10-23-2019, 05:16 PM | #45 |
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I have VRSF charge pipe and Wagner Evo 1 Competition FMIC and the install and fit was not a problem. It is a 2 piece charge pipe connected by a rubber tube and 2 clamps, so making it fit is easy as long as you tighten those rubber clamps last during install.
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04-30-2020, 06:38 PM | #46 |
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my charge pipe cracked today while getting some food. was full throttle on an onramp and boom, i thought my left front tire had popped. but then didnt notice the wobbles and then noticed the complete lack of power.
ordered a vrsf cp from xph once i got home. i have a wagner dp and ic, no tune. also 8 or 9 track days. 30k miles |
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04-30-2020, 10:19 PM | #47 |
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Charge Pipe
To OP, why would anyone go through the effort of installing an aftermarket IC, and not upgrade the flimsy cheap plastic Charge Pipe? You have to disconnect the CP from IC to install new IC. Why re-install the weak link?
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05-01-2020, 01:51 AM | #48 | |
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05-08-2020, 07:52 AM | #49 |
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Mine is coming on in about two months. Then I will go BM3 Stage One to start with...
I'm gonna look at my stock CP for cracks because I've been a bit underwhelmed over the acceleration of the OG M2. Even though it a lot faster on paper than my previously tuned 335 E92 the tuned 335 felt faster... Maybe because of the turbo lag and sudden kick but still... I would have expected more, therefore I'm going with a Forge Motorsport CP and BM3 Stage 1 to start with. Maybe an intercooler in the future, I know it's money well spent, but time will tell.. |
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05-09-2020, 10:56 AM | #50 | |
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05-11-2020, 09:44 AM | #51 |
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For your data as well, my 2016 M2 had a CP break last Dec at 23,000km only. Completely stock no tune and occasionally run to 7,000rpm.
BMW change for me free as i just had the 3-year servicing 2 weeks ago. The power just gone when I was pushing at close to 7,000rpm!!! |
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05-11-2020, 12:11 PM | #52 |
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I don't think the charge pipe breaking is a boost issue as much as it is a "how hard you drive" issue. When I swapped mine out I noticed two things:
1. The flange section that breaks is very thin in material. As in, between the end of the pipe and the slots that secure the clip. 2. The ribbed flex section, likely designed to account for engine movement, isn't very flexible. I believe as the engine moves during hard shifting, acc/deceleration, etc... its that thin flange area on the pipe that takes most of that force and is the weak spot before the flex part actually flexes. You won't ever see the turbo to IC pipe break because its flexible rubber. |
05-17-2020, 07:57 AM | #53 | |
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It would be interesting to know if the pipe is more prone to cracking on manual vs DTC because my feeling is that a DCT will be cause less "jerkiness". The manual is widely more popular also by drivers who refer to themselves as "enthusiasts" and more likely to take the car to the track. But in general this pipe is built too weak and one can only assume that BMW puts this plastic in the car to save weight and money.. |
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05-17-2020, 07:36 PM | #54 |
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For the record as this thread started off as a "m2's don't really have this issue", My 2016 M2 charge pipe failed earlier this year, BMW replaced it under warranty and 2 weeks later I finally had the time to install the VRSF charge pipe I got from Mike in November. Now I've got a spare pretty much brand new OEM charge pipe that no one wants lol.
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05-17-2020, 07:37 PM | #55 | ||
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05-17-2020, 09:22 PM | #56 | |||
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It's cheaper to use plastic mold when you have high volumes like the N55. |
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05-17-2020, 10:24 PM | #57 | ||||
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Nissan has been using turbo-chargers since the beginning of time, I believe they know a thing or two about its efficiency. Honestly, I rather have to change 10 different OEM plastic pipes, that put some heat-soaking, no-name, aluminum piece. I'm on 32,573 miles and 4 years, with a Dinan stage 1 and my pipe is fine. So, like, whatever.. |
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05-17-2020, 10:59 PM | #58 | |
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The amount of heat absorbed through the chargepipe is so small it is negligible. You could just coat a metal charge pipe with reflective tape and it would insulate it better than the thin factory charge pipe. So your comments on efficiency imo are such a small concern it is honestly just a non issue. The pipes are plastic to make it cheap to produce at large quantities with weird shapes, and they are easier to fit into multiple configurations. I would rather have an aluminum piece made by a reputable company like CTS turbo over the garbage factory piece that could send plastic fragments into the motor when it breaks. Edit - Also it is pretty impressive your factory charge pipes have lasted that long, especially if your car is tuned. Do you drive it hard? Just curious because my m2's factory chargepipes are still holding up despite my m235i's chargepipes blowing stock.
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05-17-2020, 11:06 PM | #59 |
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Oh yeah I forgot to mention, the nismo R34 gtr came with brushed micropolished aluminium chargepipes as an upgraded factory OEM part, so if nissan is the experts in efficiency like you said and is using aluminium charge pipes as an upgrade, then clearly the idea of metal pipes causing heat soak to the extent of it being an issue is non-existent.
