[Nezil]

My car is a 2018 6MT OG M2, and currently has the following performance mods:

• CSF FMIC
• FTP Boost & Charge Pipe
• Fabspeed Sport Cat
• DV+ with main spring
• NGK 97506 plugs
• BM3
• PS4S Tyres (yes, over the stock Contis I had, this is a performance mod!)

And I'm wondering what to do next. I guess my number one complaint is that the car seems to run out of steam at high revs, and I also dis-like the lag between shifts being 6MT.

It's not exactly that I have money burning a hole in my pocket, but it's my 40th birthday soon, and my wife has agreed to let me blow some money on something, and I'm considering spending it on the car.

The pump gas in my area sucks. So does most of the west coast, but my area appears to be worse than other regions. Getting E85 is quite easy for me, and it's not that annoying to keep a few gallons in the garage and add 2 to each fill up. I found that my stock HPFP can't handle more than 2 extra gallons of E85 to a tank, which nets out to about E20, so adding more E85 to increase octane isn't really an option with the stock HPFP. Race gas is available fairly close by, but it's really expensive, even just to mix with regular pump gas for a daily driver.

The things I'm currently considering, and why, are:

PS2 + custom tune: A PS2 should improve some of the octane issues I have with my pump gas, simply because it's working less hard and it will be keeping IATs lower.

XDI-35 HPFP: This would allow me to run more E85, potentially making up for the lower octane. I'm not sure the exactly how much more E85 this would allow for, but it certainly can't harm.

Water / Meth Injection: This is my least favourite idea, simply because I like a clean install and no-one has made a nice trunk mounted solution yet for the M2 yet. It also concerns me that if I use Meth to increase octane, I'm dependent on it, and that worries me.

I'm also slightly uncomfortable about the metering systems controlling meth injection. BM3 uses the DME, but the DME doesn't control the meth, so what safety margins are you sacrificing for this.

Upgraded suspension: Last year, on vacation in England, I got to experience the Litchfield coil-over suspension system developed with AST and was very impressed at the time. Having said that, changing from Conti shit to PS4S transformed the ride comfort of the car already, making it far more compliant and quieter, so I'm not sure just how much of an improvement I'd notice for street driving with a coil-over setup.

M2 Convertible: Something left-field I know, but ever since I bought my M2, I've loved the thought of an M2 convertible, and it might be a fun project to buy an insurance write off M2 (for the drivetrain, suspension and undamaged body panels) and something like a used 228i and build an M2 convertible. I know this has been done before in Europe, but I've not seen this in the US, and I think it would look great.

What do you guys think?

[SeanWRT]

Trade it in for a 991.2 Convertible/Targa S/GTS.

[Nezil]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

Trade it in for a 991.2 Convertible/Targa S/GTS.

Haha, would love to, but it's out of my price range.

Also... not sure if it was obvious from my earlier post, but I enjoy the sense of achievement I get from working on my car. That could be simply detailing it, applying PPF or Window Tint, both of which I did myself and taught myself to do, but also more mechanical work. There is a part of me that wants to fit both the PS2 and HPFP just for the fun of doing it!

[SeanWRT]

You seems to care a lot about fast responding. With PS2 you'd perceive even more lag which is from turbo, without the quickly downshifting DCT. However, I'm under the impression that you're not determined to take full power advantage of the bigger turbo, not that the octane allows though. In that way, the laggy big turbo could possibly ruin your whole experience, especially with MT, if you don't know what you're going to get.

You can trade in for a M2C to have it all. However, then the DIY part of you are left unsatisfied...

[mike@x-ph.com]

Pure Stage 2 + BMS methanol injection kit will help deliver a lot more power.

[ddk632]

If you like how the car drives on PS4S and stock suspension and alignment, you will feel like you're driving a different car with some Ohlins and a proper alignment.

That being said, depends on where you mostly get fun out of your driving.

If you're not going to the mountains on weekends, you might not care as much about suspension as others that do.

For more power without meth I like the idea of HPFP and E85.

I'm also curious if your tune isn't making use of the CSF, as its larger than stock and can add lag, but a tune should compensate that and let the DV+ shine.

I recently installed a 5" Wagner FMIC and the DV+ and the lag between shifts is gone completely (or close) on shifts above 5000rpm and is greatly reduced below. I'm not running any tune. Maybe something to look into for that lag you're experiencing. I have a 6MT so that may also contribute to some difference.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Nezil

My car is a 2018 6MT OG M2, and currently has the following performance mods:

• CSF FMIC
• FTP Boost & Charge Pipe
• Fabspeed Sport Cat
• DV+ with main spring
• NGK 97506 plugs
• BM3
• PS4S Tyres (yes, over the stock Contis I had, this is a performance mod!)

And I'm wondering what to do next. I guess my number one complaint is that the car seems to run out of steam at high revs, and I also dis-like the lag between shifts being 6MT.

It's not exactly that I have money burning a hole in my pocket, but it's my 40th birthday soon, and my wife has agreed to let me blow some money on something, and I'm considering spending it on the car.

The pump gas in my area sucks. So does most of the west coast, but my area appears to be worse than other regions. Getting E85 is quite easy for me, and it's not that annoying to keep a few gallons in the garage and add 2 to each fill up. I found that my stock HPFP can't handle more than 2 extra gallons of E85 to a tank, which nets out to about E20, so adding more E85 to increase octane isn't really an option with the stock HPFP. Race gas is available fairly close by, but it's really expensive, even just to mix with regular pump gas for a daily driver.

The things I'm currently considering, and why, are:

PS2 + custom tune: A PS2 should improve some of the octane issues I have with my pump gas, simply because it's working less hard and it will be keeping IATs lower.

XDI-35 HPFP: This would allow me to run more E85, potentially making up for the lower octane. I'm not sure the exactly how much more E85 this would allow for, but it certainly can't harm.

Water / Meth Injection: This is my least favourite idea, simply because I like a clean install and no-one has made a nice trunk mounted solution yet for the M2 yet. It also concerns me that if I use Meth to increase octane, I'm dependent on it, and that worries me.

I'm also slightly uncomfortable about the metering systems controlling meth injection. BM3 uses the DME, but the DME doesn't control the meth, so what safety margins are you sacrificing for this.

Upgraded suspension: Last year, on vacation in England, I got to experience the Litchfield coil-over suspension system developed with AST and was very impressed at the time. Having said that, changing from Conti shit to PS4S transformed the ride comfort of the car already, making it far more compliant and quieter, so I'm not sure just how much of an improvement I'd notice for street driving with a coil-over setup.

M2 Convertible: Something left-field I know, but ever since I bought my M2, I've loved the thought of an M2 convertible, and it might be a fun project to buy an insurance write off M2 (for the drivetrain, suspension and undamaged body panels) and something like a used 228i and build an M2 convertible. I know this has been done before in Europe, but I've not seen this in the US, and I think it would look great.

What do you guys think?

Why not focus on making it weigh less?

Do wheels, rotors, brakes, hood, battery, back seat removal, and lite weight front seat upgrades.

You can sell your wheels, brakes, and front seats to offset some of the cost.


Might as well do suspension if you do this.

[M Fifty]

Originally Posted by Nezil

My car is a 2018 6MT OG M2, and currently has the following performance mods:

• CSF FMIC
• FTP Boost & Charge Pipe
• Fabspeed Sport Cat
• DV+ with main spring
• NGK 97506 plugs
• BM3
• PS4S Tyres (yes, over the stock Contis I had, this is a performance mod!)

And I'm wondering what to do next. I guess my number one complaint is that the car seems to run out of steam at high revs, and I also dis-like the lag between shifts being 6MT.

It's not exactly that I have money burning a hole in my pocket, but it's my 40th birthday soon, and my wife has agreed to let me blow some money on something, and I'm considering spending it on the car.

The pump gas in my area sucks. So does most of the west coast, but my area appears to be worse than other regions. Getting E85 is quite easy for me, and it's not that annoying to keep a few gallons in the garage and add 2 to each fill up. I found that my stock HPFP can't handle more than 2 extra gallons of E85 to a tank, which nets out to about E20, so adding more E85 to increase octane isn't really an option with the stock HPFP. Race gas is available fairly close by, but it's really expensive, even just to mix with regular pump gas for a daily driver.

The things I'm currently considering, and why, are:

PS2 + custom tune: A PS2 should improve some of the octane issues I have with my pump gas, simply because it's working less hard and it will be keeping IATs lower.

XDI-35 HPFP: This would allow me to run more E85, potentially making up for the lower octane. I'm not sure the exactly how much more E85 this would allow for, but it certainly can't harm.

Water / Meth Injection: This is my least favourite idea, simply because I like a clean install and no-one has made a nice trunk mounted solution yet for the M2 yet. It also concerns me that if I use Meth to increase octane, I'm dependent on it, and that worries me.

I'm also slightly uncomfortable about the metering systems controlling meth injection. BM3 uses the DME, but the DME doesn't control the meth, so what safety margins are you sacrificing for this.

Upgraded suspension: Last year, on vacation in England, I got to experience the Litchfield coil-over suspension system developed with AST and was very impressed at the time. Having said that, changing from Conti shit to PS4S transformed the ride comfort of the car already, making it far more compliant and quieter, so I'm not sure just how much of an improvement I'd notice for street driving with a coil-over setup.

M2 Convertible: Something left-field I know, but ever since I bought my M2, I've loved the thought of an M2 convertible, and it might be a fun project to buy an insurance write off M2 (for the drivetrain, suspension and undamaged body panels) and something like a used 228i and build an M2 convertible. I know this has been done before in Europe, but I've not seen this in the US, and I think it would look great.

What do you guys think?

Have you considered seeing a clinical psychologist?

[Yellowflash21]

Originally Posted by M Fifty

Have you considered seeing a clinical psychologist?

That's not funny, and in that case I guess we're all qualified to see the clinical psychologist.

As each of like would always have some personal pros and cons for the car that we drive daily/weekly.

@Nezil. If you like to have your hands dirty, I would recommend to go with Dinan turbo upgrade in combination with W/M injection.

Its in same price bracket as Ps2+tune, and you will have more fun and less lag along the way.

[Nezil]

So that's now two votes for WMI... and I have to admit that it's got me thinking... Initially I had rejected the idea because I thought it would not be possible to do a stealth install, and because I was worried about what happened if I ran out of meth or the system broke; would the DME protect the engine if that were the case, particularly given the recent post about cracked piston etc.

Having said that, when I was investigating octane issues last year, Dzenan suggested WMI as the solution to my problems, saying he never tunes without out it, for what it's worth. His argument was that meth gives you fuel (our HPFP is at the limit anyway), octane (shitty CA gas) and IAT reduction (a common problem in summer), so apart from complexity, it can really improve the very areas I'm suffering in.

I've been doing some investigations into what's possible, and it looks like using the screen wash bottle isn't as ridiculous as it might sound. On the M2 it's mounted under the fender between the metal and the fender liner, and so is somewhat insulated from engine heat. Screenwash is water / meth anyway, so it should be safe to use that container, if a little small.

The beauty of using the screen wash bottle is that you get an instant warning if the fluid is low, and you can then quickly fill up, change map (using BM3) to a less agressive or stock map, or adjust driving style to make sure you're safe.

I already have a charge pipe with meth bungs, so I'd need wiring, a pump, lines, jets and controller to get this working.

[Nezil]

Taking this a little further... what are my options for WMI systems / controller.

My understanding is that the controllers either work by detecting boost pressure with a sensor, or by getting information from the OBD port. I currently have my BM3 OBD Agent device permanently connected to my OBD for logging and dashboard purposes. How exactly would this work with a WMI setup?

I see talk of 'Backend Flash' and I'm not clear on what this is. I'm currently running a BM3 OTS map; is that a Backend Flash itself?

If I were to use a JB4 as a meth controller, do I really need to plug in all of the harness that it comes with; I'd rather rely on BM3 to control boost, fuelling and ignition, and only use the JB4 for meth control and maybe some of the nice boost / meth gauge details you get on dash.

There seems to be a lot of forum posts on how to physically install a WMI kit, but not much on how to get the software and control side of it set up.

[GerardzM]

If you go with an Aquamist setup, you wire it to the harness coming out of the DME. It works based on Injector Duty Cycle and not boost.

With the JB4, if I'm not mistaken, you can set it up strictly to controller the methanol spray but still run your current tune. Best of both worlds?

All I can say forsure my friend is with methanol paired up with 91 octane, timing drops are a thing of the past.

Even in stock tune form, with methanol spraying the car is far happier and just eager to go. Pulls strong all the way to redline, even in 115 degree heat here.

[Nezil]

Originally Posted by GerardzM

If you go with an Aquamist setup, you wire it to the harness coming out of the DME. It works based on Injector Duty Cycle and not boost.

With the JB4, if I'm not mistaken, you can set it up strictly to controller the methanol spray but still run your current tune. Best of both worlds?

All I can say forsure my friend is with methanol paired up with 91 octane, timing drops are a thing of the past.

Even in stock tune form, with methanol spraying the car is far happier and just eager to go. Pulls strong all the way to redline, even in 115 degree heat here.

Thanks very much for this info GerardzM, I've seen your post in this thread also about WMI: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1572359.

Are you based in Southern CA?

[Nezil]

I've been doing some research over the last few days about WMI, and I'm pretty set on that being my next mod.

I'm not sure if I'm going to get through all of this, but what I'm thinking at the moment is a timeline that looks something like this:

1. WMI on stock BM3 OTS maps with current FBO hardware (stock turbo)
2. WMI with PS2 on BM3 OTS maps
3. WMI with PS2 and custom map

All of the research I've come up with so far suggests that there are two systems that have the most information and discussion:

BMS System - Uses JB4 as the controller which obviously has a lot of control over the engine systems because it's reading and intercepting several sensors going to the DME. Having JB4 also means that you have access to some of the nice features besides tuning that are on offer such as the ability to switch ASD on and off using the BC button and the ability to view boost and meth rate on the dashboard dials.

Installation doesn't require you to cut or splice any wiring; it's completely and easily reversible. <-- I really like this aspect!

My understanding of the meth system is that it's an on-off system rather than progressive, and meth is switched in response to boost.

Fail-safe detection is a combination of measuring current sensing to the pump, combined with looking at the CAN bus to see engine symptoms of unhappiness.

Fail-safe activation is a combination of fooling the DME into thinking there is too much boost and causing it to bleed off boost rapidly, along with reducing timing, combined with dropping down to a lower state of tune, which would be equivalent to Map 0.

The biggest issues I can see with the BMS system are...

• I'm currently running BM3 OTS maps and would like to continue to do so, using WMI to improve IATs and octane for our poor fuel and high ambient in the summer. JB4 adds boost, but I don't need this because BM3 is already managing that for me. JB4 could add more potentially, but that's not what I want. By continuing to use the BM3 OTS map I effectively remove part of the BMS fail safe strategy because if meth were suddenly to fail, I'd only fall back to a BM3 map that we know is a little too aggressive without meth anyway.
• The JB4 requires the OBD port for CAN bus connectivity, but I use the OBD port for datalogging and map changing with BM3

Aquamist System - This system is universal, and not specifically designed for BMW like the BMS product. Having said that, it's been fairly widely used by BMW owners and does get good reviews.

Installation requires you to tap a few wires coming from the DME. It should be possible to build a harness like JB4 has to avoid this, but that's a lot of work. If I go the Aquamist route, I might look into that.

The meth system is progressive, using a PWM controlled valve and a strategy based on the fuel injector duty cycle. Meth is therefore added in a ratio that is linked to fuel injection rather than boost alone. This should be easier to tune for because it should be more predictable.

The fail-safe detection is based on sensing if meth flow is outside of pre-set flow rates set by testing during installation. Some argument has been made that this isn't a safe way to detect issues, but it seems to me that if that weren't the case there would be more complaints.

The fail-safe activation appears work by sending either a low voltage signal to another system (which could actually be JB4), and / or triggering a relay to do something. Apparently, the N55 EWG can be controlled, but I'm not sure how this works exactly. It's not clear to me if the result of a fail-safe is putting the car in limp-mode, or if the integral resistor is able to prevent that. Even if limp-mode were the result, it might not be the end of the world because I'd want to stop and resolve the situation quickly anyway.

Summary

It seems to me that the BMS system, with the JB4's knowledge of what's going on with the engine, has a potentially more robust way of noticing a fault, and perhaps a potentially more graceful way of acting on that fault, again because of the JB4 piggyback control.

Right now, I'm using an E20 mix (1.5G of E85 / tank of CA 91 AKI) and if I can't get E85, I switch to the ACN 91 OTS map. This seems to keep my engine happy, and I like that I have the ability to change maps quickly and easily. Once I've installed WMI, I'd like the ability to flash a more conservative map and switch the WMI system off. I'm not clear at the moment if that's going to be possible with either system.

I think if I were to go with the BMS system, I'd need to have a custom map from day 1, which took into consideration what the JB4 was going to do when meth was running. It would be a deliberately de-tuned map that worked without meth with the knowledge that boost would be added on top.

If I were to go with the Aquamist system, I'd need to find a way to switch the system off (in the case that I'm using a non-meth BM3 map) and not have it go into fail-safe mode. The install guide for the Aquamist isn't clear that this is possible.

[Nezil]

Oh, and I forgot to mention that I'm planning, at least initially, to use the fender mounted windshield washer tank. My car is my daily driver, but I live in California and very very rarely need to use real windshield washer fluid. I've also coded out the headlight washers because I keep my car clean and don't want them firing fluid over my paintwork!

I've heard of concerns about using the washer fluid reservoir, but these seem to be based on concerns of leaking onto the strengthening plate under the engine, which isn't where the liquid would go if the reservoir leaked anyway. If cold weather washer fluid is a 50/50 water methanol mix anyway... why are there concerns about using the washer reservoir?

A bigger concern for me would be running nylon pipes around the engine bay, so I may go with braided stainless lines between the pump and charge pipe.

[GerardzM]

A backend flash is essentially for people who prefer flash tunes, but want to keep all the functions and failsafes of the JB4/FSB..I do know MHD offers this, not sure about BM3.

Its normally recommended to not use the WW if you use high concentrations of methanol, a 50/50 mix is not flammable. You should be safe if you take that route.
If you do go BMS, its agreed that a CM10 nozzle is good for the stock turbo N55.....a dual CM5 with a T-Connection would be even better...you'll get better atomization and decrease the chances of bogging the motor.

The JB4 can be set to not add any boost on top.
The failsafe will trigger the low boost profile if it detects a fault, no limp mode. If there is an overboost event it kicks to Map4(stock map, but still logging parameters).

If you do go Pure Stage2, which I will be doing in the future(tried robbing me for a trade-in for the M2c lol) TB injection will not be enough. The distribution of methanol will not evenly spray to all the cylinders, and wont flow enough. Port-injection will come into play here....but honestly the cleanest install would be that XDI pump. I know for a fact MHD and BM3 offer the software needed to run it properly.

I use to live in SoCal, but work has relocated me to Nevada...same shit gas, but much higher temps during summer!

But at least there are 100octane stations everywhere here!

[Nezil]

Thanks for the response GerardzM.

I'm currently leaning more towards the Aquamist system, but I'm certainly not fully decided yet. I've sent an email to them asking for more information on how the fail safe works, and also started taking a look at how I might do the install without tapping wires.

I had hoped to use braided AN lines and fittings for safety, and that's only possible with Devil's Own and Snow Performance fittings. The Aquamist nozzles are also all M8 x 1.25 rather than 1/8 NPT so that will also require adapters for my FTP charge pipe bungs I think.

I'm still confused about BEF and JB4... If I were to simply install a JB4 without removing my BM3 OTS flash, the JB4 would try to boost above the BM3 flash which could presumably be dangerous. The only solution then would be to either custom tune, or to get a BM3 flash specifically designed to be used in concert with the JB4, which as you say, may not even be available. This fact alone puts me off going the JB4 route, though I really like the dash features that the JB4 gives.

The main reason I'm leaning towards the Aquamist system is mostly because of its controlled progressive delivery, which should be more predictable to tune with down the road. Controlling delivery at the valve, which is closer to the nozzles, seems far more accurate than pulsing the motor which could be 10' of line away and needs to build up pressure in the lines as well!

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Nezil

Thanks for the response GerardzM.

I'm currently leaning more towards the Aquamist system, but I'm certainly not fully decided yet. I've sent an email to them asking for more information on how the fail safe works, and also started taking a look at how I might do the install without tapping wires.

I had hoped to use braided AN lines and fittings for safety, and that's only possible with Devil's Own and Snow Performance fittings. The Aquamist nozzles are also all M8 x 1.25 rather than 1/8 NPT so that will also require adapters for my FTP charge pipe bungs I think.

I'm still confused about BEF and JB4... If I were to simply install a JB4 without removing my BM3 OTS flash, the JB4 would try to boost above the BM3 flash which could presumably be dangerous. The only solution then would be to either custom tune, or to get a BM3 flash specifically designed to be used in concert with the JB4, which as you say, may not even be available. This fact alone puts me off going the JB4 route, though I really like the dash features that the JB4 gives.

The main reason I'm leaning towards the Aquamist system is mostly because of its controlled progressive delivery, which should be more predictable to tune with down the road. Controlling delivery at the valve, which is closer to the nozzles, seems far more accurate than pulsing the motor which could be 10' of line away and needs to build up pressure in the lines as well!

I feel like I've read a number of people have had bm3 tune and then jb4 only as a controller for meth.

[Nezil]

Originally Posted by akkando

I feel like I've read a number of people have had bm3 tune and then jb4 only as a controller for meth.

Yeah, I feel like that too. Still trying to find out details. I've emailed Aquamist and dzenno / proTUNING Freaks for advice. Haven't emailed BMS yet because I'm leaning towards Aquamist currently, but will do at some point.

What are you running now akkando? Did you go BM3 in the end or are you still stock?

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Nezil

Yeah, I feel like that too. Still trying to find out details. I've emailed Aquamist and dzenno / proTUNING Freaks for advice. Haven't emailed BMS yet because I'm leaning towards Aquamist currently, but will do at some point.

What are you running now akkando? Did you go BM3 in the end or are you still stock?

I have the stage 1 ACN 91 octane tune from bm3 on the car. Someone else got a beta version and I asked for that. Halim gave that to me with the request to take some logs. I did and he put the tune out there as an OTS tune for everyone.

He mentioned based on logs my best upgrade would be intercooler.

At this point I'm not really sure how the ACN tune compares to stock. The regular bm3 stage 1 tune version 5.7 had power delivery that wasn't very linear. It would give power, kind of bog down for a moment, then power would come back. I suspected it was just way too aggressive for ACN gas which is why I requested the ACN tune. Now the power is more linear again, but not sure how it compares to stock. I think at the very least it feels a bit more alive and responsive than stock still.

I have a charge pipe in my trunk just in case. I guess I would consider intercooler but I don't want spend more money if I end up upgrading to m2c.... who knows. Maybe I'm get 763m wheels and powder coat because I would use those on either car.