[AmooManiak]

Of course we are not picking a fight. I think the forum members deserve to know the good, the bad and the ugly with every company, especially when there are so many options to choose from these days.

I wasn't referring to a small claim, especially with the tuning itself. You had an issue right after the tune, with the tune itself. If they didn't cover that then there would be something seriusly wrong because they obviously didn't do something correctly during the tuning proces - which is an issue itself. I would consider this a quality control issue where they didn't check all the parameters after tuning, but I'm not surprised to be honest.

I'm referring to a significant claim where there was engine or drivetrain damage and the dealership had to replace an engine - just as an example. I don't think anyone is worried about the small ticket items, especially related to tuning and/or flashing the DME itself. I'm referring to a big ticket item that caused a signicicant repair. Removing and re-installing the DME is a 5 hour job. That's very insignificant.

Chris is a great sales person to someone who is not familiar with sales. He will talk the product up but is not very good at troubleshooting or delegating the issues when they arise. That's exactly what happened to me. He confindently promised 3 different things, and then went into hiding mode once his talk script no longer applied.

He had already flashed your car. He had no other option but to take responsibility and fix the tune. The fact the the tune itself was not working correclty right after the flash shows how much effort went into ensuring that the customer got a troublefree product.

[MadM2C]

Originally Posted by flybigjet

Didn't you read that I had a claim with a Carbahn tune that was covered under their warranty?

I was having some hesitation at high rpm's on my way back to CO from CA (with a side-detour through OR and WA). I emailed Chris telling him what I was experiencing and sent him a video of my tach as well.

He reached out to me immediately, and Steve Dinan himself called me-- on the 4th of July.

We had a long conversation and he told me explicitly that they "don't hide their tunes" and to take it to my dealer of choice for diagnostics and they would cover all costs.

The dealer did a pull on the DME codes-- I sent that information to Chris at Carbahn, and within a day their Tech had looked it over, and determined something had gotten glitchy in the tune (possibly a bad software flash) and to have the dealership send the DME to them.

I had the dealership pull the DME, send it to them, they reflashed, sent it back to the dealer, and the dealer re-installed. I simply told the dealership's service department what to do and it happened. They handled all of the shipping details.

It was easiest for me to pay the dealer and for Carbahn to reimburse me. I sent them the paid invoice, and I had a check in my hand within a week.

I should point out that it was MY choice to handle payment that way, simply because it was easiest all the way around (and I got points on my card).

Carbahn paid immediately and were great to work with.

I'm sorry that you had a different experience, but based on what I saw, their shop is frankly, amazing and every person I dealt with was extremely professional.

Not trying to pick a fight-- just telling the community what my experience with Carbahn was. It's almost like we dealt with two different shops and people-- that's a little weird.

R.

You have a glitch with the system doesn't really count as a claim in my book.

I think he may be referring to if there is a hefty repair bill that needs to be covered, how will carbahn react then.

[flybigjet]

Originally Posted by MadM2C

You have a glitch with the system doesn't really count as a claim in my book.

I think he may be referring to if there is a hefty repair bill that needs to be covered, how will carbahn react then.

Well, the dealer fees to diagnose, pull, ship, receive and replace the DME were just a bit under two thousand dollars, IIRC.

Pocket change to some, a fair bit of coin to others.

But I'm glad I didn't have to pay it.

R.

[TheoIam]

There will always be some bad experiences. All company’s are not perfect. The thing is that one bad experience gets the most press. The people that had the best experience stay quiet because there is nothing to talk about. I fully support CarBahn as my experience was flawless and months later I am still loving my stage 1 tune. I let friends drive my car and they are blown away by the difference. None of us are perfect.

[sai_dee]

Originally Posted by TheoIam

There will always be some bad experiences. All company’s are not perfect. The thing is that one bad experience gets the most press. The people that had the best experience stay quiet because there is nothing to talk about. I fully support CarBahn as my experience was flawless and months later I am still loving my stage 1 tune. I let friends drive my car and they are blown away by the difference. None of us are perfect.

Agreed, I had my Carbahn tune done at the dealership and it's easily the best money I spent.

If I didn't browse the forums, no one would even know. It's only went things go awry and aren't resolved in a typical manner do people start looking into other outlets to get a proper resolution.

[AmooManiak]

Originally Posted by MadM2C

You have a glitch with the system doesn't really count as a claim in my book.

I think he may be referring to if there is a hefty repair bill that needs to be covered, how will carbahn react then.

Exactly. This issue was created from Carbahn flashing the car incorrectly and not doing quality control to ensure the customer is leaving with a properly working tune. Of course they would need to fix this, especially after the customer already paid. This is not a claim that resulted from too much power due to the tune, but a claim as part of the tuning process that they messed up

Originally Posted by flybigjet

Well, the dealer fees to diagnose, pull, ship, receive and replace the DME were just a bit under two thousand dollars, IIRC.

Pocket change to some, a fair bit of coin to others.

But I'm glad I didn't have to pay it.

R.

My dealership charges $500 to remove, unlock and re-install the DME. This is a BMW dealership.

I can't see how shipping it would result in close to an additional $1,500. Didn't Carbahn do all the "work" after they received the DME from the dealership to fix the issue they created? This is not something that they would bill BMW.

In either case - this is a quality control issue that Carbahn created and should not have come to in first place. This alone would be a concern for me. It's not a typical claim as a result of the car having more power where BMW denied an engine replacement that Carbahn had to cover. I'd love to hear of someone who (for example) had the crank hub go out and BMW denied the claim due to a tune.

[AmooManiak]

Originally Posted by TheoIam

There will always be some bad experiences. All company’s are not perfect. The thing is that one bad experience gets the most press. The people that had the best experience stay quiet because there is nothing to talk about. I fully support CarBahn as my experience was flawless and months later I am still loving my stage 1 tune. I let friends drive my car and they are blown away by the difference. None of us are perfect.

I think you are missing the point here. None of us are perfect and no one is questioning the added power - but when an issue arrises, a car company that wants support from a community should not let the customer do all the troubleshooting and continously provide incorrect information about THEIR tune. This is called post sale support, which they were clearly lacking despite giving me the runaround. This even resulted in the dealership giving me a loaner car for 2 days due to what Carbahn said the dealership needs to do, and that again was incorrect information.

After their initial tool didn't work Carbahn said: "Go to dealership, they will tune it via OBD2 and it will only take an hour."
Translation: The dealership had to give me a loaner car for 2 days, after troubleshooting and removing the DME they said it can only be bench unlocked and that Carbahn gave me wrong informaiton.

Any other company in any other business would at least apologize for wasting so many peopeles' time. Not Carbahn.

On the other hand, the positive experience that you had with Carbhan I had with BM3. Funny part is, BM3 actually has software and gave me the correct answer and clear directions after the first email while Carbahn couldn't do it after a month of pointing the finger at others. You are paying 2x more for the Carbahn tune yet getting an inferior product where they don't even have the right tools to diagnose the issue.

[TheoIam]

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

I think you are missing the point here. None of us are perfect and no one is questioning the added power - but when an issue arrises, a car company that wants support from a community should not let the customer do all the troubleshooting and continously provide incorrect information about THEIR tune. This is called post sale support, which they were clearly lacking despite giving me the runaround. This even resulted in the dealership giving me a loaner car for 2 days due to what Carbahn said the dealership needs to do, and that again was incorrect information.

After their initial tool didn't work Carbahn said: "Go to dealership, they will tune it via OBD2 and it will only take an hour."
Translation: The dealership had to give me a loaner car for 2 days, after troubleshooting and removing the DME they said it can only be bench unlocked and that Carbahn gave me wrong informaiton.

Any other company in any other business would at least apologize for wasting so many peopeles' time. Not Carbahn.

On the other hand, the positive experience that you had with Carbhan I had with BM3. Funny part is, BM3 actually has software and gave me the correct answer and clear directions after the first email while Carbahn couldn't do it after a month of pointing the finger at others. You are paying 2x more for the Carbahn tune yet getting an inferior product where they don't even have the right tools to diagnose the issue.

