[widetyres]

Hi,

Please can anyone with bootmod3 ots stage 1 let me know how the engine performs in the top end? I love the way the standard/OEM map let's you chase the redline - is it the same with stage 1, or do you have to shift early to keep the power on?

Thanks,
WT

[Nezil]

Originally Posted by widetyres

Hi,

Please can anyone with bootmod3 ots stage 1 let me know how the engine performs in the top end? I love the way the standard/OEM map let's you chase the redline - is it the same with stage 1, or do you have to shift early to keep the power on?

Thanks,
WT

I could be wrong, but I think the reason you're getting no response to your post is that I've never heard anyone say:

the standard/OEM map let's you chase the redline

This is one of the major complaints of the N55!

It's true that most tunes bump up the torque lower in the rev-range, which can cause a feeling of 'running out of steam' at the top and, and BM3 OTS maps are no different in that regard, but it's not serious.

The N55 is limited in many ways, but the stock turbo starts pumping hot air at high rpm, which is a major contributing factor. This raises IATs and results in the DME pulling timing. Keeping power as intended at the top end with an N55 requires octane... something that we're really lacking in the US with pump gas.

You can change the turbo out to shift the power band up higher in the RPM range, or increase octane with octane boosters, E85 blends (if your HPFP can handle it) or WMI. Or if you're in Europe, the fuel seems to be way better anyway, and this is probably not required.

Go back and look at some of the posts by SeanWRT. He's posted some very comprehensive results of his N55 tuning, and his goal was similar to yours - to have a reliable map (for track and street, whatever the weather) that pulls hard to red-line. He didn't want to go WMI, and he does have pretty good fuel. He ended up going with an upgraded (Stage 2) turbo, and a custom map to get his car the way he liked.

[SeanWRT]

I'm surprised to be called out. BM3 OTS are programmed to taper at upper rev range in the first place. The underboost strategy kicks in from 5k2 point, which is to make top end boost and throttle more controllable. Timing targets go up but that's because of the piston travel speed. @Nezil is correct, top end is very much about the octane which western US pump gas lacks.

Nevertheless BM3 ots is one of the tunes that taper less. It's by human nature to pursue maximum attainable power and most wouldn't stop at stg1 unless you stick to stock hardware.

Have fun!

Sean

[Nezil]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

I'm surprised to be called out.

You're the expert SeanWRT!

Much of what I've learnt, I've learnt from your posts, and your openness and willingness to help is a great example of what makes this forum great.

[widetyres]

Originally Posted by Nezil

I could be wrong, but I think the reason you're getting no response to your post is that I've never heard anyone say:

the standard/OEM map let's you chase the redline

This is one of the major complaints of the N55!

It's true that most tunes bump up the torque lower in the rev-range, which can cause a feeling of 'running out of steam' at the top and, and BM3 OTS maps are no different in that regard, but it's not serious.

The N55 is limited in many ways, but the stock turbo starts pumping hot air at high rpm, which is a major contributing factor. This raises IATs and results in the DME pulling timing. Keeping power as intended at the top end with an N55 requires octane... something that we're really lacking in the US with pump gas.

You can change the turbo out to shift the power band up higher in the RPM range, or increase octane with octane boosters, E85 blends (if your HPFP can handle it) or WMI. Or if you're in Europe, the fuel seems to be way better anyway, and this is probably not required.

Go back and look at some of the posts by SeanWRT. He's posted some very comprehensive results of his N55 tuning, and his goal was similar to yours - to have a reliable map (for track and street, whatever the weather) that pulls hard to red-line. He didn't want to go WMI, and he does have pretty good fuel. He ended up going with an upgraded (Stage 2) turbo, and a custom map to get his car the way he liked.

Cheers for posting.

In the UK, I'm able to run the car on 99RON often and sometimes 97RON. These fuels enable an almost NA feel to the top end on the standard map with power not tapping off until 6.8k - this is something that I really appreciate as I have loved thrashing many NA cars in the past.

Some stock dynos on these fuels can be seen here (very conservative dyno)
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1313397

Someone responded to my post on a UK FB group with the attached dyno showing bootmod3 stage 1 map - it's actually not that bad in terms of high end drop off, but can be seen from 6.3k.

