[Daleb]

Originally Posted by Poochie

No.. Correct..

Right before the M2 was released, there were a couple of discussions on the discrepancies of the motor (open or close block) and the turbo.

It was established that the M2 had the turbo from the N55 335i (not the 235i) and the blowoff valve from the N20. At the time, RealOEM verified this factual data. Since then, they removed this cross-reference to the turbo with the 335i

What's the point anyway? It's the same dimension; shell and wheel, as all the standard N55s turbos, so it makes no difference in potential power output or efficiency.

What logs of 'better flow' are you referring to? The M2 might be pushing more boost but that only because it's tune that way, not because of any mechanical enhancement of the turbo.

Different turbofold, confirmed by the likes of Pure turbos who specialise and deal with these turbos day in and day out.

Regular ewg turbo cannot hold or run 17+ psi to redline like the M2 turbo can on pump fuel. The m2 turbo is more efficient, plenty of logs out there showing this.
It’s not a huge difference but it’s there.

There is a reason why we have regular ewg maps and m2 specific maps from the likes of bm3 and mhd. Hybrid turbo vendors wouldn’t differentiate between a regular n55 ewg turbo and a m2 ewg turbo for core exchange.

[Anthony1s]

Originally Posted by Poochie

Cool, I didn't know the M2 has a 6 pounds lighter flywheel that the standard N55, it was never mentioned.

That helps with faster reviving, however a heavy flywheel is better for inertia (better street driving).

For the record, it was established when the M2 came out that it doesn't have a unique turbo; it was the same unit from the F30 335i.

https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=21257468



Did you manually make the comparisons or you searched an easier way?

I manually went through each and compared.

Originally Posted by Poochie

No.. Correct..

Right before the M2 was released, there were a couple of discussions on the discrepancies of the motor (open or close block) and the turbo.

It was established that the M2 had the turbo from the N55 335i (not the 235i) and the blowoff valve from the N20. At the time, RealOEM verified this factual data. Since then, they removed this cross-reference to the turbo with the 335i

What's the point anyway? It's the same dimension; shell and wheel, as all the standard N55s turbos, so it makes no difference in potential power output or efficiency.

What logs of 'better flow' are you referring to? The M2 might be pushing more boost but that only because it's tune that way, not because of any mechanical enhancement of the turbo.

Umm, I don't know. RealOEM says 11658053153 is only used in the M2. And says that the 335i and 235i both use the same turbo, 11657643115. That's all the info I have to go by. Not sure why RealOEM would say the M2's is different if it's not.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Daleb

Different turbofold, confirmed by the likes of Pure turbos who specialise and deal with these turbos day in and day out.

Regular ewg turbo cannot hold or run 17+ psi to redline like the M2 turbo can on pump fuel. The m2 turbo is more efficient, plenty of logs out there showing this.
It's not a huge difference but it's there.

There is a reason why we have regular ewg maps and m2 specific maps from the likes of bm3 and mhd. Hybrid turbo vendors wouldn't differentiate between a regular n55 ewg turbo and a m2 ewg turbo for core exchange.

I'm not sure about the manifold or EWG, so I can't counter that.

Just for my own curiosity, you have anything you could link with more information on these enhancements because this is all news to me and I've been through the official technical training manual from front to back.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Anthony1s

I manually went through each and compared.

Umm, I don't know. RealOEM says 11658053153 is only used in the M2. And says that the 335i and 235i both use the same turbo, 11657643115. That's all the info I have to go by. Not sure why RealOEM would say the M2's is different if it's not.

Couple of things; the turbos for the N55s have had several revisions and has been alternated throughout the BMW range of N55 6 cylinder vehicles with no particular rhyme or reason.

Just because the same turbo is used the in M2 today, doesn't mean it wasn't once housed to the 335. This has been debated ad nauseam and confirmed before, as in the thread I linked before.

For example, the part number you linked for the 235i turbo is also used in the X4 35i, which has the identical motor to the M2 (S55 pistons). Two different power outputs, same turbo.

Also, all the N55 turbos are priced the same; if there was some sort of enhancement between each snail, wouldn't one assume the price would vary to reflect this difference. Not exact science but a little food for thought.



.

[ZeroEmissionZ]

Originally Posted by Taskmaster

That’s likely a result of a better turbo exhaust manifold and more aggressive tune that targets more peak power through boost and timing, near redline.


OP, you can swap the block over (use an M235i or X40i) and swap all the sensors, oil pan and pick up, and turbo and turbo manifold.

I have access to a M135i , unfortunately not 235i or x40i. will it do ?

[ZeroEmissionZ]

Originally Posted by Taskmaster

^^^

???

[Daleb]

Originally Posted by Poochie

I'm not sure about the manifold or EWG, so I can't counter that.

Just for my own curiosity, you have anything you could link with more information on these enhancements because this is all news to me and I've been through the official technical training manual from front to back.

This came up in a conversation I had with someone from Pureturbos. Try directing the question towards them and hopefully they can help.

If you have time look over some logs comparing the 2 cars. You’ll see the difference in wgdc up top for a given boost/load level showing the difference in efficiency. This can also be seen on hybrid turbo cars where the M2 needs less boost to hit a given whp level compared to the other n55 iterations.

[David.m]

Originally Posted by ZeroEmissionZ

I have access to a M135i , unfortunately not 235i or x40i. will it do ?

Have you though about affects on re-sale value of putting in a non-M2 block? I would have thought any $ savings on the re-build will be easily lost & then some when you eventually decide to sell.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Anthony1s

Not sure if it matters, but m235i reaches max hp at 5600rpm and m2 reaches it at 6600rpm. Maybe the better pistons and bearings help with that.

While true that BMW quotes that, on the dyno, both the M235 and M2 achieve peak power around 6000-6200rpms and have the same exact rate of power decline to fuel cut. I see absolutely no difference in the shape of the powerbands other than the M2 N55 makes about 30whp and 30wtq more power.

The biggest differences between the M2 and M235 N55s are the pistons, crank bearings, and that the M2 has a better oil pan, baffling, oil pump, and oil squirters. The M235 and M2 share the same forged crank, block, and S55 rods and rod bearings.

[Anthony1s]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

While true that BMW quotes that, on the dyno, both the M235 and M2 achieve peak power around 6000-6200rpms and have the same exact rate of power decline to fuel cut. I see absolutely no difference in the shape of the powerbands other than the M2 N55 makes about 30whp and 30wtq more power.

The biggest differences between the M2 and M235 N55s are the pistons, crank bearings, and that the M2 has a better oil pan, baffling, oil pump, and oil squirters. The M235 and M2 share the same forged crank, block, and S55 rods and rod bearings.

I didn't get that info from BMW, I got it from searching many dyno results on this forum of 235i and m2.

Also m235i and m2 doesn't use S55 rods and crank according to realoem. M2 and M235i both use the same N55 rods and crank.

There is no block part number on realoem so I can't say if n55 and s55 have same block or not. I would assume they are different as the s55 is closed deck and n55 is open deck.

M2 uses s55 rod bearings, on one crank (rear?) bearing from m235i and one (front?) from s55. I don't know which is front and which is rear, just that they are different. M235i doesn't uses any of that the same as s55.

I guess I missed all of that when I created my differences list earlier.

But, as discussed earlier, I guess realoem can be wrong. So take that however you want. I don't know what to make of it, myself.

[ZeroEmissionZ]

So will it plug and play 😭 m135i into m2? I’m happy to move around a few sensors etc but not internals ???

[akkando]

Originally Posted by ZeroEmissionZ

So will it plug and play 😭 m135i into m2? I’m happy to move around a few sensors etc but not internals ???

I don't know, I don't think the m135i has the EWG version of the engine? M135is would I assume.


You need to find someone who would know if this swap can be done reletivly painlessly or not, like find someone who has done swapped one N55 for another. Someone must have done something on a 335i or something?

If not or you can't find out, then as painful as it is, just get rid of that car and move on with your life.

[sea_m2c]

Turbo is the same, manifold is different. Its been discussed and even measured.

For what it's worth, which is what I mentioned on another thread that OP started on this problem, most of the stuff can be easily swapped to an M135/M235 N55B30O0 engine other than the S55 piston heads/rings that the M2 N55B30T0 gets. You would essentially have an M235iR engine at that point which have shown to be very durable in long term tracking scenarios.

[ZeroEmissionZ]

Originally Posted by sea_m235i

Turbo is the same, manifold is different. Its been discussed and even measured.

For what it's worth, which is what I mentioned on another thread that OP started on this problem, most of the stuff can be easily swapped to an M135/M235 N55B30O0 engine other than the S55 piston heads/rings that the M2 N55B30T0 gets. You would essentially have an M235iR engine at that point which have shown to be very durable in long term tracking scenarios.

other than the internals being different materials (forged or titanium) are the head the same, as in if one was to swap everything over (sensors, intakes, pan, etc) would it all work? I just bought a M135i motor 2014 bottom block

Confused a little here, so if the S55 stuff cant be swapped, does this also mean that the n55 stock motor (m135i example) internals cant be put into an M2 block ????

[ChristosD]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

I made a list for you guys.

No, you can't put a PWG N55 into M2, DMEs are different.

thank you for this, would it be possible to add the n54 versions to this list as well been looking for info on the n54 versions everywhere.

[ChristosD]

Originally Posted by akkando

I don't know, I don't think the m135i has the EWG version of the engine? M135is would I assume.