I totally understand. I’m not questioning your bad experience. I would be super pissed also. Seriously. I am just showing the other side. I would not call it an inferior product btw. Mine is everything promised. I’m sure there are also BM3 horror stories. All company’s have them. They are not immune . You just chooses to praise BM3 because of the good experience. Same with me and CarBahn.

I just want people to know they are not always the shit company you are making them out to be that’s all. Peace bro.

[AmooManiak]

Originally Posted by TheoIam

I totally understand. I’m not questioning your bad experience. I would be super pissed also. Seriously. I am just showing the other side. I would not call it an inferior product btw. Mine is everything promised. I’m sure there are also BM3 horror stories. All company’s have them. They are not immune . You just chooses to praise BM3 because of the good experience. Same with me and CarBahn.

I just want people to know they are not always the shit company you are making them out to be that’s all. Peace bro.

I know they are not inferior when it comes to the actual tune/results itself, but inferior because they can't seem to figure out who their tune works with and what's needed to get it to work.

By product I'm talking about the overall experience and the software available for the customers even before purchasing. Overall, most Stage 1 tune are fairly similar.

[S2000_Europe]

Originally Posted by ptper

Rereading the chain of events, I think supplying the VIN was not enough. If you received recent software updates regardless of whenever it rolled off the production line, you would be SOL. On their website, it states:

**Vehicles that have had a software update from a BMW dealer, or new vehicles delivered after June 2019 have an updated bootloader block that currently prevents OBD flashing. In this case,the DME will have to be sent to Carbahn Autoworks for bench loading.

I had an M2C 2020 and took off the DME, 45 min work, and sent it to Carbahn.


Know I have an M3 ZCP 2017 with the software update, ISTA F020-21-03-530 and other tuner was able to tune the M3 remotely.

it seems that each tuner has a different way of tuning?

[SOM2C]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

Go with Carbahn.

Here is why:

1. Go listen to the Steve Dinan episode in the podcast on The Smoking Tire.

2. Go listen to the one on the Do It for a Living podcast.

3. Go watch the Drive interview on YouTube with Steve while he was still at Dinan.

4. Call Chris at Carbahn and ask him all of your questions. Especially the warranty questions.

If those 4 things alone don't convince you to go with Carbahn over Dinan, then I would be surprised.

Not to knock on Dinan the company, as I'm sure they are great, but I rather put my money with the guy who was indisputably integral to its success and his new company (not to mention his deep personal relationships with BMW), than the new PE owners. That's just my opinion.

Also, after having driven an M2C 6MT for an extensive period of time with Carbahn's stage 1, all I have to say is holy hell thats worth every penny. I only drove a Dinan one for a little bit of time, and while definitely an improvement, didn't really feel like the Carbahn one (though to be fair didn't have equal seat time). All in all, both will show just how undertired the M2C is from the factory.

By the way, the Carbahn tune on manual made driving efficient mode much easier than it used to be on a 6MT, and sport mode is a whole different animal.

One thing I will say though, is that Dinan will void your warranty if you mix it with unapproved engine mods. Carbahn will too, unless you disclose it at the time you flash the tune and put it on your warranty paperwork - just talk to Chris at Carbahn about it.

Lastly, not affiliated with any company, just did a ton of research.

This! Just to add a 5th reason, go watch the most recent Steve Dinan episode in the podcast on The Smoking Tire. Steve Dinan just has fantastic understanding of tuning cars, let alone BMWs. He really knows how to unlock the true potential of these ultimate driving machines!

[TheoIam]

Checking in yet another 4 months later after seeing this thread rise to the top. Still ZERO issues with my CarBahn Stage 1 tune and I STILL whole heartedly recommend it for anyone with an M2C. Best mod I have done to my car and I would do it again in a heartbeat.

