BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
M2 Technical Topics > N55 Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning > max bhp from stock filter?

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-17-2019, 02:04 PM   #1
widetyres
Lieutenant
United Kingdom
279
Rep
488
Posts

Drives: M3 E92 DCT, 2012
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

max bhp from stock filter?

Hi,

Does anyone know the max bhp that the stock filter is good for?

Is Bm3 stage 2 ok with the stock paper filter?

I do have an oiled foam drop in at the moment, but considering going back to the stock item to maximise engine protection.

Thanks.
Appreciate 0
      10-17-2019, 02:30 PM   #2
cecaa850
Captain
United_States
259
Rep
699
Posts

Drives: 2018 M2
Join Date: May 2018
Location: South East TX.

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by widetyres View Post
Hi,

Does anyone know the max bhp that the stock filter is good for?

Is Bm3 stage 2 ok with the stock paper filter?

I do have an oiled foam drop in at the moment, but considering going back to the stock item to maximise engine protection.

Thanks.
Go with something like an AFE 31-10266 dry panel filter. Great protection and flow, no oiling.
Appreciate 0
      10-17-2019, 03:50 PM   #3
mike@x-ph.com
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
mike@x-ph.com's Avatar
United_States
23791
Rep
190,150
Posts


Drives: 07-335/12-328/18-M4/21-M4CP
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Las Vegas

iTrader: (23)

Quote:
Originally Posted by widetyres View Post
Hi,

Does anyone know the max bhp that the stock filter is good for?

Is Bm3 stage 2 ok with the stock paper filter?

I do have an oiled foam drop in at the moment, but considering going back to the stock item to maximise engine protection.

Thanks.
Hi,
I recommend upgrading it for a better air flow. that being said i doubt you would have any issues with stage 2
__________________
Check out our current sale by clicking on this link!
https://x-ph.com/sale/

Phone number 702-494-9435
Appreciate 1
widetyres279.00
      10-17-2019, 04:39 PM   #4
F87source
Major General
F87source's Avatar
No_Country
7178
Rep
7,343
Posts

Drives: Bmw M2
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: .

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by widetyres View Post
Hi,

Does anyone know the max bhp that the stock filter is good for?

Is Bm3 stage 2 ok with the stock paper filter?

I do have an oiled foam drop in at the moment, but considering going back to the stock item to maximise engine protection.

Thanks.
TBH the stock airbox and filter assembly isn't really a restricting factor, I remember a couple of years back there were some tests done by an individual with a m135i and PS2 saying even at 25psi an aftermarket intake didn't yield much in terms of gains. If I can find that n54tech link I will post it here.

But overall with the stock turbo your limiting factor is likely the turbo inlet way before the factory air intake and filter begins to be a limiting factor. I'd say if you had an upgraded turbo that's when you'll start having the oem intake as a bottle neck but even then it won't be that much.
__________________
Click on the link below to see a compiled list of every review I have ever written:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post30368242
Appreciate 2
widetyres279.00
TemjinX2520.50
      10-17-2019, 06:24 PM   #5
tom @ eas
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
tom @ eas's Avatar
United_States
8067
Rep
18,788
Posts


Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA

iTrader: (19)

Garage List
2018 BMW i3s  [0.00]
2010 BMW M3  [6.50]
2015 BMW M4  [5.25]
Ditching the charcoal liners and installing a set of filters is worth about ~8-10hp. Here's a build we had on the dyno just reaching 800whp on an M3 (S55) with stock airboxes (BMC Filters) and cooling system



Obviously, results will be different on N55. As for filters, BMC or nothing.
Appreciate 1
widetyres279.00
      10-17-2019, 06:35 PM   #6
F87source
Major General
F87source's Avatar
No_Country
7178
Rep
7,343
Posts

Drives: Bmw M2
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: .

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Ditching the charcoal liners and installing a set of filters is worth about ~8-10hp. Here's a build we had on the dyno just reaching 800whp on an M3 (S55) with stock airboxes (BMC Filters) and cooling system



Obviously, results will be different on N55. As for filters, BMC or nothing.
Damn thats a sweet m3! Does it have the SPLOCK or just the bolt capture or both?

From what I have seen gains only come when you're flowing alot of air which comes when making substantial amounts of power something not seen on a simple stage 2 tune and stock turbos.

Filters won't offer much of a gain for the N55 since the air box tube is tapered about 30cm past the air box when it is running parallel with the intercooler. So when the N55 intake does come restricting it is the whole unit itself not really the filter.

I heard BMC does make some nice filters, but its ~$125 for an m2 drop in filter which is more than half way (~$100) from an entire cold air intake replacement so personally I dont think it's worth it.
__________________
Click on the link below to see a compiled list of every review I have ever written:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post30368242
Appreciate 0
      10-17-2019, 06:55 PM   #7
tom @ eas
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
tom @ eas's Avatar
United_States
8067
Rep
18,788
Posts


Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA

iTrader: (19)

Garage List
2018 BMW i3s  [0.00]
2010 BMW M3  [6.50]
2015 BMW M4  [5.25]
Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
Damn thats a sweet m3! Does it have the SPLOCK or just the bolt capture or both?