[widetyres]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

I'm surprised to be called out. BM3 OTS are programmed to taper at upper rev range in the first place. The underboost strategy kicks in from 5k2 point, which is to make top end boost and throttle more controllable. Timing targets go up but that's because of the piston travel speed. @Nezil is correct, top end is very much about the octane which western US pump gas lacks.

Nevertheless BM3 ots is one of the tunes that taper less. It's by human nature to pursue maximum attainable power and most wouldn't stop at stg1 unless you stick to stock hardware.

Have fun!

Sean

Yeah, this would be absolutely a first step, with stage 2 perhaps by next summer. Ultimately a turbo upgrade would be on the cards prob in 2021. I liked your posts on gpower turbo, but would prob try a tte550 as they are quite a bit cheaper.

The reason for this stage 1 post is that I have the option to get a stage 1 license at a good price. Long term is totally worth it, but I was just wondering on the short term benefits before FBO.

Cheers

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by widetyres

Yeah, this would be absolutely a first step, with stage 2 perhaps by next summer. Ultimately a turbo upgrade would be on the cards prob in 2021. I liked your posts on gpower turbo, but would prob try a tte550 as they are quite a bit cheaper.

The reason for this stage 1 post is that I have the option to get a stage 1 license at a good price. Long term is totally worth it, but I was just wondering on the short term benefits before FBO.

Cheers

According to a few reports, in Europe with proper RON99/100, octane isn't really the limiting factor at least when IAT stays under 80F. TTE550 or G Power max out HPFP on just pump gas when you push to 19+psi.

G-Power people wrote me before I installed their turbo that I need PI or Meth to support fueling. Though it turned out I'm doing fine with stock HPFP because I left headroom.

I'm advising against your plan as to install one mod at a time and ultimately go with STG2 turbo. Do the math and you could've traded up for a M2C to have easy big power.

[widetyres]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

According to a few reports, in Europe with proper RON99/100, octane isn't really the limiting factor at least when IAT stays under 80F. TTE550 or G Power max out HPFP on just pump gas when you push to 19+psi.

G-Power people wrote me before I installed their turbo that I need PI or Meth to support fueling. Though it turned out I'm doing fine with stock HPFP because I left headroom.

I'm advising against your plan as to install one mod at a time and ultimately go with STG2 turbo. Do the math and you could've traded up for a M2C to have easy big power.

My wife would spot a different car though! ;-)

Besides its like probably £15k to swap from mine to m2c. I think then I'd end up spending loads on it (especially immediately on the exhaust to sort out that dreadful din). I really love the n55 m2 - with gts coding, it really is an excellent car that feels, goes and sounds great!

[AmuroRay]

Someone did a dyno on BM3 on the M2 and it actually lost power up top, that might be what you're experiencing.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...highlight=dyno

[widetyres]

Re Stage 1, TBH I was not enjoying it on 97RON - it didn't feel right in the top end - I diluted with 1/2 tank of 99RON and after a little while it now seems good.

Things I've noticed:

1) Timing is not as good as the OEM map on the same fuel (was reaching 11.5 and sometimes 12 on OEM map with 97RON) from early in the pull. The remap is reaching 10.5 degrees much later and also the timing between cylinders is a lot more inconsistent

2) The boost target is failing to be reached post 5.25K

I will relog after another tank of 99RON as that might well make all the difference. Certainly the car is feeling better now.

The car is defo much faster in the mid-range – it's enough of an increase that I'm noticeable going quicker on familiar roads.

In terms of top end, there is definitely a trade off in terms of more mid-range punch being achieved for a trade-in of top end, and perhaps this is linked to the car not hitting target boost after 5.25K RPM.

What would be the advice/first step to get the boost on target? - do you think it's a back pressure issue? Would the inlet pipe help? Or is it just part of the course for the N55 EWG OEM turbo?

I also disliked the "OEM" burbles. BMW had got the burbles pretty much nailed in the last ISTEP (as long as you were happy without excessive bangs) and it's a shame to loose them as they sort of hand a random-nous to them, which was good - I tried the Bootmod3 "OEM" burbles, but they sounded naf. Last night I customised them to an aggression level of 3 and duration of 0.6 seconds. I went for a drive this morning to check out the new setup – it’s pretty good! :-) Burbles are not excessive, but there is sometimes a proper backfire if you hammer the throttle and then let off quickly – not all the time, just occasionally, so I like that.