[GmizM2c]

Originally Posted by TheoIam

Checking in yet another 4 months later after seeing this thread rise to the top. Still ZERO issues with my CarBahn Stage 1 tune and I STILL whole heartedly recommend it for anyone with an M2C. Best mod I have done to my car and I would do it again in a heartbeat.

Can you offer some feedback? I have a 19 with 14k miles I spoke to Chris yesterday and I'm pretty much sold but the only issue I have is I'm afraid I'm going to hate the tune because it's going to be too much power. Once I flash back the damage is already done in terms of warranty.

Can you offer some insight on how the tune feels versus stock, any CELs or weird behaviors along the power band?

I do have 12 months of warranty left which I already expressed the concern to Chris and he told me not to worry with their warranty.

My local carbahn authorized spot is about an hour away from me so not terrible, it's in northern New Jersey and I'm downstate New York.

Thank you again I really appreciate any and all information you can provide

[Anonymoose]

Originally Posted by GmizM2c

Can you offer some feedback? I have a 19 with 14k miles I spoke to Chris yesterday and I'm pretty much sold but the only issue I have is I'm afraid I'm going to hate the tune because it's going to be too much power. Once I flash back the damage is already done in terms of warranty.

Can you offer some insight on how the tune feels versus stock, any CELs or weird behaviors along the power band?

I do have 12 months of warranty left which I already expressed the concern to Chris and he told me not to worry with their warranty.

My local carbahn authorized spot is about an hour away from me so not terrible, it's in northern New Jersey and I'm downstate New York.

Thank you again I really appreciate any and all information you can provide

FWIW - Hendrick BMW of Southpoint is Carbahns number 1 customer for tunes actually.

[RobTile]

Can you offer some feedback? I have a 19 with 14k miles I spoke to Chris yesterday and I'm pretty much sold but the only issue I have is I'm afraid I'm going to hate the tune because it's going to be too much power. Once I flash back the damage is already done in terms of warranty.

Can you offer some insight on how the tune feels versus stock, any CELs or weird behaviors along the power band?

I do have 12 months of warranty left which I already expressed the concern to Chris and he told me not to worry with their warranty.

My local carbahn authorized spot is about an hour away from me so not terrible, it's in northern New Jersey and I'm downstate New York.

Thank you again I really appreciate any and all information you can provide

I'm in NY and went to the shop your talking about. Steve was on point
So I had a 19 that was tuned for 3-4 weeks before it got totaled. I was able to get a 21 which means no tune as of yet.
I might as well be driving a Pinto because it's like a dog compared to the Carbahn stage one. Go for it.
I've had some pretty fast tuned cars ie. 07 GT500, 03 Terminator and all I could say is in the tuned 19 m2 it was really fast and fun at any spot in the power band but from 85-125 the car was like a rocket. If this 21 can't be tuned I don't think I'll keep it

[RobTile]

And if you hate it we will all pitch in and reimburse you

[TheoIam]

Originally Posted by GmizM2c

Can you offer some feedback? I have a 19 with 14k miles I spoke to Chris yesterday and I'm pretty much sold but the only issue I have is I'm afraid I'm going to hate the tune because it's going to be too much power. Once I flash back the damage is already done in terms of warranty.

Can you offer some insight on how the tune feels versus stock, any CELs or weird behaviors along the power band?

I do have 12 months of warranty left which I already expressed the concern to Chris and he told me not to worry with their warranty.

My local carbahn authorized spot is about an hour away from me so not terrible, it's in northern New Jersey and I'm downstate New York.

Thank you again I really appreciate any and all information you can provide

This is further back in the thread but this was the post that made me go get it and its a very fair assessment and a good read. I am reposting here:

Originally Posted by flybigjet View Post
Ok-- I've been busy on a road trip, visiting family and friends and doing the Detail Jobs From Hell on three cars (ugh!), but I finally have some time to put down some thoughts on Carbahn:

The Carbahn shop is more or less in an industrial park in San Jose, and when you walk in-- WOW-- SPOTLESSLY clean. Three (count 'em-- THREE) Audi R8 race cars, a bunch of other pricy toys, another M2 on the rack (with about $50k into it so far), and their own machine/CNC area where they were turning out hub cranks from OEM BMW parts. Lots of lifts, very happy techs, and a lot of money on the hoof. Steve Dinan must be doing ok since he had a brand-new M8 sitting outside (with the outer edges of the tires already scalloped and worn!)

Chris was great-- gave me a very nice tour, introduced me to Steve Dinan, and gave me a loaner car at no cost for the time my car was in the shop. Since I was staying about 75 miles away with plans for the weekend, that was much appreciated. I planned on dropping off the car on a Thursday and picking it up on Monday, but they got things done quicker than I thought, so I was able to go back and pick it up on Friday afternoon. This allowed me to drive the car around Napa that weekend, which was a lot of fun.

I had a Mishimoto heat exchanger, VTT CBC, charcoal filters removed, Mishimoto oil catch can and OEM M4 intakes installed. The Mishimoto fit well AND has a stone guard, so that's good. The VTT CBC was installed STRICTLY for peace of mind (Yes, I know it's not the "real" solution, but it's also not 18 hours of labor). Chris didn't seem to have much of an opinion either way on the part. If I was going to go "nuts" on a build, I'd go for the full SCH fix, but not for a mild tune. As for the M4 intakes? In Chris' words-- "You might be on to something there". When they installed them, they did find that the intake "slot" on the vertical arm that the M4 parts clip to was a little worrysome-- they thought that it might negate the point of the M4 intakes, so they patched them up so the new intakes were the only point drawing air. In retrospect, I should have ordered the M4 vertical arms. Live and learn-- but now air's drawing from the kidney grills on either side of the heat exchanger.

Carbahn doesn't backdate the DME, so if you're locked, you're out of luck with the tablet and any future updates (Grr). Chris says they're soliciting resume's for someone to crack the DME, so if you're a tech-jockey, throw your hat into the ring so we can get that sorted! Anyhow, they don't actually remove the DME-- they remove the "air" attachments on the intercooler, sort of "flop" it out of the way, and attach their tuning machine directly to the DME-- at least that's how it was explained to me.

As to the software, I chose it BECAUSE it was a "mild" tune WITH warranty (and no, nothing I had installed is an issue with the warranty). I figure a blown motor is a LOT of money, and $750 wouldn't remotely cover Carbahn's costs-- I read that as they were VERY confident in their tune. I also liked that all reports to date were that it was very "BMW-like" and drove a lot like stock, but with additional power.

I agree with that assessment..... mostly.

The good? You have TONS of torque on demand-- the turbos "feel" like they spool a bit quicker/lag a bit less, and the "literally press you back into the seat" portion of the rpm gauge (i.e. Fun Band) seems to be very strong from about 3000-6000 rpm. It's a full-on hoot, and it's a great party trick to put the hp/tq gauges up on the center screen and watch the hp needle rapidly rise and the tq needle pretty much instantly get buried north of 480. Not particularly accurate, but fun to watch, nonetheless. And just flooring it in sixth on a highway off-ramp and being pushed back into your seat? Kind of cool.

The bad? The throttle is *very* twitchy in a MT from 1-2 and a bit less so on 2-3 shifts-- enough that I called Chris to confirm that there was nothing wrong with the tune. His response was that basically, that's the way it is and that he'd noticed that the clutch was more or less an "on/off switch" after the tune. Of course, he also noted that you could spin the wheels all the way through third gear with little to no effort, so there is that. Efficient is fine as long as you're smooth on the clutch (but the little "pop" that was there before is now a bit exacerbated). Sport feels like Sport+, and it's a challenge to be smooth with it, especially during "spirited" driving. I just gave up on Sport+-- almost 40 years of driving exclusively MT, and I felt like it was the first day I'd ever tried to row the gears. Supposedly the fix is to install the UCP (which is sitting in my garage waiting for me to get home) and/or the CDV delete. I'll be doing the UCP as soon as I get back and will consider the CDV delete when I get the SSK installed.

What else? The rev's climb a LOT faster than you're used to-- which can make starting on a hill sort of a challenge, but once you get used to the feel, that becomes a non-event. It's possible that installing the M4 intakes and/or removing the charcoal filters made a difference on throttle response as well, but since everything was done at once, there's no way to quantifiably determine that. Chris did mention that pulling the charcoal filters is pretty much the first thing they do to any car they get. He mentioned getting 10-15 hp on the dyno by removing them in other (non-M2) cars, but that certainly seems like a lot to me. I can't hear any more intake noise but a) I'm hard of hearing having been around jets for over 35 years and b) I installed the 2-series sound blanket on the underside of my hood.

Also-- I did not get the extra "start up roar & burbles"-- I vacillated about it for a while, but after talking to Chris, he talked me out of it. The car's plenty loud to my old ears and I didn't want to scare the neighbors, and the burbles sort of get old as it is. I wish I could have heard it before I had to make a decision, but I'm fine with how things sound-- it's basically stock on startup and burbling-- I'll eventually (probably) get the Dinan exhaust, so that will liven up the exhaust not a bit as well.

Overall? The tune is a hoot, and it just *begs* you to be a hooligan. I haven't done much in MDM as a) I didn't want to get an unpleasant surprise in all of the twisties since I'm still learning the new power profile and b) I didn't want to scare my sister or father silly with the car, but with DSC on, you'll get the light flickering in first, second and third gear at full throttle. It's also very obvious that the car is now significantly undertired-- I'll take steps on that as soon as I burn the stock rubber off the rims. I'll go up +1 with Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires (255/35 & 275/35) when I do replace them-- I'd like to go +2 actually, but don't want to worry about rubbing on the front fender liners (thanks, BMW!)

My final impression? the tune is fun as hell-- it's basically the stock power curve-- intensified, and it would be pretty much perfect if the throttle wasn't so twitchy due to the quicker rpm spinup. I'm hoping the UCP and/or the CDV will solve that (relatively) minor issue and I'll be a happy man, indeed. I'm pleased to recommend the tune, with the caveat that a UCP and/or CDV delete will be in my future

[GmizM2c]

Originally Posted by TheoIam

This is further back in the thread but this was the post that made me go get it and its a very fair assessment and a good read. I am reposting here:

Definitely a great assessment, the twitchy throttle is a drawback for me though, but then again it may just be relearning the initial takeoff.

[TheoIam]

Originally Posted by GmizM2c

Definitely a great assessment, the twitchy throttle is a drawback for me though, but then again it may just be relearning the initial takeoff.

I will comment that it only happens while in Sport+ and can be challenging in around town stop and go.

I solved this by making M1 efficient mode and M2 Sport+ (You don’t get the twitchy throttle in efficient mode).

I am in M1 in stop and go and in town. M2 is selected for any freeway or back road driving.

That said I have learned how to control the take off even in Sport+ around town and now mostly just keep it there. I hope that helps.

[methkingM2C]

Carbahn 500hp/455torque

This sucks… torque is what makes a car fun

[CKr]

Originally Posted by TheoIam

I will comment that it only happens while in Sport+ and can be challenging in around town stop and go.

I solved this by making M1 efficient mode and M2 Sport+ (You don’t get the twitchy throttle in efficient mode).

I am in M1 in stop and go and in town. M2 is selected for any freeway or back road driving.

That said I have learned how to control the take off even in Sport+ around town and now mostly just keep it there. I hope that helps.

I’m curious why you decided to set M1 to Eco if the twitchy throttle only happens in Sport+; How’s regular Sport mode with the Carbahn tune?

[TheoIam]

Originally Posted by CKr

I’m curious why you decided to set M1 to Eco if the twitchy throttle only happens in Sport+; How’s regular Sport mode with the Carbahn tune?

I will have to test that out. I never really drive in Sport. Kind of an all or nothing mentality I guess. HA!

I suppose because if I am in stop and go traffic or in light to light idiocy downtown I don’t need to be in full blown Sport+.