BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW M2 Forum > BMW M2 Competition Model > "Money shift" on my 6MT M2 Competition - Car engine got replaced

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-22-2019, 02:46 AM   #1
SkyDubBlue
M2_SkyBlue
SkyDubBlue's Avatar
Germany
40
Rep
11
Posts

Drives: 2019 M2 Competition
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Where the Wild Things Are

iTrader: (0)

"Money shift" on my 6MT M2 Competition - Car engine got replaced

BIMMERPOST
     Featured on BIMMERPOST.com
Here’s my money shift for your viewing pleasure

4th to 3rd.
Spun just under 9500rpm.
Piston heads trashed, valves bent, but rods were straight. Crankshaft was irreparable as well. Connection from shaft to crankhub bolt was also destroyed. I had Vargas Turbos crankhub bolt lock on at the time.

Was not stock. Stage 2, Catless Downpipes, EVenturi intake, BMS JB4 as boost controller, Bootmod3 stage 2 aggressive ots.

Car is back on the road as of August ‘19 and more mods are on now.

Feel free to share for science



EDIT by moderator Artemis
  • Story: German (original): here | English raw translation (Google): here
  • Additional video (engine replacement at the owner's expense): here.
On the original F87 M2, M2 LCI and M2 Competition featuring manual transmission, rev-match (auto blip) somehow 'warns' on downshift about over-rev before clutch release in all driving modes, except for DSC OFF mode. The cringing over-rev wail allows you just the moment of realization to refrain from releasing the clutch - you correct the gear shift without damage. However, in DSC OFF mode the driver shifts into a gearbox death trap: no warning 'over-rev wail' prior to releasing the clutch. The driver releases the clutch, followed by 'The Expensive Sound':
  • When you shift into a higher gear, rev-match will not be activated. So you will not hear anything particular. And that's OK, because no over-rev antics.
  • It's only when you shift into lower gear that rev-match will be triggered before you release the clutch (except when driving in DSC OFF mode): as soon as you enter/access the lower gear slot, rev-match is triggered. If you miss-shift, the cringing high-pitched wailing noise of revs unhealthily operating out of scope (impossible for rev-match to 'match' revs under that situation) will immediately catch your attention: almost as a natural 'uh-oh' reflex, you will immediately pull the gear stick out of that (wrong) lower gear slot into neutral whilst keeping the clutch pedal pushed.
Many people wonder why rev-match is hard-coded in all driving modes (except for DSC OFF mode) on the F87 M2 (no "sport"/"auto blip" on/off toggle as on the Cayman GT4). IMHO 'money shift' protection is one of the main reasons (or at least a fringe benefit).
Appreciate 6
AESZ473.00
Kankles1484.50
VipinLJ1936.50
      10-22-2019, 06:29 AM   #2
BroDoze
Captain
140
Rep
748
Posts

Drives: Stuff
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Colorado

iTrader: (0)

Well? How much $ did it cost you?
__________________
///M
Appreciate 0
      10-22-2019, 07:55 AM   #3
warrenw
Food Critic
warrenw's Avatar
South Korea
1084
Rep
1,015
Posts

Drives: 19 AW M2C, 21 M340i
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Seoul

iTrader: (0)

Have you taken it in yet? Thrown rod, spun bearing, what was the final result?
__________________
Appreciate 0
      10-22-2019, 08:40 AM   #4
hlm2c
Lieutenant
United_States
290
Rep
408
Posts

Drives: M2C
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: US/Korea

iTrader: (1)

We need the deets!
Appreciate 0
      10-22-2019, 08:56 AM   #5
nioh_lbbm2
Lieutenant Colonel
nioh_lbbm2's Avatar
1717
Rep
1,899
Posts

Drives: M2
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: California

iTrader: (0)

lmao
Appreciate 0
      10-22-2019, 09:14 AM   #6
chmura
Colonel
chmura's Avatar
1557
Rep
2,504
Posts

Drives: 2019 M2 Competition
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Orange County, California

iTrader: (1)

So did you shift from 2-1 or from 4-3?