You need to find someone who would know if this swap can be done reletivly painlessly or not, like find someone who has done swapped one N55 for another. Someone must have done something on a 335i or something?

If not or you can't find out, then as painful as it is, just get rid of that car and move on with your life.

the m135i post july 2013 has the same engine as the 235i n55b30o0 which is EWG my m135i is EWG

[ZeroEmissionZ]

Originally Posted by ChristosD

the m135i post july 2013 has the same engine as the 235i n55b30o0 which is EWG my m135i is EWG

im not sure if you guys understand what Im asking, would the pistons fit , are they interchangeable ? are the crank, rods, bearings also interchangeable ? "will they fit?"

[ChristosD]

Originally Posted by ZeroEmissionZ

im not sure if you guys understand what Im asking, would the pistons fit , are they interchangeable ? are the crank, rods, bearings also interchangeable ? "will they fit?"

I stand to be corrected but everything internally from an m135/235 is the same as the m2 except for the piston head.

[Anthony1s]

Originally Posted by ZeroEmissionZ

other than the internals being different materials (forged or titanium) are the head the same, as in if one was to swap everything over (sensors, intakes, pan, etc) would it all work? I just bought a M135i motor 2014 bottom block

Confused a little here, so if the S55 stuff cant be swapped, does this also mean that the n55 stock motor (m135i example) internals cant be put into an M2 block ????

Originally Posted by ZeroEmissionZ

im not sure if you guys understand what Im asking, would the pistons fit , are they interchangeable ? are the crank, rods, bearings also interchangeable ? "will they fit?"

Well, nothing misunderstood. You simply didn't ask that before.

Everything is on RealOEM.com and various other free online resources, you can look it up and answer the questions yourself for the most part. Every answer I've given you was from me looking it up, because I like to be helpful. I'm not some magical BMW encyclopedia that knows this off the top of my head. It takes time from me to look up.

And seeing as you already bought the m135i engine before doing research to understand what you're getting into, doesn't seem like you learned a lesson from buying the M2 without fully evaluating the risks and possible scenarios that could happen. You could've (and should've) at the very least cross referenced both motors on RealOEM before purchasing it, and looked at ISTA+ (or whatever the name is) that has the M2 repair documentation and procedures in it.

To me, it seems like you're being completely careless by not doing so, by tossing your money at things hoping it will work and not get you into an even bigger mess. Which hasn't worked out so far.

[ZeroEmissionZ]

Originally Posted by Anthony1s

Well, nothing misunderstood. You simply didn't ask that before.

Everything is on RealOEM.com and various other free online resources, you can look it up and answer the questions yourself for the most part. Every answer I've given you was from me looking it up, because I like to be helpful. I'm not some magical BMW encyclopedia that knows this off the top of my head. It takes time from me to look up.

And seeing as you already bought the m135i engine before doing research to understand what you're getting into, doesn't seem like you learned a lesson from buying the M2 without fully evaluating the risks and possible scenarios that could happen. You could've (and should've) at the very least cross referenced both motors on RealOEM before purchasing it, and looked at ISTA+ (or whatever the name is) that has the M2 repair documentation and procedures in it.

To me, it seems like you're being completely careless by not doing so, by tossing your money at things hoping it will work and not get you into an even bigger mess. Which hasn't worked out so far.

-Reason I didn't check "real.oem" is as my readings of the discussions on here , the parts on the M2 and M135i part numbers seemed to be the same , yet they aren't , and the heads listed for the other n55s and not the M2 (wasn't sure if this was very reliable) I really appreciate you have helped me and taken the time to do the research that your correct I was and should of done I honestly thought maybe you guys were like BMW enthusiasts and knew this stuff of the top of your head, my apologies once again there for assuming so. To be honest I paid $40 for a whole car "M135i" so its not even a loss to me, I just have tried to upload photos here and finding its not working for me if I do it straight from my computer or put them onto a third party Url link. I guess my next question is , would a burnt out cars engine "internals" be usable ? I really appreciate your patience with me , and apologise on the miscommunication. Its hard to know exactly what question you want to ask, until you can grasp if your going to sound completely stupid, probably why I asked if they are same engines first and not "can I use the pistons out of a 2019 M6 into a M2 motor, and sound so dumb on here

[akkando]

You should sell the car and this m135i engine and move on.

[mr_lab_rat]

The problem is that the M2 is still relatively new. Also BMW is being a bit shady with the marketing. They tried to convince consumers that the M2 version of the N55 is significantly different than the one used in 235i. Checking part numbers showed that they are closer than they want you to believe.

If I was in your situation I would keep searching for a crashed M2. Get the right engine, part out the rest (you should be able to recover some cost by selling intact airbags, seats, wheels, etc ...)

Swapping alternative engines in new models is not easy/cheap.