Other thing noticed is that the cat warm up is shorter in duration (it is still set to be on) - which the neighbours will like!

Cheers.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by widetyres

Re Stage 1, TBH I was not enjoying it on 97RON - it didn't feel right in the top end - I diluted with 1/2 tank of 99RON and after a little while it now seems good.

My log on 97RON is here: http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d7d49f8ae729b1157443e41

Things I've noticed:

1) Timing is not as good as the OEM map on the same fuel (was reaching 11.5 and sometimes 12 on OEM map with 97RON) from early in the pull. The remap is reaching 10.5 degrees much later and also the timing between cylinders is a lot more inconsistent

2) The boost target is failing to be reached post 5.25K

I will relog after another tank of 99RON as that might well make all the difference. Certainly the car is feeling better now.

The car is defo much faster in the mid-range – it's enough of an increase that I'm noticeable going quicker on familiar roads.

In terms of top end, there is definitely a trade off in terms of more mid-range punch being achieved for a trade-in of top end, and perhaps this is linked to the car not hitting target boost after 5.25K RPM.

What would be the advice/first step to get the boost on target? - do you think it's a back pressure issue? Would the inlet pipe help? Or is it just part of the course for the N55 EWG OEM turbo?

I also disliked the "OEM" burbles. BMW had got the burbles pretty much nailed in the last ISTEP (as long as you were happy without excessive bangs) and it's a shame to loose them as they sort of hand a random-nous to them, which was good - I tried the Bootmod3 "OEM" burbles, but they sounded naf. Last night I customised them to an aggression level of 3 and duration of 0.6 seconds. I went for a drive this morning to check out the new setup – it’s pretty good! :-) Burbles are not excessive, but there is sometimes a proper backfire if you hammer the throttle and then let off quickly – not all the time, just occasionally, so I like that.

Other thing noticed is that the cat warm up is shorter in duration (it is still set to be on) - which the neighbours will like!

Cheers.

I'm no expert but you might consider an intercooler upgrade. My understanding is the OEM one sucks with the stock tune and even worse with a modified tune. As things heat up the timing will get worse. I assume with the tune the IAT increase even faster.

[Bee Pee]

Originally Posted by widetyres

Re Stage 1, TBH I was not enjoying it on 97RON - it didn't feel right in the top end - I diluted with 1/2 tank of 99RON and after a little while it now seems good.

My log on 97RON is here: http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d7d49f8ae729b1157443e41

Things I've noticed:

1) Timing is not as good as the OEM map on the same fuel (was reaching 11.5 and sometimes 12 on OEM map with 97RON) from early in the pull. The remap is reaching 10.5 degrees much later and also the timing between cylinders is a lot more inconsistent

2) The boost target is failing to be reached post 5.25K

I will relog after another tank of 99RON as that might well make all the difference. Certainly the car is feeling better now.

The car is defo much faster in the mid-range – it's enough of an increase that I'm noticeable going quicker on familiar roads.

In terms of top end, there is definitely a trade off in terms of more mid-range punch being achieved for a trade-in of top end, and perhaps this is linked to the car not hitting target boost after 5.25K RPM.

What would be the advice/first step to get the boost on target? - do you think it's a back pressure issue? Would the inlet pipe help? Or is it just part of the course for the N55 EWG OEM turbo?

I also disliked the "OEM" burbles. BMW had got the burbles pretty much nailed in the last ISTEP (as long as you were happy without excessive bangs) and it's a shame to loose them as they sort of hand a random-nous to them, which was good - I tried the Bootmod3 "OEM" burbles, but they sounded naf. Last night I customised them to an aggression level of 3 and duration of 0.6 seconds. I went for a drive this morning to check out the new setup – it’s pretty good! :-) Burbles are not excessive, but there is sometimes a proper backfire if you hammer the throttle and then let off quickly – not all the time, just occasionally, so I like that.

Other thing noticed is that the cat warm up is shorter in duration (it is still set to be on) - which the neighbours will like!

