M because of what the true history of M was and made the letter stand for, so be it, it doesn't affect my life in one bit.

but when those insecure people crap on something because they think it diminishes their purchase, I have to say BS and get over yourself and your ego. Its this attitude that makes so many people have disdain for the brand, and here you have brand owner vs brand owner because some can't fathom the fact that they are buying a marketing M, not a car derived from motorsport.
Insecure and "M" go well together, you nailed it. Can only think what they'd do if they saw what the P car owners were saying about them

I try to stay humble and take them down on the track, nothing feels better than cleaning up a shoddy driver in a $100k car they bought to be "the best".
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      01-16-2020, 06:24 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by Dylan86 View Post
Insecure and "M" go well together, you nailed it. Can only think what they'd do if they saw what the P car owners were saying about them

I try to stay humble and take them down on the track, nothing feels better than cleaning up a shoddy driver in a $100k car they bought to be "the best".
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      01-16-2020, 06:35 PM   #167
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Who fucking cares about a badge. I sure as hell don’t have time to give a fuck. A real enthusiast knows what’s under the hood and in the wheel arches. Those people are the ones giving the thumbs up, talking at gas stations, cars and coffee, track events, etc. Let them brand away. Posers are everywhere
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      01-16-2020, 06:37 PM   #168
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I don't get it. Is this for sales metrics (don't care) or actual badging (care)?

A previous poster asked is a M340 going to be badged M3? Is that the case? That's silly, but the naming does track Mercedes. C43 (Amg enhanced engine) and S63 (handcrafted AMG). Different classes, both AMG, but one is and one isn't. You can only tell if your read details in marketing material. I guess BMW is going that way.

Uninitiated won't notice things missing like M diff, cross bolted main bearing caps, closed deck cylinder heads, bigger turbos, cross bank exhaust manifold, more oil, more oil pickups, true super stiff M chassis, track days WOT and oil temp staying at 250, 6 piston calipers, well, you get the point. It will just irritate those who do.
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      01-16-2020, 06:37 PM   #169
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True that

Quote:
Originally Posted by premier3is View Post
And now here come the M owners about to say the M340i is not a true M car and shouldn't be in the same category. Lol.
The M340i is not a true M car and shouldn't be in the same category.
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      01-16-2020, 06:39 PM   #170
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      01-16-2020, 06:40 PM   #171
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If you can't understand my logic then there's no point of a discussion. We won't see eye to eye.

However given the number of enthusiasts, especially outside the BMW community, who agree with me; I'd say my logic is sound. I certainly do not aspire to own an M240, but the M2 on the other hand...
The M2 is a great car, as is the M240. You'd buy one or the other for varying reasons such as adaptive suspension, cheaper running costs, ownership term length etc. One is better for one purpose, and one is better for the other, neither are best at everything, which is why there's a category for each of them. In your opinion the M2 is "better", because that's the conviction you have, but does that mean the M240 isn't deserving of brand recognition? Have you seen the performance metrics between these cars, they're marginal at best...

If I were forced to chose there's an obvious answer as I'm primarily a performance oriented driver. For some like me, though, I don't want what the next guy can go buy, so I typically build my own setups on base platforms and in general they perform much better than any manufacturer's offering. It's not always a money thing like most of the ignorante's are suggesting, some spend far more building a base car than buying the "built" car. I do often get a kick out of the ignorant BMW owners at the track, especially, they're not ready for a track prepped non-M BMW
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      01-16-2020, 06:41 PM   #172
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I can only imagine because that's how I feel with the M340i lol and why for the daily grind I just keep it in comfort.
Try driving a 911 in Manhattan traffic.....
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      01-16-2020, 06:42 PM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan86 View Post
They do deserve to be in a separate category, and they are. Look at the prices

Having owned both, I can't bring myself to understand your logic.
People work hard to own any car, period, that's common sense. Though most owners who paid MSRP or more than their annual salary to have the latest/greatest depreciating asset from BMW must justify their purchase when debating "value".

Most (new) M car owners are legit pussies as drivers and can't drive the cars to their factory limit let alone the limits of the cars after they dump $20k into performance modifications.

Most older "M" car owners can't afford to obtain or finance the newer cars, and they equally justify their ownership with "older is better, more raw, NA bro". Then there's the sensible ones, who buy what makes them happy, not what everyone thinks will be the best car, for them.. they get by just fine, too. The performance margins between the M cars of today, and their m-variants, make for another discussion altogether, the gap-up is no longer what it used to be.
Amen! with the blatant narcissism being displayed by the so called real M drivers. I am proud to not be a part of that camp. Their self esteem is tied to their cars, they didn't buy their M cars for the performance. They bought it merely as a status symbol to shout to others that they have the better car than the other 3 series guy.

I mean, if you want to impress someone with a performance car, get a 997.2 GT3 RS. M3 isn't even considered a sports car these days. Why settle for M3, there are far better drivers car, yes they cost more, but we know these real M drivers all have unlimited sums of money so why are these grown men here crying about dilution.
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      01-16-2020, 06:44 PM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EXE46 View Post
The irony is that the majority of these real M cars are being used in the exact same manner as most of us M340i drivers. Which is daily commute to and fro from work which really defeats its true purpose and capability.
I somewhat disagree. M cars have always been do-it-all vehicles - cars which can do the daily stuff well, and support the rigors of track duty reasonably well.

I say reasonably well because most M cars which are tracked vary to some extent from stock: brake pads, fluid, camber plates, track tires all seem to be almost mandatory for track duty. For example, while I usually leave the track pads on the car from April to November, there is a significant downgrade in daily driveability as a result (that noise, the clunking etc). No stock M car is truly suitable for real track duty, and I’m including in this category those equipped with carbon ceramic brakes as well. (Unless you really are ok with a $9,000 replacement cost I guess).

So looking at it this way, “real” M cars have always been designed for the dual duty with certain limitations.

Then again, something like an M5 is very rarely seen at the track, as it’s too big and heavy really, and hard on the consumables.

And what to make of the MSUVs? Let’s not get there...


Anyway I don’t really care what they call the cars. I buy them 100% for the capabilities and not the lore or status. Well, 99% maybe.
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      01-16-2020, 06:48 PM   #175
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You guys are all missing the actual discussion point. The only real M cars are the ones that have manual transmissions.
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      01-16-2020, 06:48 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khrushchev View Post
The M340i is not a true M car and shouldn't be in the same category.
It is not in the same category. But based on the M designation, to BMW, it's an M car.

M2
M3
M4
M5
M8

M235i/M240i
M340i
M440i
M550i
M760i
M850i

230i
330i
430i
530i/540i
740i/750i
840i

Different categories in my eyes regardless of performance margins between full M and variant models.
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