Share more details.
__________________
2019 M2 Competition- October 2, 2018 ED
2011 BMW M3 Sedan Alpine White
Picked up via ED 9/27/2011 & Redelivered 11/23/2011 **SOLD**
Appreciate 0
      10-22-2019, 09:48 AM   #7
Picoschu
Private First Class
108
Rep
120
Posts

Drives: 03 E39 M5, 01 325iT, 17 328dxT
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (0)

I remember my first manual lol
Appreciate 15
McPurrs290.00
B202033.00
F82FTW74.50
///M TOWN13117.00
premier3is1627.00
qnet676.00
giuls2218.00
AndrewC198910903.50
      10-22-2019, 02:46 PM   #8
RocketTR
Private First Class
RocketTR's Avatar
124
Rep
128
Posts

Drives: Audi
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

I thought that only happened on modded cars? Are you stock?
Appreciate 0
      10-22-2019, 02:53 PM   #9
Economatic
Second Lieutenant
United_States
174
Rep
218
Posts

Drives: 2020 M2 Comp
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Bend, OR

iTrader: (0)

That's hard to watch...
Appreciate 0
      10-22-2019, 02:56 PM   #10
Conissah
Major
Conissah's Avatar
1575
Rep
1,049
Posts

Drives: 2018 M3
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (1)

Makes me want to cry... Poor car
Appreciate 0
      10-22-2019, 03:00 PM   #11
CosmosMpower
Brigadier General
CosmosMpower's Avatar
2049
Rep
3,714
Posts

Drives: F87c, GT3, MK7 GTI
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Frisco, TX

iTrader: (1)

DCT next time for you
Appreciate 16
VIERsr2620.50
AndrewC198910903.50
Eddien1231849.00
Robin_NL8679.50
B202033.00
FLOSS M385.50
///M TOWN13117.00
Omar8178.00
yayaya102.50
F82FTW74.50
qnet676.00
BigHunk269.50
giuls2218.00
Spov0.00
      10-22-2019, 03:05 PM   #12
Kuervers
Second Lieutenant
80
Rep
231
Posts

Drives: 19 M2C HS,6sp 16 X5 35i
Join Date: May 2016
Location: lloydminster,ab

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketTR View Post
I thought that only happened on modded cars? Are you stock?
google "money shift"
Appreciate 0
      10-23-2019, 07:55 AM   #13
RocketTR
Private First Class
RocketTR's Avatar
124
Rep
128
Posts

Drives: Audi
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuervers View Post
google "money shift"
LOL, I know what money shift is....what I'm talking about is the crank hub issue. Mechancially over-revving an engine will normally result in bent valves (assuming an interference engine), but apparently in these cars the crank hub is an even bigger issue.
Appreciate 1
///M TOWN13117.00
      10-23-2019, 08:40 AM   #14
5.M0NSTER
Lieutenant Colonel
5.M0NSTER's Avatar
United_States
3354
Rep
1,823
Posts

Drives: 2018 Camaro SS 1LE
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Back in Michigan, GO BLUE!

iTrader: (0)

Oh no, sorry to see that man. Totally sux.

I’ve done 4 to 3 instead of 4 to 5 before in my Mustang, but all that did is locked up the rears until I got back on the clutch. It didn’t cause any damage. I think that car had better engine protection from over-revs.

Sorry man, feel for ya.
Appreciate 1
chris7197273.00
      10-24-2019, 10:23 PM   #15
Artemis
Moderator
Artemis's Avatar
28913
Rep
13,047
Posts

Drives: BMW M2 Competition
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

The expensive sound, damn.

Let's not judge the driver for the pilot error (4th gear to 3rd instead of 5th) - these things can happen. Except for DSC OFF mode, rev-match warns on downshift, but as soon as you release the clutch, it's over-revving trouble.

Story: German (original): here | English raw translation (Google): here



Engine replacement:
__________________
///M is art Artemis
Appreciate 2
Robin_NL8679.50
      10-24-2019, 10:50 PM   #16
xswesx
Enlisted Member
45
Rep
30
Posts

Drives: m1
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: usa

iTrader: (0)

thats why I learned to backhand shift

see http://store.uucmotorwerks.com/artic..._technique.htm

never miss a gear with this technique
Appreciate 16
chris7197273.00
smknjoe234.00
B202033.00
hoyas490131.50
VCP1390.00
beanbaguk453.50
MParallel541.50
svr2132.00
Niko ZV118.00
330iToy71.00
Geo_33534.50
Kankles1484.50
      10-26-2019, 03:21 AM   #17
chris719
Major General
7273
Rep
7,252
Posts

Drives: '08 M Roadster
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
Oh no, sorry to see that man. Totally sux.

I’ve done 4 to 3 instead of 4 to 5 before in my Mustang, but all that did is locked up the rears until I got back on the clutch. It didn’t cause any damage. I think that car had better engine protection from over-revs.

Sorry man, feel for ya.
There is no such thing as protection from mechanical over-rev. You can cut fuel or spark or whatever you want, but the engine is going to reciprocate faster than it's supposed to.

Some engines just have more margin built in or you get lucky.
Appreciate 1
      10-26-2019, 03:25 AM   #18
chris719
Major General
7273
Rep
7,252
Posts

Drives: '08 M Roadster
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Do you know how fast you were going? Curious to calculate the exact revs you achieved. The video is too shaky for me to see. I am a little surprised you spun the crank hub as the failure mode here, but maybe I shouldn't be.
Appreciate 0
      10-26-2019, 03:28 AM   #19
chris719
Major General
7273
Rep
7,252
Posts

Drives: '08 M Roadster
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by xswesx View Post
thats why I learned to backhand shift

see http://store.uucmotorwerks.com/artic..._technique.htm

never miss a gear with this technique
+1

I use a less extreme version of this. I use a handshake grip for 1st and 2nd gear shifts, overhand grip for 3rd/4th, backhand for 5th/6th.
Appreciate 2
pizza240746.50
Pic18303.50
      10-26-2019, 06:30 AM   #20
5.M0NSTER
Lieutenant Colonel
5.M0NSTER's Avatar
United_States
3354
Rep
1,823
Posts

Drives: 2018 Camaro SS 1LE
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Back in Michigan, GO BLUE!

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
There is no such thing as protection from mechanical over-rev. You can cut fuel or spark or whatever you want, but the engine is going to reciprocate faster than it's supposed to.

Some engines just have more margin built in or you get lucky.
This margin you speak of is design safety margin for me. The V8 in my Mustang revved up in the money shift situation but only to a point. It stopped at the rev limiter and then I heard squeal from the rear tires. So at 7200rpm the engine had enough drag to significantly slip the rear wheels. I’m honestly not sure how Ford did this, but I’ve done it 2 or 3 times over the 5 years I owned and tracked the car with the same result. The engine never once over revved.

But the exact same behavior more than once is not chance. It’s design. Too bad BMW can’t do that. Perhaps the inertia of a 5L V8 was enough with fuel cut and spark retardation. Perhaps there was more to it. I don’t know. But it’s possible to do.

Last edited by 5.M0NSTER; 10-26-2019 at 06:36 AM..
Appreciate 0
      10-26-2019, 07:02 AM   #21
Caduceus
First Lieutenant
Australia
342
Rep
396
Posts

Drives: 2008 135 (sold), 2017 M2
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
This margin you speak of is design safety margin for me. The V8 in my Mustang revved up in the money shift situation but only to a point. It stopped at the rev limiter and then I heard squeal from the rear tires. So at 7200rpm the engine had enough drag to significantly slip the rear wheels. I’m honestly not sure how Ford did this, but I’ve done it 2 or 3 times over the 5 years I owned and tracked the car with the same result. The engine never once over revved.

But the exact same behavior more than once is not chance. It’s design. Too bad BMW can’t do that. Perhaps the inertia of a 5L V8 was enough with fuel cut and spark retardation. Perhaps there was more to it. I don’t know. But it’s possible to do.
Makes you wonder whether the traction/stability control is braking the rear wheels to prevent the over-rev. It's possible, I suppose.
Appreciate 2
5.M0NSTER3353.50
      10-26-2019, 07:10 AM   #22
5.M0NSTER
Lieutenant Colonel
5.M0NSTER's Avatar
United_States
3354
Rep
1,823
Posts

Drives: 2018 Camaro SS 1LE
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Back in Michigan, GO BLUE!

iTrader: (0)

Oh, good point! That would be quite a good solution! If not you should parent it. Really good idea.

Last edited by 5.M0NSTER; 10-26-2019 at 07:29 AM..
Appreciate 0
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:10 PM.




m2
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST