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      06-29-2017, 12:43 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by IB M View Post
Good for BMW. Tesla has a substantial lead in brand, technology and design when it comes to electrics. Porsche and BMW need to catch-up fast. Doubt GM or Ford can as electric does not appeal to their customer base.
Ummmm...the Chevrolet Bolt is Car of the Year; beat the Tesla Model 3 to the market, and is by all accounts a phenomenal vehicle...for $35,000. I can't see a BMW 3 series playing either at this technical level OR this price point.
And who the hell drives a bolt? Awards don't mean anything.
It's a commuting appliance.

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      06-29-2017, 12:48 AM   #24
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^ That picture above is an X-Car not a 3er.
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      06-29-2017, 01:05 AM   #25
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BMW has the technology to lead the market in performance hybrids. Why jump to all electric?
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      06-29-2017, 01:36 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by sdshah View Post
And who the hell drives a bolt? Awards don't mean anything.
I drive a 2017 Chevy Bolt EV and I also have a 900hp F10 M5. I also lease a 428i Gran Coupe at the moment. I was also a BMW salesman for a while, and I have driven every single BMW currently offered with the exception of the brand new just released X3.

When I sit here and tell you that the 2017 Chevy Bolt EV is hands down one of the best cars I have ever driven, I know what I am talking about. Just last week I was able to squeeze out over 300 miles of range on a single charge in the Bolt EV due to driving it very efficiently. This thread isn't about the Bolt EV though, it's about a new 3-Series that will be full electric. I personally think that this is fantastic news. After my Chevy Bolt EV experience, I can say that a future BMW 3-Series that has around 250 miles of all electric range will be a game changer for BMW because it will have the luxury of a BMW combined with the practicality and utility of the 3-Series, and excellent range for a current day electric car.

Many Americans tout range as the number one issue of why they wouldn't buy a Full Electric Vehicle, and I agree that for most Americans who can only afford 1 vehicle, having one vehicle with a limited range of about 250 miles won't work. But for people who own multiple vehicles, it becomes a viable option. Also, as much as we Americans love to drive, many Americans rarely ever drive more than 150 miles in a single day. Most Americans just use a car to commute to work or run errands around town or for recreational activities in their immediate city, for these purposes, an all electric car with 250 miles of range will work. I have already proved that, I have gone weeks without driving either of my other BMW's, and only driving my electric Bolt EV.

As far as charging stations go, I find it silly for people who don't yet own an electric car to be commenting on how few stations there are. In reality there is already a huge public charging station network. Already between Chargepoint, Blink, EVGo and Tesla, there are a ton of public stations in America, and it will be growing substantially even within the next 3 years. Volkswagen has plans on investing billions into building their own public charging networks. Chargepoint is constantly expanding as well. Soon we will also see a far greater number of Level III charging stations out there that can charge a car with 90 miles in only 30 minutes and the technology is only getting better. Tesla already has their Supercharger network, which is essentially a Level IV charger, that can charge a car up with over 200 miles in 30 minutes. Everyone is getting into this game, Volvo, Mercedes, Volkswagen, Audi, etc... Public charging stations aside, most, if not all electric car owners also install a charging station at home. I did, and its even 50% cheaper to charge my car at home than it is at a public charging station. There are even different kinds of Level II charging stations you can install at home. The one I have gives me 32 miles of range per hour of charging, where the average for a Level II charger is 25 miles per hour.

Now I am not saying that electric cars will be for everyone, even for when we start getting electric cars with over 400 miles of range. South Dakota is a perfect example of where electric cars don't make much sense, since everything is spread out so much there. In South Dakota, a Chevy Cruze Diesel with a Manual Transmission and its 52mpg and almost 800 miles of range on a single tank makes much more sense in a place like that.

What I am saying is that full electric cars are already viable today and it all started with the Chevy Bolt EV, being that it's pretty affordable, especially with all of the tax incentives we get. I was able to get mine with $10,000 off in tax rebates. Cars, like the BMW i3, Nissan Leaf, and Fiat 500e, are not viable electric cars for the masses, but they were the first baby step that needed to be taken. A BMW 3-Series with a 250 mile range is going to be awesome. I would even consider to get one myself, but I like all of the space and utility that the Chevy Bolt EV offers over a sedan body style. Tesla is in a different class, but they are changing that with their new upcoming Model 3. I personally don't like the minimalism of Tesla cars, so I don't think I would ever get one, but the tech on those things is almost out of this world.

As for this new Electric 3-Series, I can see BMW slotting it in between the future 330i and the new M340i in terms of power and torque. I'll guess that the 335e (or whatever they might call it) will produce around 280hp and have like 350lbs/ft of torque or more. I will tell you that even the Bolt EV is absolutely a blast to drive around town with its 200hp and 266lbs/ft of torque. I am constantly overtaking other cars with it and launching from red lights. Even with all of the aggressive driving I do with it (since I am an ///M driver first and foremost), I still manage to maximize efficiency on a daily basis, due to the Bolt EV's manual control of its Energy Recovery System, which is something the BMW i3 doesn't even have. I can definitely imagine what an Electric 3-Series will drive like with so much instant torque. It's going to be GOOD I'm telling you.

Electric cars are wonderful, I just don't want to see the true performance cars go full electric one day, as a true sports car needs an exhaust note, I feel. For every day driving Bolt EV provides a lot of fun and economy and so will a future electric 3-Series. And of course for those days I don't feel like saving the environment, I can always take my 900hp M5 out for a spin.

Also below is a picture of my Chevy Bolt EV's range when I got in it to go to work the other morning. It calculates range based off of the previous day of driving efficiency. Like I said, last week I got over 300 miles of driving in on one battery charge, and I still had like over 50 miles of range on it before I finally plugged it in again.
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      06-29-2017, 01:48 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudiA4 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IB M View Post
Good for BMW. Tesla has a substantial lead in brand, technology and design when it comes to electrics. Porsche and BMW need to catch-up fast. Doubt GM or Ford can as electric does not appeal to their customer base.
Ummmm...the Chevrolet Bolt is Car of the Year; beat the Tesla Model 3 to the market, and is by all accounts a phenomenal vehicle...for $35,000. I can't see a BMW 3 series playing either at this technical level OR this price point.
The Chevrolet bolt is also butt ugly, tiny, front wheel drive, and not remotely interesting. It's a Nissan Leaf that has longer range. Boring. Worse, it's a $35,000 Honda Fit. Who wants that?

Tesla has been so successful because they are making desirable cars that are competitive in their price range. If you're looking to spend $70-100k on a car, you could either buy a 5-series/7-series or you could buy a Tesla Model S. Both cars are sporty and luxurious. One is electric the other is gas. If you're a progressive or environmentally-minded person, the Tesla is the obvious choice.

On the other hand, if you're going to spend $35k on a car, you could buy a 3-series or a chevy bolt. I'm a fan of electric cars, but I'd take the 3-series every time. It's in an entirely different league of performance and luxury (not to mention style). If the Tesla Model 3 is remotely competitive with the BMW 3er in terms of sportiness, quality, and luxury then that would be the obvious choice (we already know the Model 3 is stylish).

I predict the Model 3 is big competition for the BMW 3er, Audi A4, etc. Apparently BMW thinks so too...
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      06-29-2017, 01:55 AM   #28
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I love BMW and all, but without a global fast charging infrastructure they will be far, far behind Tesla.
Completely agree.

Although, if BMW made a 3/4-series EV, I'd be tempted to get one to replace the 4GC for around-town driving.
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      06-29-2017, 04:00 AM   #29
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      06-29-2017, 04:29 AM   #30
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This is great news!