From what I have seen gains only come when you're flowing alot of air which comes when making substantial amounts of power something not seen on a simple stage 2 tune and stock turbos.

Filters won't offer much of a gain for the N55 since the air box tube is tapered about 30cm past the air box when it is running parallel with the intercooler. So when the N55 intake does come restricting it is the whole unit itself not really the filter.

I heard BMC does make some nice filters, but its ~$125 for an m2 drop in filter which is more than half way (~$100) from an entire cold air intake replacement so personally I dont think it's worth it.
Running both SplineLock and Crank Bolt Capture.

The quality of BMC filters are fantastic when compared to others, especially in media and bleed/wick areas. Pure also offers a modified inlet pipe to get rid of the restriction.
Appreciate 0
      10-17-2019, 07:11 PM   #8
F87source
Major General
F87source's Avatar
No_Country
7178
Rep
7,343
Posts

Drives: Bmw M2
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: .

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Running both SplineLock and Crank Bolt Capture.

The quality of BMC filters are fantastic when compared to others, especially in media and bleed/wick areas. Pure also offers a modified inlet pipe to get rid of the restriction.
Ahh I see, I wish I was closer to you guys since no one in my area has done an install for this stuff before and I don't fancy being a test dummy.


Yeah BMC makes good stuff, all the Porsche guys love them from what I hear, but it's not worth getting a drop in filter over a full intake IMO. But with the stock turbo and even with an upgraded stage 2 turbo I don't really think there is a need to upgrade the stock intake. Speedtech's development F30 is running the factory intake and they're still making great power.

The pure inlet will remove the turbo inlet restriction which is the main restriction even with a stock turbo, but when you have an upgrade turbo (likely stage 3's since I have seen a few PS2 guys at 25psi say intakes still dont offer much benefit) and flow enough air the stock intake tube itself is a restriction. The area im referring to the the stock intake body where the rectangle that is post MAF tapers down. You don't normally see this taper when the intake is in the car since it occurs in the Z axis if you look straight down on the intake while it's in the car and define X as horizontal (head light to head light) and Y as the vertical axis (going to the front and back of the car).
__________________
Click on the link below to see a compiled list of every review I have ever written:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post30368242
Appreciate 1
widetyres279.00
      10-18-2019, 12:44 AM   #9
widetyres
Lieutenant
United Kingdom
279
Rep
488
Posts

Drives: M3 E92 DCT, 2012
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Ditching the charcoal liners and installing a set of filters is worth about ~8-10hp. Here's a build we had on the dyno just reaching 800whp on an M3 (S55) with stock airboxes (BMC Filters) and cooling system



Obviously, results will be different on N55. As for filters, BMC or nothing.
Wow! Seriously impressive numbers.
Appreciate 0
      10-19-2019, 04:36 AM   #10
Yellowflash21
First Lieutenant
Slovenia
370
Rep
354
Posts

Drives: M2
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Slovenia

iTrader: (0)

I had issue with K&N filter. The mpg on cruise control was not constant, and tuner recommended that stock filter has enough flow to even push things on PS2.
Appreciate 1
widetyres279.00
      10-23-2019, 02:39 AM   #11
Track/S
Major
Track/S's Avatar
1283
Rep
1,299
Posts

Drives: M2C, M4 GTS
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Around the world

iTrader: (0)

M2 F87
Stock filter
Hybrid turbo
Downpipe
XXL intercoler
B58 fuel pump
Walbro pump in tank
1.4bar
Ron98

460hp

With k&n filter same power.





Appreciate 4
      10-24-2019, 12:38 AM   #12
widetyres
Lieutenant
United Kingdom
279
Rep
488
Posts

Drives: M3 E92 DCT, 2012
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodrive_X View Post
M2 F87
Stock filter
Hybrid turbo
Downpipe
XXL intercoler
B58 fuel pump
Walbro pump in tank
1.4bar
Ron98

460hp

With k&n filter same power.





Thanks for posting this info - super useful!
Appreciate 0
      10-24-2019, 01:39 AM   #13
F87source
Major General
F87source's Avatar
No_Country
7178
Rep
7,343
Posts

Drives: Bmw M2
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: .

iTrader: (1)

Yes thanks for posting this, finally this can be put to rest that drop in filters don't yield power gains even on a tuned car.......
__________________
Click on the link below to see a compiled list of every review I have ever written:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post30368242
Appreciate 0
      10-24-2019, 02:08 AM   #14
Track/S
Major
Track/S's Avatar
1283
Rep
1,299
Posts

Drives: M2C, M4 GTS
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Around the world

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by widetyres View Post
Thanks for posting this info - super useful!
Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
Yes thanks for posting this, finally this can be put to rest that drop in filters don't yield power gains even on a tuned car.......
I've always liked the oem look, the only thing I modified inlet pipe



Appreciate 0
      10-24-2019, 02:27 AM   #15
F87source
Major General
F87source's Avatar
No_Country
7178
Rep
7,343
Posts

Drives: Bmw M2
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: .

