[SHAGG]

Just bought 2018 LBB
$3500 under msrp
1.9% for 72 months
Wish I had known about the lower rates with USAA.

[oalvarez]

^ that's as good as i've seen thus far. good for you.

congrats!

[champignon]

I didn't bite on an M2 loaded with a bunch of extraneous stuff that has been sitting on my dealer's lot. This was a couple of weeks ago and it is still there, as they would not budge off of MSRP, and there was $5K worth of stuff on there that I did not want.

I'm wondering when they are going to call me :-)

[JPizzz]

Originally Posted by SHAGG

Just bought 2018 LBB
$3500 under msrp
1.9% for 72 months
Wish I had known about the lower rates with USAA.

Did this include the 1k usaa discount? Meaning they took $2500 off before incentives?

[DVG 335]

Originally Posted by SHAGG

Just bought 2018 LBB
$3500 under msrp
1.9% for 72 months
Wish I had known about the lower rates with USAA.

What dealer is this from?

Dave

[oalvarez]

i was recently quoted 1k off of a 2018, a $62k example, and located here in the state of California.....but just got off the phone with another dealership (more local) who said "you know that car comes with a $10k markup...." I giggled and wished the gent a good evening.

[SHAGG]

Originally Posted by JPizzz

Did this include the 1k usaa discount? Meaning they took $2500 off before incentives?

No, I did not even mention USAA.

Originally Posted by oalvarez

^ that's as good as i've seen thus far. good for you.

congrats!

Thank you!

Originally Posted by DVG 335

What dealer is this from?

Dave

Denver

[JPizzz]

Here’s the final offer from my dealer guys:

18’ LBB fully loaded with a couple of m parts.
Msrp 61890
Sale price: $59390
Conquest incentive:$1000 anyone know what this is? Never heard of this.
Total price $58390
1.9/72 month financing.

I dont have USAA or college grad. What do you guys think? I was gonna wait for the refresh, but this is a pretty great deal, plus I’m getting $1500 extra on a trade that will take a hit by the time the CS come out.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by JPizzz

Here’s the final offer from my dealer guys:

18’ LBB fully loaded with a couple of m parts.
Msrp 61890
Sale price: $59390
Conquest incentive:$1000 anyone know what this is? Never heard of this.
Total price $58390
1.9/72 month financing.

I dont have USAA or college grad. What do you guys think? I was gonna wait for the refresh, but this is a pretty great deal, plus I’m getting $1500 extra on a trade that will take a hit by the time the CS come out.

You say the car is fully loaded; is it loaded up with stuff that you want, or is it stuff that the dealer ordered so that he could make more profit on the car? (my guess is the latter).

You won't get much back on the options, whatever they are. Sporty car collectors often prefer "slicktops," or cars without a sunroof, so assuming that this is part of the package it could even reduce resale interest in your car, at least from some buyers.

Here is how I would make the decision for you:

(1) Figure out what the M2 of your dreams, configured as you would like it to be configured, would cost at MSRP;

(2) Realize that the market for these cars is slackening right now, because of the "BRZ effect," the expected arrival of a newer version with a newer engine, and maybe also seasonal factors. Read this thread and other threads and resources available to get an idea of the discounts off of MSRP that people are now getting;

(3) Apply your expected/market discount to the price of the M2 that you would buy if you could select how it was configured; that's what this or any other M2 is really "worth" to you;

(4) Figure out what your trade in is really worth; it doesn't matter what the dealer is offering you, they can easily move money back and forth between the trade in value and the cost of the new car. These are really two different transactions, and you should figure them separately and then combine the numbers;

(5) Figure out what any financing incentive is actually worth in real dollars over the period of time that you are actually likely to own the car (may not be the full term of the loan);

(6) Voila! You have your numbers!

The dealer may have different numbers than you have, and the deal may or may not be capable of being made. There will always be another car out there to buy, it just may take a little bit of time. If you have to wait, sure, your current car will depreciate, but probably less day by day than any new car you replace it with will depreciate.

Good luck.