I'm hoping to pull the trigger on a X5 40e next week so in 3 years maybe we'll see a full electric X5 with 300 miles of range. Would keep me away from buying Tesla most likely
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      06-29-2017, 04:55 AM   #31
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Finally. Hope it is legit. Let the electric car wars begin. I dont know how other companies will compete with tesla in usa, without the supercharging network
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      06-29-2017, 05:13 AM   #32
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Good for BMW. Tesla has a substantial lead in brand, technology and design when it comes to electrics.
But BMW has a substantial lead on everything else that makes up a car.
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      06-29-2017, 05:34 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ron_jeremy View Post
One word: CCS.
I didn't think we would see a 3 series EV soon, so i was thinking of buying the 400km LCI i3 this fall...
There will be no battery upgrade for the LCI i3. Not until end of 2018 when the new 120Ah Samsung SDI batteries are ready (which also the 3-series must wait for)
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      06-29-2017, 05:42 AM   #34
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There will be no battery upgrade for the LCI i3. Not until end of 2018 when the new 120Ah Samsung SDI batteries are ready (which also the 3-series must wait for)
That's not what i've heard.
Source?
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      06-29-2017, 06:15 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudiA4 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IB M View Post
Good for BMW. Tesla has a substantial lead in brand, technology and design when it comes to electrics. Porsche and BMW need to catch-up fast. Doubt GM or Ford can as electric does not appeal to their customer base.
Ummmm...the Chevrolet Bolt is Car of the Year; beat the Tesla Model 3 to the market, and is by all accounts a phenomenal vehicle...for $35,000. I can't see a BMW 3 series playing either at this technical level OR this price point.
.....and the Chevy Bolt is F.... ugly.
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      06-29-2017, 06:30 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by IB M View Post
Good for BMW. Tesla has a substantial lead in brand, technology and design when it comes to electrics. Porsche and BMW need to catch-up fast. Doubt GM or Ford can as electric does not appeal to their customer base.
GM is not so far behind. The Chevy Bolt seems to be a winner. Tesla should be very concerned.
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      06-29-2017, 06:34 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
I drive a 2017 Chevy Bolt EV...
Dude, that's an awesome post. I don't usually post stuff here but your post was informative and honest. I'm planning on getting an electric vehicle someday (probably my next car) but I wanted to see the Tesla Model 3 launch first, as well as some other options from other brands before I finally switched. The way you rationalize American driving is bang on. I have my daily driver to go to work (which someday will be electric) and I have my family car for road trips if I need more range (which is a highlander Hybrid, btw and absolutely rocks). I plan on getting the electric car and I had a 220v outlet installed in my garage specifically for that purpose, to get a high performance charger in there. I'm actually not surprised that BMW is planning on launching an all electric 3 series at all given where we are headed in this world. There is a higher and higher demand for a lower carbon footprint these days especially with the younger generation. My plan is to get solar panels from SolarCity, a Tesla generator in my house and have an electric car and all this by 2020 if possible...
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      06-29-2017, 07:06 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jbrock22 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IB M View Post
Good for BMW. Tesla has a substantial lead in brand, technology and design when it comes to electrics. Porsche and BMW need to catch-up fast. Doubt GM or Ford can as electric does not appeal to their customer base.
GM is not so far behind. The Chevy Bolt seems to be a winner. Tesla should be very concerned.
Yes and the Volt was also a very good hybrid but they didn't sell that well compared to the Prius. My point is people that buy Chevy don't buy electric cars and Chevy will be unable to woo Tesla buyers in mass based on style, brand and design.
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      06-29-2017, 07:07 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by lilmacarony View Post
Perhaps BMW will show the Concept 3 Series early? I mean we are in the last MY of the current F30.... We only have 9-10 months until you can no longer order an F30
And a pretty great way to get brand exposure with both green driving electric stuff as well as testing out the new design ?
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      06-29-2017, 07:13 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdshah View Post
And who the hell drives a bolt? Awards don't mean anything.
I drive a 2017 Chevy Bolt EV and I also have a 900hp F10 M5. I also lease a 428i Gran Coupe at the moment. I was also a BMW salesman for a while, and I have driven every single BMW currently offered with the exception of the brand new just released X3.

When I sit here and tell you that the 2017 Chevy Bolt EV is hands down one of the best cars I have ever driven, I know what I am talking about. Just last week I was able to squeeze out over 300 miles of range on a single charge in the Bolt EV due to driving it very efficiently. This thread isn't about the Bolt EV though, it's about a new 3-Series that will be full electric. I personally think that this is fantastic news. After my Chevy Bolt EV experience, I can say that a future BMW 3-Series that has around 250 miles of all electric range will be a game changer for BMW because it will have the luxury of a BMW combined with the practicality and utility of the 3-Series, and excellent range for a current day electric car.

Many Americans tout range as the number one issue of why they wouldn't buy a Full Electric Vehicle, and I agree that for most Americans who can only afford 1 vehicle, having one vehicle with a limited range of about 250 miles won't work. But for people who own multiple vehicles, it becomes a viable option. Also, as much as we Americans love to drive, many Americans rarely ever drive more than 150 miles in a single day. Most Americans just use a car to commute to work or run errands around town or for recreational activities in their immediate city, for these purposes, an all electric car with 250 miles of range will work. I have already proved that, I have gone weeks without driving either of my other BMW's, and only driving my electric Bolt EV.

As far as charging stations go, I find it silly for people who don't yet own an electric car to be commenting on how few stations there are. In reality there is already a huge public charging station network. Already between Chargepoint, Blink, EVGo and Tesla, there are a ton of public stations in America, and it will be growing substantially even within the next 3 years. Volkswagen has plans on investing billions into building their own public charging networks. Chargepoint is constantly expanding as well. Soon we will also see a far greater number of Level III charging stations out there that can charge a car with 90 miles in only 30 minutes and the technology is only getting better. Tesla already has their Supercharger network, which is essentially a Level IV charger, that can charge a car up with over 200 miles in 30 minutes. Everyone is getting into this game, Volvo, Mercedes, Volkswagen, Audi, etc... Public charging stations aside, most, if not all electric car owners also install a charging station at home. I did, and its even 50% cheaper to charge my car at home than it is at a public charging station. There are even different kinds of Level II charging stations you can install at home. The one I have gives me 32 miles of range per hour of charging, where the average for a Level II charger is 25 miles per hour.