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodrive_X View Post
I've always liked the oem look, the only thing I modified inlet pipe



That will get you real gains, about 5-15whp depending on the tune, turbo etc. Likely with the stock turbo you'll get 5whp sheerly because it flows more air and allows for reduced wgdc.

There was a really good dyno comparison on n54tech but I can't find it anymore, I don't know if the photos were taken down or if the hosting site stopped sharing it.
__________________
Click on the link below to see a compiled list of every review I have ever written:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post30368242
Appreciate 1
widetyres279.00
      02-11-2020, 01:21 AM   #16
ried
Captain
ried's Avatar
United_States
792
Rep
817
Posts

Drives: F31, F80
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
Yes thanks for posting this, finally this can be put to rest that drop in filters don't yield power gains even on a tuned car.......
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2020, 02:03 AM   #17
F87source
Major General
F87source's Avatar
No_Country
7178
Rep
7,343
Posts

Drives: Bmw M2
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: .

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ried View Post
The comparison between the Crosstrek and the m2 isn't even remotely similar. First off the crosstrek is naturally aspirated vs. a turbo charged m2, next the airbox design is completely different with the M performance or M variants of the n55 having an additional opening on the airbox for more air flow, and the crosstrek also has a charcoal filter whereas we do not.

The main restriction on our cars is the turbo inlet where it tapers down like crazy, whereas on the naturally aspirated Crosstrek the car would benefit from a higher flowing intake. You can go look on the forums there are people who have dynoed the n55 without a filter in it and have seen no gains. Even in this video the Crosstrek barely gained anything.
__________________
Click on the link below to see a compiled list of every review I have ever written:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post30368242
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2020, 02:28 AM   #18
ried
Captain
ried's Avatar
United_States
792
Rep
817
Posts

Drives: F31, F80
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
The comparison between the Crosstrek and the m2 isn't even remotely similar.
You said "drop in filters don't yield power gains even on a tuned car" not "a tuned M2" and 2-3% isn't what I'd describe as "barely gained anything." But whatever. Argue on the internet some more.
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2020, 02:59 AM   #19
F87source
Major General
F87source's Avatar
No_Country
7178
Rep
7,343
Posts

Drives: Bmw M2
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: .

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ried View Post
You said "drop in filters don't yield power gains even on a tuned car" not "a tuned M2" and 2-3% isn't what I'd describe as "barely gained anything." But whatever. Argue on the internet some more.
Well my apologies for not being clear, by tuned car I was referring to a tuned m2 in the context of this thread.

The percentage is deceiving because in the case of a low horsepower car like the crosstrek, 2-3% is only ~2 horsepower. If there was data for atleast 3 runs on each filter you could calculate standard deviation and see if this gain was statistically significant. This would be a more accurate way of measuring power gains, and if it was actually valid. I have my doubts it is actually significant, and it could be run to run variances as the car gets hotter or has more time to cool down between runs, there are so many variables involved.


Overall my post was regarding the m2 and the n55 motor where there is evidence that the stock intake is not the limiting factor. Whether or not you buy an intake is up to you, just dont expect a 25 whp gain. I personally buy an intake for the sound.
__________________
Click on the link below to see a compiled list of every review I have ever written:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post30368242
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2020, 06:44 AM   #20
cecaa850
Captain
United_States
259
Rep
699
Posts

Drives: 2018 M2
Join Date: May 2018
Location: South East TX.

iTrader: (0)

This is the N55 M2 area. Who cares what happens on other cars?
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2020, 12:36 PM   #21
F87source
Major General
F87source's Avatar
No_Country
7178
Rep
7,343
Posts

Drives: Bmw M2
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: .

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cecaa850 View Post
This is the N55 M2 area. Who cares what happens on other cars?
+1
__________________
Click on the link below to see a compiled list of every review I have ever written:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post30368242
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2020, 03:13 PM   #22
Orange fever
Colonel
Orange fever's Avatar
Thailand
2349
Rep
2,828
Posts

Drives: E36M,E46M,E90M,X5M,i3,M2,i8
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SoCal. in the hood!!!

iTrader: (5)

100hp on a butt dyno...
Real life 1-2 maybe 3 HP
__________________

BMW I12 i8 Frozen Yellow- H&R springs, 22" Radenergie F10 Monoblock Forged ///
F87 M2 Aw -Vorsteiner Aero Kit, VFF-107,Macht Schnell-Springs,VF-Engineering/Hex tuning Stage Two,ER DP,Stock Exhaust,Drop-In Bmc Filter,AA Intercooler,FTP Charge pipe+boost pipe/// Wish list :Mexico delivery 2024 BMW M2 (G87)
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:06 AM.




m2
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST