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      07-01-2019, 07:25 PM   #1
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M2 CS closest to 1M in value hold + long term perspective in electric vehicles future

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Basically wondering if M2CS has any chance to hold its value and not depreciate like others? Any chance it's special like that?
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      07-01-2019, 07:32 PM   #2
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To early to tell. We don’t know pricing and production quantities.
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      07-01-2019, 07:45 PM   #3
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Maybe just a rumor but I heard 2,200
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      07-01-2019, 11:48 PM   #4
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It's a car, so strong to quite strong chance it's going to depreciate. Not sure what to make of the 1M though, not sure why it's holding it's value so well. I know this will likely offend some (sorry), but the 1M didn't drive as well as I would have expected for it's depreciation curve.
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      07-02-2019, 12:12 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by pz619 View Post
It's a car, so strong to quite strong chance it's going to depreciate. Not sure what to make of the 1M though, not sure why it's holding it's value so well. I know this will likely offend some (sorry), but the 1M didn't drive as well as I would have expected for it's depreciation curve.

No offense taken, you either get it or you do not. I think it is absolutely amazing, but you may like something different. I Personally like the 1M (steering/chasis/size) trifecta more than any car I have ever owned, but a M2CS with European Delivery and full warranty is enticing. I just don't know if I could ever go back to EPS steering.....

I will be curious what the final weight savings will be on the M2CS?
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      07-02-2019, 12:27 AM   #6
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No, this will not hold value like a 1M. The 1M was an anomaly. Check out the M4 CS - they are practically giving them away and it is the best / most rare F82.

The car is a slight tweak of an M2C, so you already know what it's going to drive like.

(Note on M4 CS, I didn't forget the GTS exists, but it didn't get a great reception and they also had to heavily discount them)

Last edited by chris719; 07-02-2019 at 02:24 AM..
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      07-02-2019, 01:35 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
No, this will not hold value like a 1M. The 1M was an anomaly. Check out the M4 CS - they are practically giving them away and it is the best / most rare F82.

The car is a slight tweak of an M2C, so you already know what it's going to drive like.
Agreed.

Won't even come close.
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      07-02-2019, 02:31 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
No offense taken, you either get it or you do not. I think it is absolutely amazing, but you may like something different. I Personally like the 1M (steering/chasis/size) trifecta more than any car I have ever owned, but a M2CS with European Delivery and full warranty is enticing. I just don't know if I could ever go back to EPS steering.....

I will be curious what the final weight savings will be on the M2CS?
I dunno, I test drove an M2C for a very short time 2 weeks ago. I didn't feel like the steering was a big issue. I just think that every generation of car has less and less feedback by design. Especially with BMW, where in the base models that is the goal. Customers are demanding more luxury so the base car grows more and more isolated. The M car can only change so many components and the character of the base model is not completely lost.

I think you should look at a Cayman GT4 if you want some of the feedback lost by BMW over the years.

As for M2 CS, the weight savings might be 20-25 kg, but it's mostly from body panels you could retrofit to the M2C. Carbon ceramic brakes would be the biggest tangible improvement if you can option them.
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      07-02-2019, 03:36 AM   #9
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If 2200 units only M2CS is probably a good investment to make a small profit on. Don't expect massive gains though

With car companies releasing countless 'limited edition' models on a yearly basis, the whole 'rarity aspect' has lost a lot of its meaning

Cars like 1M, E85 Z4 M, Z8 and E46 M3 CSL have appreciated value not only because of the rarity factor but also because arguably because they are the last of the real driver cars (hydraulic steering, naturally aspirated, old school feeling).
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      07-02-2019, 05:08 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dav3 View Post
If 2200 units only M2CS is probably a good investment to make a small profit on. Don't expect massive gains though

With car companies releasing countless 'limited edition' models on a yearly basis, the whole 'rarity aspect' has lost a lot of its meaning

Cars like 1M, E85 Z4 M, Z8 and E46 M3 CSL have appreciated value not only because of the rarity factor but also because arguably because they are the last of the real driver cars (hydraulic steering, naturally aspirated, old school feeling).
CSL was SMG, so not sure why people consider it a real driver’s car.
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      07-02-2019, 05:09 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagudelo12 View Post
Basically wondering if M2CS has any chance to hold its value and not depreciate like others? Any chance it's special like that?
No I don't think so. The 1M was not made in volume but the M2 is. They won't make as many CS cars as the base, but the base is so similar to the CS version. You can even buy OEM carbon parts to pretty much turn a base M2 into a CS, then you're a tune away from a CS. The 135i wasn't that close to the 1M.

Also the 1M was the first if it's kind for BMW and last with a hydraulic steering rack. Unless the CS is the last RWD or last manual car BMW makes, which sounds unlikely, it won't avoid depreciation.


You want to avoid depreciation get gt3 touring or the new gt4 when it comes out.
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      07-02-2019, 10:13 AM   #12
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ppl forget the 1m was only made for 2yrs and they only imported a total of 1600 of them. Also at the time ppl were paying $15k above msrp for them new...so in a sense they did depreciate if your comparing the market price and not msrp.

I think the m2cs will hold its value if they make the next gen m2 fwd-awd based on the new 135 platform and bmw makes it a rs3 competitor.
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      07-02-2019, 12:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TemjinX2 View Post
ppl forget the 1m was only made for 2yrs and they only imported a total of 1600 of them. Also at the time ppl were paying $15k above msrp for them new...so in a sense they did depreciate if your comparing the market price and not msrp.

I think the m2cs will hold its value if they make the next gen m2 fwd-awd based on the new 135 platform and bmw makes it a rs3 competitor.
In the U.S. I think the 1M was 2011 only.

But I still don't get why they are holding their value so well. I haven't driven one, so maybe that's why I don't get it. But still, when the M2 came out I expected the 1M values to drop. I think it's mostly the fact that there are so few 1M cars out there that makes them valuable.
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      07-02-2019, 12:17 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by RocketTR View Post
In the U.S. I think the 1M was 2011 only.

But I still don't get why they are holding their value so well. I haven't driven one, so maybe that's why I don't get it. But still, when the M2 came out I expected the 1M values to drop. I think it's mostly the fact that there are so few 1M cars out there that makes them valuable.
probably because its the only turbo M car with hydralic steering and short wheel base from the factory.
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      07-02-2019, 12:30 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketTR View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TemjinX2 View Post
ppl forget the 1m was only made for 2yrs and they only imported a total of 1600 of them. Also at the time ppl were paying $15k above msrp for them new...so in a sense they did depreciate if your comparing the market price and not msrp.

I think the m2cs will hold its value if they make the next gen m2 fwd-awd based on the new 135 platform and bmw makes it a rs3 competitor.
In the U.S. I think the 1M was 2011 only.

But I still don't get why they are holding their value so well. I haven't driven one, so maybe that's why I don't get it. But still, when the M2 came out I expected the 1M values to drop. I think it's mostly the fact that there are so few 1M cars out there that makes them valuable.
You can't buy anything else like it except a molested 135i
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      07-02-2019, 08:24 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dav3 View Post
If 2200 units only M2CS is probably a good investment to make a small profit on. Don't expect massive gains though

With car companies releasing countless 'limited edition' models on a yearly basis, the whole 'rarity aspect' has lost a lot of its meaning

Cars like 1M, E85 Z4 M, Z8 and E46 M3 CSL have appreciated value not only because of the rarity factor but also because arguably because they are the last of the real driver cars (hydraulic steering, naturally aspirated, old school feeling).
I'm curious to know when the above mentioned cars became collectible? Is this a 20/20 hindsight scenerio, or did they immediately hit collector status? I think the best someone can hope for with a depreciating asset is that it depreciates slower than normal and demand remains high. I can see a scenario where early owners could buy and drive it a while for low cost if they sell it before depreciation out paces demand. Buy and drive for 6mo, and then sell it for the price you bought it.
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      07-02-2019, 08:54 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
I'm curious to know when the above mentioned cars became collectible? Is this a 20/20 hindsight scenerio, or did they immediately hit collector status? I think the best someone can hope for with a depreciating asset is that it depreciates slower than normal and demand remains high. I can see a scenario where early owners could buy and drive it a while for low cost if they sell it before depreciation out paces demand. Buy and drive for 6mo, and then sell it for the price you bought it.
1M, M3 CSL and Z8 quite instantly

Z4 M with time became a collectible because it ended up being the only Z car with a real M engine and a good one too

Collectors market is a niche thing though. You really need a pristine condition, low mileage and very special car to actually turn a big profit.

But even then, as per my experience with a used low mileage z4m, an old car is an old car and you will have to deal with a lot of annoying small and big things unrelated to how the car was taken care of.

Last edited by Dav3; 07-02-2019 at 09:12 PM..
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      07-02-2019, 09:50 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pz619 View Post
It's a car, so strong to quite strong chance it's going to depreciate. Not sure what to make of the 1M though, not sure why it's holding it's value so well. I know this will likely offend some (sorry), but the 1M didn't drive as well as I would have expected for it's depreciation curve.
I agree, the car's driving was nice but not legendary... and don't even get me started on how it looks... I passed on one a number of years back mostly due to aesthetics. Kinda like a bug?
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      07-02-2019, 11:57 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
No offense taken, you either get it or you do not. I think it is absolutely amazing, but you may like something different. I Personally like the 1M (steering/chasis/size) trifecta more than any car I have ever owned, but a M2CS with European Delivery and full warranty is enticing. I just don't know if I could ever go back to EPS steering.....

I will be curious what the final weight savings will be on the M2CS?
I dunno, I test drove an M2C for a very short time 2 weeks ago. I didn't feel like the steering was a big issue. I just think that every generation of car has less and less feedback by design. Especially with BMW, where in the base models that is the goal. Customers are demanding more luxury so the base car grows more and more isolated. The M car can only change so many components and the character of the base model is not completely lost.

I think you should look at a Cayman GT4 if you want some of the feedback lost by BMW over the years.

As for M2 CS, the weight savings might be 20-25 kg, but it's mostly from body panels you could retrofit to the M2C. Carbon ceramic brakes would be the biggest tangible improvement if you can option them.
It is to me, I much prefer hydraulic steering.
I also prefer 997/987 hydraulic steering on 911's and Caymans.

Hydraulic is the "feel" that so many enthusiasts reminisce about with older cars. Porsche makes decent EPS, but the cars are rear and mid-engine and much lighter, so they have an easier task, the steering is precise and nicely weighted, but still lacks the hydraulic "feel".
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      07-03-2019, 12:00 AM   #20
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pz619 View Post
It's a car, so strong to quite strong chance it's going to depreciate. Not sure what to make of the 1M though, not sure why it's holding it's value so well. I know this will likely offend some (sorry), but the 1M didn't drive as well as I would have expected for it's depreciation curve.
I agree, the car's driving was nice but not legendary... and don't even get me started on how it looks... I passed on one a number of years back mostly due to aesthetics. Kinda like a bug?
The 1er M Coupe was truly an acquired taste.

It will without a doubt remain quirky cool in its own right.
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      07-03-2019, 01:38 AM   #21
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The 1er M Coupe was truly an acquired taste.

It will without a doubt remain quirky cool in its own right.
I will admit I've never driven a 1M. Have driven N54 135i, at the time I was not impressed compared to Z4M. I'm sure the 1M is much closer than that, but I can't help but think it's possibly overrated. The E8x 1er chassis was really bouncy / snappy and not that progressive. The E85/86 Z4M was not exactly BMW's finest hour either, but you hit understeer earlier and S54 was less likely to get you in trouble with torque.

I also think the E8x 1er is pretty ugly in general. The 1M elevates that status to an acquired taste, as you note .
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      07-03-2019, 07:59 AM   #22
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No they won’t. They are already discounting 2020’s. If it were sooo amazing there is no way there would be discounts now. This is just a great car but no way will it match the 1m hype

Whoops you meant the CS. Hell maybe?!?
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