[JPizzz]

Originally Posted by champignon

You say the car is fully loaded; is it loaded up with stuff that you want, or is it stuff that the dealer ordered so that he could make more profit on the car? (my guess is the latter).

You won't get much back on the options, whatever they are. Sporty car collectors often prefer "slicktops," or cars without a sunroof, so assuming that this is part of the package it could even reduce resale interest in your car, at least from some buyers.

Here is how I would make the decision for you:

(1) Figure out what the M2 of your dreams, configured as you would like it to be configured, would cost at MSRP;

(2) Realize that the market for these cars is slackening right now, because of the "BRZ effect," the expected arrival of a newer version with a newer engine, and maybe also seasonal factors. Read this thread and other threads and resources available to get an idea of the discounts off of MSRP that people are now getting;

(3) Apply your expected/market discount to the price of the M2 that you would buy if you could select how it was configured; that's what this or any other M2 is really "worth" to you;

(4) Figure out what your trade in is really worth; it doesn't matter what the dealer is offering you, they can easily move money back and forth between the trade in value and the cost of the new car. These are really two different transactions, and you should figure them separately and then combine the numbers;

(5) Figure out what any financing incentive is actually worth in real dollars over the period of time that you are actually likely to own the car (may not be the full term of the loan);

(6) Voila! You have your numbers!

The dealer may have different numbers than you have, and the deal may or may not be capable of being made. There will always be another car out there to buy, it just may take a little bit of time. If you have to wait, sure, your current car will depreciate, but probably less day by day than any new car you replace it with will depreciate.

Good luck.

Thanks for the reply. So the car is exactly how I would price an m2. It does have a sunroof, which is what I would prefer, although I see how this can hurt resale. The dealer has about 1k in performance parts added-carbon side mirrors and m pedals. Trade price is above average and this is from me negotiating for a bit with Multiple dealers and comparing to KBB.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by JPizzz

Thanks for the reply. So the car is exactly how I would price an m2. It does have a sunroof, which is what I would prefer, although I see how this can hurt resale. The dealer has about 1k in performance parts added-carbon side mirrors and m pedals. Trade price is above average and this is from me negotiating for a bit with Multiple dealers and comparing to KBB.

Then it sounds like you answered your own question, and the deal is good for you . . . . in that case, you don't need anyone else's judgement on whether or not you should buy, you should just go for it!

[Revvvm3]

Any dealerships in CA, SF BAY AREA with deals like this?

[DDR MFS]

Adding to this thread since it is along the lines of my questions.

Coming back to BMW after selling my E92iS, driving a 987.1 Cayman S for two years, and now need an additional two seats.

Test drove the car and fell in love. I am working with one dealer right now who is the region's high volume dealer. I am former military and using the USAA 2K coupon, but am also looking to use either the BMWCCA discount or the BMWFA recent graduate coupon (I just completed my Master's).

I am going to custom build the car in MG with 6MT. No other options. So I am looking at 55,050 MSRP. I will be putting about 10K (maybe 11K-12K) down, and intend to keep this until it dies or gets destroyed.

I have received mixed information about combining incentives, but know that the USAA and BMWCCA cannot be combined. I called BMWFA and they said that combining discounts was at the discretion of the dealer, and it seems that combining the grad and USAA coupons is a possibility. Does anyone have any specific examples concerning these exact incentives? I am of the understanding that the discount only applies if you go with that associated institution's finance option. Is this correct?

I leased my E92 at got it for around 52K with payments in the low 500s and that is where I want to keep my M2. That said, in doing research and with me wanting to keep the car long term, the inclination is to finance or do BMW Select. I read on here and in other reliable car publications that the M2 generally does not lease well. Is there any credibility to this? Also putting down that much on a lease I know is bone headed, but just want make sure I am not negating a good option based on voodoo.

Thanks so much and cannot wait to get back to the Roundel and enjoy this beast of a machine.