Now I am not saying that electric cars will be for everyone, even for when we start getting electric cars with over 400 miles of range. South Dakota is a perfect example of where electric cars don't make much sense, since everything is spread out so much there. In South Dakota, a Chevy Cruze Diesel with a Manual Transmission and its 52mpg and almost 800 miles of range on a single tank makes much more sense in a place like that.

What I am saying is that full electric cars are already viable today and it all started with the Chevy Bolt EV, being that it's pretty affordable, especially with all of the tax incentives we get. I was able to get mine with $10,000 off in tax rebates. Cars, like the BMW i3, Nissan Leaf, and Fiat 500e, are not viable electric cars for the masses, but they were the first baby step that needed to be taken. A BMW 3-Series with a 250 mile range is going to be awesome. I would even consider to get one myself, but I like all of the space and utility that the Chevy Bolt EV offers over a sedan body style. Tesla is in a different class, but they are changing that with their new upcoming Model 3. I personally don't like the minimalism of Tesla cars, so I don't think I would ever get one, but the tech on those things is almost out of this world.

As for this new Electric 3-Series, I can see BMW slotting it in between the future 330i and the new M340i in terms of power and torque. I'll guess that the 335e (or whatever they might call it) will produce around 280hp and have like 350lbs/ft of torque or more. I will tell you that even the Bolt EV is absolutely a blast to drive around town with its 200hp and 266lbs/ft of torque. I am constantly overtaking other cars with it and launching from red lights. Even with all of the aggressive driving I do with it (since I am an ///M driver first and foremost), I still manage to maximize efficiency on a daily basis, due to the Bolt EV's manual control of its Energy Recovery System, which is something the BMW i3 doesn't even have. I can definitely imagine what an Electric 3-Series will drive like with so much instant torque. It's going to be GOOD I'm telling you.

Electric cars are wonderful, I just don't want to see the true performance cars go full electric one day, as a true sports car needs an exhaust note, I feel. For every day driving Bolt EV provides a lot of fun and economy and so will a future electric 3-Series. And of course for those days I don't feel like saving the environment, I can always take my 900hp M5 out for a spin.

Also below is a picture of my Chevy Bolt EV's range when I got in it to go to work the other morning. It calculates range based off of the previous day of driving efficiency. Like I said, last week I got over 300 miles of driving in on one battery charge, and I still had like over 50 miles of range on it before I finally plugged it in again.
Couple of my colleagues drive the Bolt and love it to pieces. They also drive BMWs, Porsches, MB, etc., and still sing the Bolt's praises. Sounds like a fantastic car for what it is.

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      06-29-2017, 07:14 AM   #41
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That's not what i've heard.
Source?
I hope you are right and I'm wrong, but I understand that Samsung is not quite geared up for the 120Ah yet.
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      06-29-2017, 07:21 AM   #42
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The technology for 100% electric cars still isn't where it should be - batteries need to be better, and charging needs to improve 1000%. Can't take a vehicle with a 250-mile range on a trip over 150 miles without serious planning for where to recharge it. The battery manufacturing involves really toxic substances, and the increased draw on the power grid once they become "popular" will have more than just "brownout" consequences. We still generate most of our electric power via fossil fuels, so what doesn't get burned in a car will be used to produce electricity. And a whole new charging infrastructure will need to be created - one that can add a substantial charge to an EV's battery in 15 minutes or less.

I think the day of the EV is coming, but for anything other than around-town and routine commuting, it's just not ready yet. I don't want to have to own two different vehicles if I want to take a trip to the western NC mountains or the Outer Banks - or further. And the price - not everyone can afford an EV, even with the tax rebates, unless it's something at the bottom end of the EV spectrum. Then there's the charger for your home (assuming you don't live in an apartment or condo without any charging infrastructure), which is not cheap and not cheap to install.

For those of us who don't commute and don't live in an urban area with EV charging capabiltiies and aren't pulling down $100K per year or more to afford such a vehicle (talking total cost of ownership), the whole EV thing is still more of a fad than a practical mode of transportation.
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      06-29-2017, 07:26 AM   #43
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      06-29-2017, 07:52 AM   #44
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This is great news.. I do not care for the Tesla brand's styling. I love my 3-series, but an all electric for daily commutes would be fantastic.

Save the M3 for the weekends and when shenanigans are necessary!
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