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05-17-2020, 11:31 PM | #60 | |
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I'm all for a better part but I have no issue with mines, so I really don't see a reason to put some "CTS" brand part on my car. Like I said, I rather the stock pipe break, several times over, than put something on my car from some fly-by-night company. Funny, the CTS brand aluminum pipe is cheaper than the weaker, plastic, OEM piece : Maybe if a reputable company like Dinan or even BMW M Performance recommend it or offered something better, then I would swap it but since they don't, I'm willing to take a calculated risk and leave it as is. |
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05-17-2020, 11:49 PM | #61 | |
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Fair enough, but I would personally change it out for a part that would not fail so you don't risk sucking in plastic. CTS turbo is not a "fly by night" company, they are a very well known company in the VW/AUDI world and are now entering the bmw world. Their pipes have perfect fitment at the welds are clean and do not have "stalactite" fragments on the inside of the pipe. There is little that can go wrong with these pipes, it literally is a metal tube. Yes, the cts pipe is cheaper than the oem pipe, that is because they didn't charge crazy bmw M taxes or the crazy factory mark up prices that all oems charge. Hence why a bmw oem part sold by bmw is signficantly more expensive than if you go to the company that made the part for bmw. So imo thats a plus that it is cheaper. Dinan may be a more reputable company but I wouldn't call their products better than every other company. For example imo the dinan intercooler sucks, you have to cut parts of the car (iirc) and it has a double core design that effectively stops alot of air flow to the coolers behind it. The CSF intercooler is much better in this regard. The dinan intake is another example of it requiring cutting, because they decided to reuse an old intake design instead of making a new one, and not fitting as good as other companies. Even the Dinan piggy back is a huge compromise vs. a flash tune. The dinan fuel pump thing for bmws is also a huge compromise, it does nothing to increase flow, it just enhances pick up slightly and they charge alot for it. I don't hate on Dinan (I had their stuff in the past) since they offer a warranty to back up their parts, but they are not the end all be all of bmw aftermarket. I also really like their sway bars and definitely plan to get it again. There are other better parts out there.
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05-18-2020, 12:03 AM | #62 | ||
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I guess we have a stalemate and have to agree to disagree on this one but really, maybe I'm ignorant or vain for this but if an upgrade was something BMW officially recommended or actually changed, on their higher-tier models, I would be more inclined to make that leap. Although, I would agree, if you're already pushing heavy boost numbers, past stock, then you maybe as well go with an aluminum pipe. |
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05-18-2020, 12:19 AM | #63 | |
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Here is my logic behind this. With subaru (what I have heard in the community and being part of this community) they knew the EJ257 motor (current sti engine and has been in sti's since the early 2000's, also varients of this motor in the wrx and others) was fatally flawed, in that the car had extremely brittle hypereutetic pistons which were meant to not expand and contract so much resulting in better emissions. That coupled to a really poor tune to meet emissions standards resulted in heavy engine knock. This all added together resulted in EJ257 motors blow ring lands. Since these engines were in so many cars a recall would have costed subaru so much money so they decided to replace these motors no questions asked and with little hassle as they blew, so long as they were within warranty, which was cheaper than recalling all the motors (in a whole lot of cars) as not all cars blew within the warranty period or were as suceptible to blowing (detuned versions like the wrx or forester). This pretty much saved subaru a class action law suit and a massive recall where they would have to fix all these motors in sti's, wrx's, forester etc. In my opinion I believe bmw is doing the same, by not admiting fault on the charge pipe and just replacing them as they fail within the warranty period, because not all cars are driven hard or tuned, so the amount of replacements would be low and cheaper than having to recall this pipe and fix it on the countless number of bmws with these chargepipes. Oh and also they acknowledged this issue on the b58 by making the chargepipe a different design without the weak flange area, and made the plastic so tough it is insane.
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05-18-2020, 04:30 AM | #64 | |
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I also have a 2016.. Are you DCT or manual? |
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05-18-2020, 09:18 AM | #65 | ||
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Now, to be fair, I heard a few stories here of them breaking but I really don't believe it's due to inherent weakness but the shifting motor rips it off, from the throttle body. In fact, plastic is still used on all new model BMW motor including the B58 and S58. |
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05-18-2020, 09:49 AM | #66 | |
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With air to air, you had the TB flange part connected to the engine package which can move, and the IC side connected to your IC which was fixed to the front of the car. The flex section was supposed to alleviate the engine movement and fixed IC, but it doesn't flex nearly as much as it looks like it should which puts more pressure on the flange as the weakest point. All we know based on the data we have from these forums is that there is some kind of statistical risk that it will break on the N55. No idea what that probability is since we don't know the number of warranty claims vs total cars sold. It's likely to be a low number though. There's nothing wrong with not upgrading it based on the low risk, but there's also NOTHING wrong with using an aluminum replacement that can properly flex in the middle with the silicone coupler. |
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