[Fear-Mongrel]

Originally Posted by DDR MFS

I leased my E92 at got it for around 52K with payments in the low 500s and that is where I want to keep my M2. That said, in doing research and with me wanting to keep the car long term, the inclination is to finance or do BMW Select. I read on here and in other reliable car publications that the M2 generally does not lease well. Is there any credibility to this? Also putting down that much on a lease I know is bone headed, but just want make sure I am not negating a good option based on voodoo.

Thanks so much and cannot wait to get back to the Roundel and enjoy this beast of a machine.

The issue with leasing an M2 is the residual - BMW's residuals on the M2 are lower than on other models. I don't believe this is because BMW believes the car will depreciate abnormally, and secondary market numbers show that the M2 ironically actually depreciates slower than its other models, at least so far. It's just that demand has been so strong for the M2 that BMW has not had to subsidize its leases in any way, so the M2 residuals have been set lower than "normal".

For someone who intends to keep the car beyond the lease term, all this means is that you're shifting more of the cost of the car to the front 3 years, to the lease term, and leaving a lower buyout figure at the end. That's all that's happening...you're shifting a larger % of the cost to the front 3 years and leaving less for the post-lease period. For some of us, depending on your financial situation, that can be a good thing. But for someone who intends to ONLY keep the car for the lease term, it means higher payments for those 3 years. Of course, most people overlook the fact that in making those higher payments you likely create an equity position at the end of the 3 years, wherein the car is worth more than its buyout and you can then capture that equity and basically recapture the extra money you've been paying for 3 years, but many people who lease don't want to be bothered with any of that - they just want to hand over the keys after 3 years and get something else without any fuss.

This is what people refer to when they talk about avoiding lease deals on the M2 - the low residuals which create higher lease payments, which creates an equity situation at the end of the lease (car worth more than buyout) which, if you don't capture that equity, is left on the table for the benefit of BMW. This won't apply to you, as you plan on keeping it long term.

You also want to make sure that your dealer is charging a fair money factor on the lease, no differently than you'd want to make sure they're charging a fair interest rate on a loan.

[DDR MFS]

Originally Posted by afwares

The issue with leasing an M2 is the residual - BMW's residuals on the M2 are lower than on other models. I don't believe this is because BMW believes the car will depreciate abnormally, and secondary market numbers show that the M2 ironically actually depreciates slower than its other models, at least so far. It's just that demand has been so strong for the M2 that BMW has not had to subsidize its leases in any way, so the M2 residuals have been set lower than "normal".

For someone who intends to keep the car beyond the lease term, all this means is that you're shifting more of the cost of the car to the front 3 years, to the lease term, and leaving a lower buyout figure at the end. That's all that's happening...you're shifting a larger % of the cost to the front 3 years and leaving less for the post-lease period. For some of us, depending on your financial situation, that can be a good thing. But for someone who intends to ONLY keep the car for the lease term, it means higher payments for those 3 years. Of course, most people overlook the fact that in making those higher payments you likely create an equity position at the end of the 3 years, wherein the car is worth more than its buyout and you can then capture that equity and basically recapture the extra money you've been paying for 3 years, but many people who lease don't want to be bothered with any of that - they just want to hand over the keys after 3 years and get something else without any fuss.

This is what people refer to when they talk about avoiding lease deals on the M2 - the low residuals which create higher lease payments, which creates an equity situation at the end of the lease (car worth more than buyout) which, if you don't capture that equity, is left on the table for the benefit of BMW. This won't apply to you, as you plan on keeping it long term.

You also want to make sure that your dealer is charging a fair money factor on the lease, no differently than you'd want to make sure they're charging a fair interest rate on a loan.

Thanks for the info. Yeh, the goal is to keep the car long term, but keep the low payments manageable for the next year with the option to aggressively pay off the residual or increase the amount I pay by the end of this year. I figure BMW Select, in this instance might be the best option. I am assuming, given I have never done a BMW Select program, that it is going to a measure of the interest rate and residual against the lease MF and residual and making a decision using that criteria.

Is this correct?

[dmboone25]

My local dealer now has 5 on the lot - all of them come with extra M performance parts - I wish those couldn't be added unless they were part of a customer build allocation. Dealers just jacking the damn price up...

Any luck with below MSRP after the year-end frenzy?

[Fear-Mongrel]

Originally Posted by DDR MFS

Thanks for the info. Yeh, the goal is to keep the car long term, but keep the low payments manageable for the next year with the option to aggressively pay off the residual or increase the amount I pay by the end of this year. I figure BMW Select, in this instance might be the best option. I am assuming, given I have never done a BMW Select program, that it is going to a measure of the interest rate and residual against the lease MF and residual and making a decision using that criteria.

Is this correct?

I don't know what the cost of capital is with BMW Select, but you've got the right idea. If, for example, BMW uses the Select program as a way to get borderline buyers with higher risk profiles - I don't know this and I am not saying you are a borderline buyer - and their interest rate is much higher, that could alter your decision. Again, I don't know, just throwing out things to think about, as I don't know what money rate they charge under that program.

And of course, you want to think of the decision in more than just dollars and interest rates. With the BMW Select, as I understand it, the balloon payment is your obligation - you can't walk away from it (someone correct me if I'm wrong). There are plenty of situations wherein a lease, even at a higher monthly cost, may still be advantageous. What if you hate the car and want out after 3 years? What if you suspect your financial situation may change for the worst after 3 years (corporate layoffs, company relocation, downsizing, etc) and you need the flexibility to walk away? What if you suddenly find yourself with the option to relocate to Costa Rica or Prague and you don't want to transport the car? There are non-monetary benefits to a lease that have to be valued - too many people calculate lease costs and forget to properly value the lease benefits. The flexibility to just pull the rip cord and bail out is a benefit that should be valued and included in the decision. Leasing goes beyond just the monthly payment, but not everyone thinks of it in those terms. Figure out the cost of the money, and then also think in terms of what your life is like now and what it may be like and make the decision based on money AND all the rest.

[Fear-Mongrel]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

My local dealer now has 5 on the lot - all of them come with extra M performance parts - I wish those couldn't be added unless they were part of a customer build allocation. Dealers just jacking the damn price up...

Any luck with below MSRP after the year-end frenzy?

Local Scottsdale dealer here did the same...ordered a LBB, loaded it up with just about every option they could, priced at almost $68K, and...cursed it with a DCT. I asked them about it, and if they had any manuals en route, and was told they wouldn't even consider stocking a manual. DCT only at this dealership, no joke. So the car sits collecting dust. It's been there at least 2 months, I think.

[DDR MFS]

Originally Posted by afwares

I don't know what the cost of capital is with BMW Select, but you've got the right idea. If, for example, BMW uses the Select program as a way to get borderline buyers with higher risk profiles - I don't know this and I am not saying you are a borderline buyer - and their interest rate is much higher, that could alter your decision. Again, I don't know, just throwing out things to think about, as I don't know what money rate they charge under that program.

And of course, you want to think of the decision in more than just dollars and interest rates. With the BMW Select, as I understand it, the balloon payment is your obligation - you can't walk away from it (someone correct me if I'm wrong). There are plenty of situations wherein a lease, even at a higher monthly cost, may still be advantageous. What if you hate the car and want out after 3 years? What if you suspect your financial situation may change for the worst after 3 years (corporate layoffs, company relocation, downsizing, etc) and you need the flexibility to walk away? What if you suddenly find yourself with the option to relocate to Costa Rica or Prague and you don't want to transport the car? There are non-monetary benefits to a lease that have to be valued - too many people calculate lease costs and forget to properly value the lease benefits. The flexibility to just pull the rip cord and bail out is a benefit that should be valued and included in the decision. Leasing goes beyond just the monthly payment, but not everyone thinks of it in those terms. Figure out the cost of the money, and then also think in terms of what your life is like now and what it may be like and make the decision based on money AND all the rest.

Yeh, my credit is excellent and I am no way going to commit financial suicide over a car despite how great it is. Life is going to be pretty static so far as staying in the same area and salary increases (in a good way), but I want to think this out and typing it out helps me collect my thoughts. Sorry the monologue.

I would have actually bought out my iS had someone not hit in the last three months of ownership It was the only car I have had with an auto (DCT, whatever), and I really missed stick when off the track and in daily driving and AutoX, hence I like the lease option for the reasons you mention as the car was both hit, and I got bored with the DCT. I still loved the way it pulled and felt, hence me leaning towards hanging on to it.

Been a while for me, but the dealership sets the MF for a lease correct? It is not a set number from BMWFS like the Select interest rate right? The exception would be a lease special I would assume.

All great information. You buy one used car and all this information just gets data-dumped...

[Fear-Mongrel]

Originally Posted by DDR MFS

Sorry the monologue.

I would have actually bought out my iS had someone not hit in the last three months of ownership It was the only car I have had with an auto (DCT, whatever), and I really missed stick when off the track and in daily driving and AutoX, hence I like the lease option for the reasons you mention as the car was both hit, and I got bored with the DCT. I still loved the way it pulled and felt, hence me leaning towards hanging on to it.

Been a while for me, but the dealership sets the MF for a lease correct? It is not a set number from BMWFS like the Select interest rate right? The exception would be a lease special I would assume.

All great information. You buy one used car and all this information just gets data-dumped...

No sorry necessary, I know exactly what you mean - I do it too. Sometimes typing it out helps the brain process.

And you pointed out another benefit of leasing that I thought about including, but didn't want to be dramatic about it so I left it out - the risk of an accident. With a lease, knowing that the accident will be visible to anyone who pulls a Carfax, you just walk away. Plenty of people who scoff at the idea of paying an acquisition fee for a lease, or for absorbing an extra 100 basis points via a slightly higher money factor, would gladly turn back time for the chance to lease if they are in an accident. That flexibility to force the risk of accident-based devaluation back onto the manufacturer definitely has a value, and it's not a trivial one. Same for lemon risk - the risk that you happen to be the one person in a thousand with a bad DCT or something else. The ability to just bail out without having to go the legal route has value as well.

Good question about money factor...BMWFS sets the base money factor, and then the dealer will hope you're an idiot and will attempt to pad that. Ours surely did, until we called them on it. I don't mean modest padding, I mean abusive padding. Depending on situation, you may have to absorb some level of modest padding, but avoid abusive rate padding. Edmunds (am I allowed to post this - apologies if not) has a finance forum where you can get money factors for every manufacturer, so they're easy to get. You want to aim for that base money factor - the base rate set by BMWFS themselves. Don't rely on the dealer to supply that - know it yourself before walking in. The dealer will hope you don't know it, as they did with us, and they'll quote a padded money factor based on the BMWFS money factor + the cost of the finance manager's next golfing vacation.

[djarchow]

Please don't kick me, I do it myself almost on a daily basis. Back in early '16, I ordered an M235i (great deal, got it for invoice). My m235i was on the boat when my dealer called me and told me the buyer for his on order m2 had bailed. It was LBB with the executive package and DST. He said he would let me have it for invoice.

Remember, no kicking me...This was before anyone had received an M2 so no reviews or anything else to go on other than the hype. I did not like the LBB, and even at invoice it was going to be 7 grand more than the M235i. The other big thing was that this was when all the Takata airbag recalls were going on. My 335is hadn't been recalled yet and so I had a great trade-in price from the dealer. They were turning away trades from ones that had been recalled and and the dealer had no idea when the M2 would get released to him. I was worried mine was soon to be recalled so I stuck with my m235 order. I picked it up the day the m2 came in on the truck. My recall letter came a week later.

I kick myself every time I see it driving around town as I will never get a deal like that again. Still don't like the LBB, but the M2 will be my next car.

[Anthony1s]

I got $2518 off of MSRP for my allocation. I was offered that price up front and it was the best deal so I didn't negotiate with them.

That's with ordering a M2, not getting one off the lot. If that makes a difference. And there are no other incentives applied to my discount.

I spoke with a few other dealers in the area to see if they could beat $2518 off and they couldn't.

Also, the dealer I ordered from has a week 8 allocation, which was the soonest of all other dealers.

I feel great about the price I got and can add another $500 off from the BMWCCA discount