Cheers.

WT - what hardware mods does yr M2's n55 engine currently have ?

4 items to consider installing to get the more out of oem/stg1 OTS tune in the mid to upper rev range:-

1. DP upgrade - removes the stock 400+200cpi cats - from 1st hand experience, n55 responds well to 200CPI DP works and stays legal wrt MOT etc;
2. Hi Flo inlet - oem plastic inlet coupling on compressor side of oem turbo has an undersized ID so fitting inlet pipe removes this restriction - less turbulence/less heat;
3. For our UK climate, I/cooler upgrade is not essential but probably a good idea as M2 heat management is good to a point. From M135i, I found std I/cooler was fine thru to ~ 16psi boost. Running with 16+ psi meant effects of heatsoak and slow recovery could be limit the fun !
4. Last, oem divertor valve is starts to 'flutter' at above 15-15.5 psi at mid into high rev ranges and gets worse as divertor valve ages. GFB DV+ replaces the rubber for a spring actuated setup which removes the 'flutter' so car is able to hold more boost with less tapering at the top end.
2.


BP.

[widetyres]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

WT - what hardware mods does yr M2's n55 engine currently have ?

4 items to consider installing to get the more out of oem/stg1 OTS tune in the mid to upper rev range:-

1. DP upgrade - removes the stock 400+200cpi cats - from 1st hand experience, n55 responds well to 200CPI DP works and stays legal wrt MOT etc;
2. Hi Flo inlet - oem plastic inlet coupling on compressor side of oem turbo has an undersized ID so fitting inlet pipe removes this restriction - less turbulence/less heat;
3. For our UK climate, I/cooler upgrade is not essential but probably a good idea as M2 heat management is good to a point. From M135i, I found std I/cooler was fine thru to ~ 16psi boost. Running with 16+ psi meant effects of heatsoak and slow recovery could be limit the fun !
4. Last, oem divertor valve is starts to 'flutter' at above 15-15.5 psi at mid into high rev ranges and gets worse as divertor valve ages. GFB DV+ replaces the rubber for a spring actuated setup which removes the 'flutter' so car is able to hold more boost with less tapering at the top end.
2.


BP.

Cheers BP.

All I have modified engine wise is the charge pipe and a drop in filter (pipercross).

I'll start working down that list!

[JKen_0115]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

WT - what hardware mods does yr M2's n55 engine currently have ?

4 items to consider installing to get the more out of oem/stg1 OTS tune in the mid to upper rev range:-

1. DP upgrade - removes the stock 400+200cpi cats - from 1st hand experience, n55 responds well to 200CPI DP works and stays legal wrt MOT etc;
2. Hi Flo inlet - oem plastic inlet coupling on compressor side of oem turbo has an undersized ID so fitting inlet pipe removes this restriction - less turbulence/less heat;
3. For our UK climate, I/cooler upgrade is not essential but probably a good idea as M2 heat management is good to a point. From M135i, I found std I/cooler was fine thru to ~ 16psi boost. Running with 16+ psi meant effects of heatsoak and slow recovery could be limit the fun !
4. Last, oem divertor valve is starts to 'flutter' at above 15-15.5 psi at mid into high rev ranges and gets worse as divertor valve ages. GFB DV+ replaces the rubber for a spring actuated setup which removes the 'flutter' so car is able to hold more boost with less tapering at the top end.
2.


BP.

Great advice, BP!!!!

[JKen_0115]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

WT - what hardware mods does yr M2's n55 engine currently have ?

4 items to consider installing to get the more out of oem/stg1 OTS tune in the mid to upper rev range:-

1. DP upgrade - removes the stock 400+200cpi cats - from 1st hand experience, n55 responds well to 200CPI DP works and stays legal wrt MOT etc;
2. Hi Flo inlet - oem plastic inlet coupling on compressor side of oem turbo has an undersized ID so fitting inlet pipe removes this restriction - less turbulence/less heat;
3. For our UK climate, I/cooler upgrade is not essential but probably a good idea as M2 heat management is good to a point. From M135i, I found std I/cooler was fine thru to ~ 16psi boost. Running with 16+ psi meant effects of heatsoak and slow recovery could be limit the fun !
4. Last, oem divertor valve is starts to 'flutter' at above 15-15.5 psi at mid into high rev ranges and gets worse as divertor valve ages. GFB DV+ replaces the rubber for a spring actuated setup which removes the 'flutter' so car is able to hold more boost with less tapering at the top end.
2.


BP.

BP, will you suggest for the aftermarket intake or high-flow filter drop-in? I know there is the other thread about this topic, but like to get your opinion if you have tried..

[Bee Pee]

Originally Posted by JKen_0115

BP, will you suggest for the aftermarket intake or high-flow filter drop-in? I know there is the other thread about this topic, but like to get your opinion if you have tried..

JKen,

TBH I did a fair bit of experimentation with intakes on my JB4'd m135i.

Best bang for the buck with an AFE air scoop and dry drop in filter in oem sealed air box. I moved to Dinan CAI which was marginally better but not a big leap from the above set up.

Hence - on my m2 - I have AFE dry drop in filter in stock airbox.

BP

[Insane_Dawe]

On this similar note, has anyone experimented with leaving the stock fueling/timing/boost tables for under 4K and applied more aggressive tables above 4K?

[squixs]

Originally Posted by widetyres

I also disliked the "OEM" burbles. BMW had got the burbles pretty much nailed in the last ISTEP (as long as you were happy without excessive bangs) and it's a shame to loose them as they sort of hand a random-nous to them, which was good - I tried the Bootmod3 "OEM" burbles, but they sounded naf. Last night I customised them to an aggression level of 3 and duration of 0.6 seconds. I went for a drive this morning to check out the new setup – it's pretty good! :-) Burbles are not excessive, but there is sometimes a proper backfire if you hammer the throttle and then let off quickly – not all the time, just occasionally, so I like that.

Cheers.

I also liked the real OEM style much better. I've flashed to stage 1, two days ago and I also have a FS Sport cat. Can you maybe share the custom setting screen of your burbles? I think the PTF OEM style is a bit to much, at least for me.

[widetyres]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

JKen,

TBH I did a fair bit of experimentation with intakes on my JB4'd m135i.

Best bang for the buck with an AFE air scoop and dry drop in filter in oem sealed air box. I moved to Dinan CAI which was marginally better but not a big leap from the above set up.

Hence - on my m2 - I have AFE dry drop in filter in stock airbox.

BP

I did way too much reading on air filers (I'm a sado! and was trawling for ISO5011 reports) and determined that the best option IMO for aftermarket filters was an oiled foam filter (to have the best balance of filtration and air flow). Options I know of are Pipercross and ITG (which look very similar in construction but the Pipercross is cheaper)

Interestingly, when contacting Eventuri for their ISO5011 report, it was like tumbleweed! Usually they are super responsive on queries, but they clearly didn't want to share that info!

[widetyres]

Originally Posted by squixs

I also liked the real OEM style much better. I've flashed to stage 1, two days ago and I also have a FS Sport cat. Can you maybe share the custom setting screen of your burbles? I think the PTF OEM style is a bit to much, at least for me.

Sure - I went for:

Sport: 2.5 aggressive, 0.5 seconds

Sport+: 3 aggressive, 0.6 seconds

I also change the min RPM to 2.5K so that I don't have burbles when just moving slowly.

I personally like it. As I mention, it does pop occasionally, but not very often. Perhaps I may up them 0.5 - 1 for aggressiveness if I need to flash again, however, I am super happy with the duration.

As you have a Sports Cat, any burble setting will always sound louder than stock anyway, so you may have to experiment.

[widetyres]

How many knocks is too many?

Over a 15 min hard drive last night I have 12 knock incidents. 9 of these occurred when IAT was between 102F - 120F. (this is with Shell Vpower 99RON)

Is it safe to live with this, or do I need to rollback to the stock tune?

[widetyres]

Originally Posted by widetyres

How many knocks is too many?

Over a 15 min hard drive last night I have 12 knock incidents. 9 of these occurred when IAT was between 102F - 120F. (this is with Shell Vpower 99RON)

Is it safe to live with this, or do I need to rollback to the stock tune?

Or perhaps will new plugs sort this do you think?