Can a delaer legally do this?

Bimmer28312 · 04-24-2019, 07:36 PM

So after all this time looks like I'll be back into an M2. Long story short I've recently gotten an allocation with build starting in May. Lucky enough I found one at MSRP w/$1k for returning customer at the same dealer I purchased my 17 M2. But... This time my deposit to lock my allocation in says non-refundable?? Legally if for whatever reason I completely change my mind and don't see this happening can a dealer keep my money?? Haven't signed anything as of yet because the document states that at the bottom and it just bothered me.
What do you think guys anyone have this become an issue for them? Coming from California by the way.

arciga18 · 04-24-2019, 09:06 PM

i have seen many posts from California members stating that deposits are 100% refundable in Cali.

Heck, I think you can sign finance paperwork and then not drive off the lot and still get a refund in Cali.

How about this. SIGN the paperwork but put a giant slash/ cross out the "non" refundable. Next to it write down "refundable". take a picture.

Send it to the dealer. See what their response is....

I think you are in Cali..

Bimmer28312 · 04-24-2019, 09:27 PM

Yeah I am in California. Bothered me because I was gonna place a larger down payment. Now I'm doing the min because of this until the day I take delivery. They said because I ordered the sunset orange with matching interior stitching they had to enforce this. This is the same dealer I order my 17 grey M2 and didn't have to deal with this crap. Just not good business in my opinion.

Thescout13 · 04-24-2019, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bimmer28312

Yeah I am in California. Bothered me because I was gonna place a larger down payment. Now I'm doing the min because of this until the day I take delivery. They said because I ordered the sunset orange with matching interior stitching they had to enforce this. This is the same dealer I order my 17 grey M2 and didn't have to deal with this crap. Just not good business in my opinion.

They can write whatever they want on that form, legally, in California, they MUST refund your deposit. Full stop.

TemjinX2 · 04-24-2019, 11:36 PM

worst case you can issue a charge back on your credit card since you didn't buy the car and have the dealership fight your cc company.

F87source · 04-25-2019, 12:05 AM

If you have a factory order and are choosing your own spec then that's what dealers normally do to protect themselves from having a car that is "unsellable" if the spec is not popular or common. Normally when I do a factory order I add in the deposit is refundable until production start clause, so I can back out at anytime up until the production begins.

Bimmer28312 · 04-25-2019, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thescout13

They can write whatever they want on that form, legally, in California, they MUST refund your deposit. Full stop.

Yeah that's exactly what I thought and read on this forum going through my initial M2 I purchased a few years ago. This time around though the document says non refundable. Good to know legally I'm ok specially when I was gonna place a larger initial down payment.

Thescout13 · 04-25-2019, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bimmer28312

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thescout13

They can write whatever they want on that form, legally, in California, they MUST refund your deposit. Full stop.

Yeah that's exactly what I thought and read on this forum going through my initial M2 I purchased a few years ago. This time around though the document says non refundable. Good to know legally I'm ok specially when I was gonna place a larger initial down payment.

Just make it with a credit card. If you charge back you will win in the event they don't honor their obligation under the law.

Bimmer28312 · 04-25-2019, 12:25 PM

Thanks guys just seems odd they would do something like this when they have no legal right to.

arciga18 · 04-25-2019, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bimmer28312

Yeah I am in California. Bothered me because I was gonna place a larger down payment. Now I'm doing the min because of this until the day I take delivery. They said because I ordered the sunset orange with matching interior stitching they had to enforce this. This is the same dealer I order my 17 grey M2 and didn't have to deal with this crap. Just not good business in my opinion.

The color argument is trash.

It's a standard bmw color.

I could see this with Barbie pink individual paint or something extreme like that.

termigni · 04-25-2019, 01:47 PM

it becomes legal once you sign off on it. But you can dispute them to revise it saying "refundable deposit". it's up to them to revise it or not.

Thescout13 · 04-25-2019, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by termigni

it becomes legal once you sign off on it. But you can dispute them to revise it saying "refundable deposit". it's up to them to revise it or not.

Not true for California. It is refundable no matter what he signed. It's the law in CA that cannot he contracted around.

Bimmer28312 · 04-25-2019, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thescout13

Not true for California. It is refundable no matter what he signed. It's the law in CA that cannot he contracted around.

Even more reason why it initially bothered me. Perhaps they don't know but if they did and more likely they do still trying to Have this in writing kind of pisses me off.

nioh_lbbm2 · 04-25-2019, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by termigni

it becomes legal once you sign off on it. But you can dispute them to revise it saying "refundable deposit". it's up to them to revise it or not.

Just because it is signed does not make it legal or enforceable.

Thescout13 · 04-25-2019, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bimmer28312

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thescout13

Not true for California. It is refundable no matter what he signed. It's the law in CA that cannot he contracted around.

Even more reason why it initially bothered me. Perhaps they don't know but if they did and more likely they do still trying to Have this in writing kind of pisses me off.

Yeah it to sucker idiots who don't know the law. Luckily you do. Dealers can be super shady.

Economatic · 04-25-2019, 03:07 PM

Another option if you do not get the car and they won't give you the refund is to get BMW of North America involved. I had to go that route with a Nissan dealer a few years back. I spent months fighting the dealer to get a deposit back for an order they repeatedly messed up. One phone call to Nissan USA and my refund check arrived in a couple days.

arciga18 · 04-25-2019, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bimmer28312

Yeah I am in California. Bothered me because I was gonna place a larger down payment. Now I'm doing the min because of this until the day I take delivery. They said because I ordered the sunset orange with matching interior stitching they had to enforce this. This is the same dealer I order my 17 grey M2 and didn't have to deal with this crap. Just not good business in my opinion.

The color argument is trash.

It's a standard bmw color.

I could see this with Barbie pink individual paint or something extreme like that.

termigni · 04-25-2019, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thescout13

Quote:

Originally Posted by termigni

it becomes legal once you sign off on it. But you can dispute them to revise it saying "refundable deposit". it's up to them to revise it or not.

Not true for California. It is refundable no matter what he signed. It's the law in CA that cannot he contracted around.

That's why I'm not a lawyer lol

Aloha Joe · 04-25-2019, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bimmer28312

So after all this time looks like I'll be back into an M2. Long story short I've recently gotten an allocation with build starting in May. Lucky enough I found one at MSRP w/$1k for returning customer at the same dealer I purchased my 17 M2. But... This time my deposit to lock my allocation in says non-refundable?? Legally if for whatever reason I completely change my mind and don't see this happening can a dealer keep my money?? Haven't signed anything as of yet because the document states that at the bottom and it just bothered me.
What do you think guys anyone have this become an issue for them? Coming from California by the way.

28312, I'd be careful of accepting legal advice on a car forum. Your safest bet is to get legal advice from an attorney in California versed in this area. Here's an article from Cosumer Reports which may be of help.

https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...osit/index.htm

Thescout13 · 04-25-2019, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aloha Joe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bimmer28312

So after all this time looks like I'll be back into an M2. Long story short I've recently gotten an allocation with build starting in May. Lucky enough I found one at MSRP w/$1k for returning customer at the same dealer I purchased my 17 M2. But... This time my deposit to lock my allocation in says non-refundable?? Legally if for whatever reason I completely change my mind and don't see this happening can a dealer keep my money?? Haven't signed anything as of yet because the document states that at the bottom and it just bothered me.
What do you think guys anyone have this become an issue for them? Coming from California by the way.

28312, I'd be careful of accepting legal advice on a car forum. Your safest bet is to get legal advice from an attorney in California versed in this area. Here's an article from Cosumer Reports which may be of help.

https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...osit/index.htm

I am a California barred attorney who has actually dealt with this exact issue with a California dealer.

To put this to bed:

Quote:

It is unlawful for any dealer licensed under this article to do any of the following when brokering a retail sale:....

(c) Fail to refund any purchase money, including purchase deposits, upon demand by a consumer at any time prior to the consumer's signing of a vehicle purchase agreement with a selling dealer and taking delivery of the vehicle described in the brokering agreement.

Source: California Code, Vehicle Code - VEH § 11736 https://codes.findlaw.com/ca/vehicle...ect-11736.html

Aloha Joe · 04-25-2019, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thescout13

I am a California barred attorney who has actually dealt with this exact issue with a California dealer. Want me to forward you by bar number for validation?

No necessary as it's not my $1k on the hook. I'll just leave it up to the OP to decide.

Thescout13 · 04-25-2019, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aloha Joe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thescout13

I am a California barred attorney who has actually dealt with this exact issue with a California dealer. Want me to forward you by bar number for validation?

No necessary as it's not my $1k on the hook. I'll just leave it up to the OP to decide.

See the source I posted above. Law is abundantly clear. No need for a lawyer.

04-24-2019, 07:36 PM	#1
Bimmer28312 Major 342 Rep 1,122 Posts Drives: BMW N55 335xi Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: United States iTrader: (0)	Can a delaer legally do this? So after all this time looks like I'll be back into an M2. Long story short I've recently gotten an allocation with build starting in May. Lucky enough I found one at MSRP w/$1k for returning customer at the same dealer I purchased my 17 M2. But... This time my deposit to lock my allocation in says non-refundable?? Legally if for whatever reason I completely change my mind and don't see this happening can a dealer keep my money?? Haven't signed anything as of yet because the document states that at the bottom and it just bothered me. What do you think guys anyone have this become an issue for them? Coming from California by the way. Attached Images
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04-24-2019, 09:06 PM	#2
arciga18 Brigadier General 1729 Rep 3,654 Posts Drives: LeMans/ Chestnut E90, RWD Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Chicago iTrader: (3)	i have seen many posts from California members stating that deposits are 100% refundable in Cali. Heck, I think you can sign finance paperwork and then not drive off the lot and still get a refund in Cali. How about this. SIGN the paperwork but put a giant slash/ cross out the "non" refundable. Next to it write down "refundable". take a picture. Send it to the dealer. See what their response is.... I think you are in Cali..
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04-24-2019, 09:27 PM	#3
Bimmer28312 Major 342 Rep 1,122 Posts Drives: BMW N55 335xi Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: United States iTrader: (0)	Yeah I am in California. Bothered me because I was gonna place a larger down payment. Now I'm doing the min because of this until the day I take delivery. They said because I ordered the sunset orange with matching interior stitching they had to enforce this. This is the same dealer I order my 17 grey M2 and didn't have to deal with this crap. Just not good business in my opinion.
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04-24-2019, 11:36 PM	#5
TemjinX2 Major 521 Rep 1,485 Posts Drives: 2008 335xi e92 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Socal OC iTrader: (0)	worst case you can issue a charge back on your credit card since you didn't buy the car and have the dealership fight your cc company.
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04-25-2019, 12:05 AM	#6
F87source Major General 7246 Rep 7,422 Posts Drives: Bmw M2 Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: . iTrader: (1)	If you have a factory order and are choosing your own spec then that's what dealers normally do to protect themselves from having a car that is "unsellable" if the spec is not popular or common. Normally when I do a factory order I add in the deposit is refundable until production start clause, so I can back out at anytime up until the production begins. __________________ Click on the link below to see a compiled list of every review I have ever written: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post30368242
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04-25-2019, 12:25 PM	#9
Bimmer28312 Major 342 Rep 1,122 Posts Drives: BMW N55 335xi Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: United States iTrader: (0)	Thanks guys just seems odd they would do something like this when they have no legal right to.
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04-25-2019, 01:47 PM	#11
termigni Lieutenant Colonel 1081 Rep 1,761 Posts Drives: S2000, MacanS, M4CS Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: NJ iTrader: (0) Garage List 2018 BMW M2 [0.00]	it becomes legal once you sign off on it. But you can dispute them to revise it saying "refundable deposit". it's up to them to revise it or not. __________________ 2020 ///M4 CS, Alpine White, DCT 2018 ///M2 LCI, Metallic Orange, 6MT, Exec Pkg, Apple.. Sold Instagram: Tommys911
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04-25-2019, 03:07 PM	#16
Economatic Second Lieutenant 174 Rep 218 Posts Drives: 2020 M2 Comp Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Bend, OR iTrader: (0)	Another option if you do not get the car and they won't give you the refund is to get BMW of North America involved. I had to go that route with a Nissan dealer a few years back. I spent months fighting the dealer to get a deposit back for an order they repeatedly messed up. One phone call to Nissan USA and my refund check arrived in a couple days.
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