[m2tek]

Originally Posted by 3Si

Before I start, this is more of a curiosity than trying to start a flame war as I've been to many even back in the DSG days, one of the first DCTs that started it all. Do you miss the actual shifting or is it the clutch? Is it the action of both, or is it the mental decision making of when to shift.

For me, I'm always in manual mode. Even if I start with auto, the moment I feel I'm not in the right gear, I click on the flappy pedal and I'm back in manual. Unlike PDK, DCT forces you to stay in manual until you move the shifter back to D again. So I usually just shift with the pedals.

At the end, I absolutely agree with you. We need to justify our choice, and this is one of the few forums where a DCT vs Manual discussion doesn't turn into a my dad can beat your dad locked thread.

Great question. For me, it is definitely the action of both AND the mental decision of when to shift. Also, the fact that I can make a mistake and the car won't correct for it. I owned Audi/VWs for a long time and my first ownership experience with these type of transmissions was with DSG during the days when there was fierce debate which ended up turning into "You are not a real driving enthusiast if you don't drive a manual..." vs "Manuals are old technology, I want the fastest thing possible...".

Another reason for my preference for manuals, is they will always feel the same over the years. As time progress, the technology with DSG/DCT/PDK transmissions will change. It will get faster, more seamless. That will make us perceive older cars as slower. And since there will no longer be software updates for the older vehicles to compensate for it, it is quite noticeable when driving. Go driving an old DSG when they first came on the market, or SMG and compare it to today. Where in a manual, it will feel the same, 10 or 20 years later. Again, a perception thing, and everyone will perceive things differently but that is some of the many reasons while I still prefer manual. Eventually I will own another vehicle with a dual clutch transmission, but I'll likely still always keep a manual car around.

[3Si]

The SMG to DSG stage was a big jump. DSG to PDK was more of an evolution. And all the modern DCT are just refinements. The PDK is only marginally quicker IMO. Who are we kidding, ALL transmission will be obsolete soon. The future is going to be electric or some sort of alternative fuel with one single gear. Can't shift faster than that

[m2tek]

Originally Posted by 3Si

The SMG to DSG stage was a big jump. DSG to PDK was more of an evolution. And all the modern DCT are just refinements. The PDK is only marginally quicker IMO. Who are we kidding, ALL transmission will be obsolete soon. The future is going to be electric or some sort of alternative fuel with one single gear. Can't shift faster than that

Yep. The next evolution will be the hybrid electric/gas powertrain that will trickle down from the hypercars we see today. That in parallel with the all electric Tesla variation will dominate the market.

Having driven in a P90D, the acceleration is quite intense. The upcoming Model 3 will be an intriguing proposition in Dual Motor form. Not sure I can get used to the silence though. I need engine/exhaust sounds.

[Destroya]

The next evolution, maybe call it revolution, will be the driverless car. Forget about shifting or even clicking a paddle. Maybe you will still be allowed to participate in the driving experience by pushing a key on the handheld controller.

I'll enjoy my 6 speed MT while I still can.

[blackholescion]

Originally Posted by M2GranCoupeOLEDlights

My questions are:
1. What do your wives think about owning a daily driver manual M2?
2. BE HONEST - is it annoying having to push in the clutch EVERY time to move a few inches in traffic?
3. What have been some moments you regret having bought a manual M2?

Thanks for the useful info!

I don't daily drive my M2 because my wife and I work in the same office. That having been said, she drove a manual for 15 years before getting her recent CR-V so she doesn't mind at all if it were to turn into our DD or she needed to drive it somewhere.

I'm a manual guy through and through so there are no regrets here. I enjoy rowing my gears, regardless of the rev match and all that making the driving experience easier. I enjoy the rev match because it's perfect every time, especially in traffic when conditions aren't perfect (you're in the middle of a rev match, and someone slams on their brakes causing you to slam on yours, etc.)

As for the driving in traffic, absolutely not. The car revs up to prevent stalling so you don't even need the throttle when inching in bumper to bumper traffic or really ever to move just a few inches or feet at a time. Obviously you can move a normal car without throttle if you're careful, but the stall prevention makes it infinitely easier and better feeling. I have never dreaded traffic, but now I mind it even less. Anyway, you just end up giving your left leg some motion instead of just your right releasing the brake with this feature.

The clutch is absolutely too light feeling but that's my only complaint. I came from an STi which meant I didn't skip leg day every time I drove it.

[3Si]

Originally Posted by Destroya

The next evolution, maybe call it revolution, will be the driverless car. Forget about shifting or even clicking a paddle. Maybe you will still be allowed to participate in the driving experience by pushing a key on the handheld controller.

I'll enjoy my 6 speed MT while I still can.

While the technology is almost there, there will be plenty of legal issues to sort out before that is fully implemented. On the other hand, with the push to go electric, I should be able to drive a full electric track car in my life time. The Tesla Roadster would be fun if you didn't need to charge it after 30 mins of track time.

[BruceM]

Originally Posted by blackholescion

I don't daily drive my M2 because my wife and I work in the same office. That having been said, she drove a manual for 15 years before getting her recent CR-V so she doesn't mind at all if it were to turn into our DD or she needed to drive it somewhere.

I'm a manual guy through and through so there are no regrets here. I enjoy rowing my gears, regardless of the rev match and all that making the driving experience easier. I enjoy the rev match because it's perfect every time, especially in traffic when conditions aren't perfect (you're in the middle of a rev match, and someone slams on their brakes causing you to slam on yours, etc.)

As for the driving in traffic, absolutely not. The car revs up to prevent stalling so you don't even need the throttle when inching in bumper to bumper traffic or really ever to move just a few inches or feet at a time. Obviously you can move a normal car without throttle if you're careful, but the stall prevention makes it infinitely easier and better feeling. I have never dreaded traffic, but now I mind it even less. Anyway, you just end up giving your left leg some motion instead of just your right releasing the brake with this feature.

The clutch is absolutely too light feeling but that's my only complaint. I came from an STi which meant I didn't skip leg day every time I drove it.

Agreed. Have you looked at the Ultimate Clutch Pedal? The M3/4 guys have installed a few of those, and report very favorably. So I bought one. Gonna get it installed here shortly. Shorter, stiffer but still progressive pedal throw, by all accounts.

[blackholescion]

Originally Posted by BruceM

Agreed. Have you looked at the Ultimate Clutch Pedal? The M3/4 guys have installed a few of those, and report very favorably. So I bought one. Gonna get it installed here shortly. Shorter, stiffer but still progressive pedal throw, by all accounts.

Haven't heard of it. Do report back with results!

[BruceM]

Originally Posted by blackholescion

Haven't heard of it. Do report back with results!

http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1281442


http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1211871

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by quikM2

Interesting. First person I have ever heard express it and feel that way. I think you might be the exception but interesting none the less.

Actually I rather doubt this person is the exception and it's the same approach that some might take about using a calculator..

"I'll never do math using my brain again because the calculator is faster and it never misses a shift.. er...... I mean it never forgets to " carry the one ..."

[SoCalRob]

Originally Posted by David1

I am past the "manual feels better" topic.

But it does... feel better. -scr

[JetDriver]

6MT all the way. I can't bring myself to buy an automatic sports car no matter how much quicker they claim these DCT's shift than a human being. I just don't feel connected to a car unless I have a manual transmission.

[Pyrat 2]

[Arizona_Steve]

Been driving manuals all my life but this time I went with the DCT.

[M2GranCoupeOLEDlights]

Originally Posted by Arizona_Steve

Been driving manuals all my life but this time I went with the DCT.

And? Do you feel bored or like something is missing?

What changed your mind?

[M+M]

This debate will keep going forever. I am probably as hard out and extreme in my motoring taste and activity as most others. I have never had a DD auto car until the DCT M2 and have other recreational cars which are manual including a flat shifting sequential dog box in a tarmac rally car, which is great at full noise but a pain when just cruising. When buying the M2 and choosing DCT I thought I would be constantly in manual sport or sport+ mode pulling the paddles etc but in reality it took me about 1 week to find it just relaxing to leave it in D mode split equally between comfort and sport. I joke to everyone that it took me 1 week to 'go soft'. I do appreciate the benefits and ease of DCT in daily driving. But still have other full manual cars that require rev matching etc. So for me its just horses for courses and getting the best of all worlds.

[TucErDoc]

Originally Posted by Arizona_Steve

Been driving manuals all my life but this time I went with the DCT.

Another Arizona M2! And DCT no less

[David1]

Originally Posted by SoCalRob

But it does... feel better. -scr

I have been driving manual sporty cars for 30 years. The dct in this car is great. If I could have gotten the manual with no driver aids (rev match) I would have gotten it. The dct is just as fun to me as the manual. But even the best BMW manual Is no where near as good as my S2000 was.

[Norcalmav23]

My M2 is my first DCT/Automatic car. Previous cars were manuals, most recently a highly modified BRZ. I was very nervous about my DCT decision. So far no regrets. It is a lot of fun, shifts are crazy fast, honestly no regrets.

[dcmac]

Great thread.

I'm very close to ordering a manual M2... however I'm anxious for a different reason and it's holding me back from pressing the 'go' button.

Having moved from Australia to the USA recently, it's really, REALLY weird shifting with my right hand. So much so that I worry I'll never be able to be as smooth or coordinated as I was driving like MT's back home.

It's just a weird sensation having the clutch so far from the shifting hand - I always felt this connection with them both near each other in RHD cars.

Something else I found was some difficulty heel-toeing with the footwell sidewall so close to my right heel - i.e. I couldn't rotate the foot enough to get good traction on the gas pedal. Seemed much easier in RHD cars when there's a bit more space between the door sidewall and gas pedal.

That said, I'm basing this anxiety off ONE test drive in a LHD MT here in the States, so I'm hoping I just need time to adapt.

Has anyone else moved countries and felt the same thing? Be interested to know.

[Arizona_Steve]

Originally Posted by M2GranCoupeOLEDlights

And? Do you feel bored or like something is missing?

What changed your mind?

I'm a bit of a technophile and was always going to go to the dark side once Automatics caught up with Manuals. Another thing that swayed me was the extra 7th gear as it seems to me that the 6th gear on the manual was not really tall enough to support extended freeway driving.

Plus I have a lot of fun driving the wife's DCT M4 around, so I know what I'm getting into

[SoCalRob]

Originally Posted by dcmac

Has anyone else moved countries and felt the same thing? Be interested to know.

Several years back, I took a 3 week vacation in the UK which involved a lot of driving. I ended up renting (hiring) a manual transmission car. Of course, it was right hand drive, which felt VERY odd for the first few hours - it was so strange to work the shift knob with my left hand!

However, by the second day, I was totally accustomed to the flipped-around setup and didn't give it much thought the rest of the trip - in other words, it felt fine and natural.

You'll have fun no matter which transmission you select (but, for gosh sakes, get the MT!). -scr