[Mudnut]

Hi All,

I have been a lurker here for some time, and am in the process of getting ready to order an M2 early in the upcoming year. Have recently purchased a 2015 330i LCI sedan, and whilst it is a nice car, it is not special. My wife loves it, as it is easier to drive than her 2015 X5, but it is the first automatic car I have purchased for myself in 35 years of driving. I just don't feel engaged in the driving of this car.

Had a chance to drive an M4 with the DCT, and when in manual mode, had to shift down to 2nd gear to get any engine braking for an upcoming corner whilst traveling at 80kph. Not sure if it was the torque on hand with this engine, or was in too high gear.

Tried briefly to drive in M sport mode, in the city, and I would be traveling at 50kph and the car would be revving to 6000 rpm and staying there. Just not practical, so would not use this in this instance.

I also had an instance when I was in second gear (manual mode) RPM was 2200, and I put my foot down to accelerate. The car lurched several times like I was a beginner driver trying to drive a manual car. 2200 rpm should be adequate engine revs and torque to accelerate from. The dealer who was with me had no answer to this behaviour either. Has this happened to anyone who drives a DCT??

My wife would like the DCT as she can drive the car also (she can drive manuals, but chooses not to). I am concerned with the behaviour of the DCT in the previous instance, along with the apparent lack of engine braking.

I also drove a Mercedes AMG C43 sedan. The automatic transmission in this seemed much more engaging than the DCT in the BMW M4. I was in Sport Plus with the Mercedes, but it was not revving to extremely high revs and staying there unlike the M4 in Sport mode. I could also feel it engine brake as I downshifted through the gears in manual mode.

I don't want to get in a slanging match of which is better DCT vs Manual, or even AMG vs BMW. If I get the DCT I plan on using manual mode predominantly. If I get the manual, will the rev matching eliminate engine braking also?

I know it has probably all been covered before, but most of what I have read is Manual vs DCT threads. I just want some input on the DCT quirks.

These cars are starting at $100k for manual, and $110k for DCT on road here in Australia, This is due to packages offered so not a light decision to make. The AMG is probably $10k more on the road, and no manual option.

Thanks for any input.

Ken

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by RoadRunner///M

DCT pretty much behaves as an auto in non-sport modes. That's the intention. Changes will not be as smooth as an auto. No engine braking.

Manual mode - still has kickdown which is annoying as IMO it should be disabled. I also wish auto upshift at red-line was disabled as should just ping on the limiter. Other than this it engine breaks in gear manual chosen as required.

After my 1M, I got an S3 which has DSG. I hated the DSG initially and resorted to a DSG tune which allowed control of kickdown and upshifts in Manual. Manual mode then behaved as exactly that, manual! I wish manufactures would do this.

In manual mode, it auto kickdowns and upshifts when necessary.

You should've done so earlier yourself instead. Nothing wrong with it fixing your wrong and protecting itself.

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by RoadRunner///M

If I am at 3000rpm and WOT it will kickdown... sorry, I don't want that.

I don't think it would have such behavior if you are sure it's in manual mode. Though I'll verify it myself later.

[Smiley1175]

Originally Posted by RoadRunner///M

Yep, what I said. Well that's not "Manual" is it now?

If I am at 3000rpm and WOT it will kickdown... sorry, I don't want that.
If I hit 7000rpm, hit the limiter as it would do in a MT, don't change up.

Manual mode should have zero automation other than change down to prevent stalling and rev limiter.

In manual mode it doesn't kickdown nor change up. You can hit the rev limiter all day long.

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by Smiley1175

In manual mode it doesn't kickdown nor change up. You can hit the rev limiter all day long.

This. +1

A lot of (biased)misinformation on many forums, including here , but hey that's internet.

And now it's sorted out.

Cheers
Robin(M2 DCT: and loving it, blitzschnell up and downshifting, easy and sporty)

[Franzino]

Originally Posted by Smiley1175

In manual mode it doesn't kickdown nor change up. You can hit the rev limiter all day long.

Correct! I tested this also when test-driving a M2 DCT....

[Smiley1175]

Originally Posted by RoadRunner///M

On the M2, does selecting a paddle +/- in 'D' mode activate 'M' mode and gear selection for a few seconds before returning to 'D' mode, or do you always have to use the shifter to enable 'M'?

Soon as you manually change a gear, either via the paddles or the gear lever the DCT stays in manual mode. You need to tap the gear leaver to the right to toggle to auto mode 'D'.

You can also enter 'M' mode by flicking the gear leaver to the right and it'll stay in this mode until you change it.

The only time the car will shift on its own in manual mode is if the speed drops below minimum for that gear. So you could be in 4th and roll up to a set of lights and it'll select 1st for you, but from there you need to manually upshift.

[3Si]

Originally Posted by RoadRunner///M

Good to know ... that's how it should be.

The F80 definitely did kickdown when I drove it. Perhaps it has other driving modes that affect it?

In DSG, or early PDK, that will happen.

[rouxeny]

I had a similar lurching issue in my e93 m3. It only happened with the "power" button on, and at low speed. I think the throttle was so sensitive that with a light press of the gas, the car accelerated so abruptly, that my foot would slightly come off the gas, leading to deceleration, causing my foot to push back on the gas, leading to acceleration and lift again. The cycle would continue until I either floored it, or lifted entirely. Very weird. I eventually solved it by driving with the "power" off. That made throttle modulation much smoother.

DCT does not auto ups gift or downshift when in sport mode. It does downshift if your speed is too low for the gear.

[David1]

Originally Posted by Smiley1175

In manual mode it doesn't kickdown nor change up. You can hit the rev limiter all day long.

Correct, In manual mode it is full manual unless you come to a stop or slow way down it will select the gear for you. Many ways to drive the DCT.

[David1]

There is little engine braking on modern cars.

[serrated]

DCT definitely engine brakes. That's when it makes the most popcorn!

[David1]

Originally Posted by serrated

DCT definitely engine brakes. That's when it makes the most popcorn!

I have a DCT and the amount of engine braking is not that much compared to older cars. Now lets put an exhaust brake on it, that is real engine braking.

[Brindle101]

Originally Posted by David1

There is little engine braking on modern cars.

This is true. That's why I still love my 6MT e46 m3. 😜

[Pol]

Originally Posted by Smiley1175

Soon as you manually change a gear, either via the paddles or the gear lever the DCT stays in manual mode. You need to tap the gear leaver to the right to toggle to auto mode 'D'.

You can also enter 'M' mode by flicking the gear leaver to the right and it'll stay in this mode until you change it.

The only time the car will shift on its own in manual mode is if the speed drops below minimum for that gear. So you could be in 4th and roll up to a set of lights and it'll select 1st for you, but from there you need to manually upshift.

That's perfectly and briefly explained how the DCT reacts.

[Pol]

Do you guys also have the impression that the popcorn increases after several thousands of kilometres/miles?

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by David1

There is little engine braking on modern cars.

Can someone explain how or why this is? I have the 6MT in my M2 and found this thread while searching for posts on why there's essentially zero compression braking on my car. It really took me by surprise when I first drove my M and I'm still not really used to it. The M2 has a decently high compression ratio. 10.2:1 I think. 3 liters is also a generous engine size. Why is engine braking so minimal? The ECU must keep the throttle body open on deceleration, but why?

[chris719]

I have read several places it's for emissions purposes. Kind of stupid, oh well, you get used to it I am sure.

[lpak]

Originally Posted by Pol

Do you guys also have the impression that the popcorn increases after several thousands of kilometres/miles?

I too have noticed this!For a while i thought maybe my exhaust was not tuned correctly