[F87source]

Hey Guys,

Has anyone done their differential and manual transmission fluid flushes yet? I know a few F8X guys have done this already, but my question was if you guys have used non oem fluids.

I know the m2 requires MTF-LT-5 for the manual transmission and SAF-XJ rated fluid for the differential, and bmw has stated that an equivalent like castrol's 75W140 syntrax LSD would be ok for the diff. Has anyone used this before?

Thanks
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Edit - 20/04/22

So from the time I created this thread until now I have learned alot about differential oil on this platform and its availability. So here is a brief summary:

1) You should use MSP/A if you can get it, this is what bmw stipulates to use via ista, real oem (their etk which real oem displays), and their differential recall tsb.
2) I have realized that MSP/A is not available in the USA, so if you're in the US I would recommend to use SAF-XJ (not SAF-XJ + FM), the difference probably isn't huge and you should be absolutely fine with this. This might be the case in Canada as well, as I am hearing MSP/A is no longer available here. So alot of the earlier information I posted was deemed to be not fully accurate on this matter, because I was not aware MSP/A is not at all available in the USA. So if you cannot get MSP/A use SAF-XJ don't feel obligated to get it if you can't find it.
3) Check your dealer invoice after the break in service, I have seem some cases where dealers are using SAF-XO fluid for the fluid change. This is fluid meant for open differentials and not limited slip diffs like what we have in our cars. So please ensure you don't have this fluid as it can cause severe damage, as it isn't the proper weight and doesn't have the required friction modifiers that the clutch packs require.

4) This is an iffy one, but I would stay clear of aftermarket fluids if possible. I keep seeing stories of how fragile these diffs are and failing prematurely, some due to clutch packs wearing out early, some due to SAF-XJ +FM fluids being used (E9X m3 specified diff oil) - which is scary because some aftermarket differential oils are also suitable for the e9x m3 which makes me worried that it might have too much friction modifiers for our F8X diffs. so I would probably stick with OEM fluids for now.

[Gabhart]

I changed mine myself at 9,700 miles and used BMW fluid for warranty reasons. BMW 83-22-2-357-992 SAF-XJ 75W 140 Rear Axle Fluid

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Gabhart

I changed mine myself at 9,700 miles and used BMW fluid for warranty reasons. BMW 83-22-2-357-992 SAF-XJ 75W 140 Rear Axle Fluid

Thanks for your comment, and P/N.

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...ive/1VnczONFlo

Here is the link for the fluid recomendations incase anyone needs it.

PS: It has since changed due to the recall in 2016, bmw now recommends any F8X owners to use MSP/A differential oil, not SAF-XJ.

I believe the MSP/A oil is still SAF-XJ, but there may be additional additives. I think they did this because too many people kept using SAF-XJ + FM which damaged the diff and was only mean for the E9X M cars.










Anyways on a different note I was wondering if anyone used the approved aftermarket oils. I am looking to use the castrol syntrax limited slip oil since it is alot cheaper than the OEM stuff (in canada anyways) and is approved as an alternate to bmw MSP/A.

[Daytona_550]

Subscribed (plan to do this myself after a few more track days).

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Daytona_550

Subscribed (plan to do this myself after a few more track days).

I'm planning to do mine later this year, maybe September time so guess either one of us will be first lol to experiment I guess.

Are you planning to go oem fluid or aftermarket?

[Daytona_550]

Most likely will go w/ OEM fluids (whether branded "BMW" or otherwise).

[m20e3087]

So what's the correct part number, local dealer is saying SAF-XJ-FM but online retailers are saying SAF-XJ 83222357992.

Edit: was able to find my paperwork, 992 was done at 1200 miles service. Not sure why parts ppl told me otherwise.

[debug]

Originally Posted by m20e3087

So what's the correct part number, local dealer is saying SAF-XJ-FM but online retailers are saying SAF-XJ 83222357992.

Edit: was able to find my paperwork, 992 was done at 1200 miles service. Not sure why parts ppl told me otherwise.

Ya, the SAF-XJ is the correct fluid for the M2C differential.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by m20e3087

So what's the correct part number, local dealer is saying SAF-XJ-FM but online retailers are saying SAF-XJ 83222357992.

Edit: was able to find my paperwork, 992 was done at 1200 miles service. Not sure why parts ppl told me otherwise.

Your dealer is incorrect, alot of dealers are making this mistake not sure why. But when the m4 first launched dealers frequently messed up and filled the diff with saf-xj + fm which was used only for the old E series diff instead of the F series M cars. This caused premature wear and tear on the F series diff.

At some point during the F series life cycle bmw ditched saf-xj for MSP/A which is now the recommended differential fluid. Alot of dealers and online vendors and online forum advice is still recommending the outdated saf-xj which is absolutely incorrect.

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/par...&q=83222365988
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...ive/1VndHi1Cfw

Part number: 83222365988

So this is the oil you should be getting. Fortunately my dealer is on top of their game (unlike alot of other dealers) and this is what I got during servicing.


I finally found a retailer for MSP/A in Canada that is selling it for a reasonable price so I will no longer be going with the Castrol syntrax limited slip oil.

Originally Posted by debug

Ya, the SAF-XJ is the correct fluid for the M2C differential.

Incorrect it's MSP/A, bmw updated the fluid requirements.

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/par...&q=83222365988

Part number: 83222365988

[m20e3087]

Originally Posted by F87source

Your dealer is incorrect, alot of dealers are making this mistake not sure why. But when the m4 first launched dealers frequently messed up and filled the diff with saf-xj + fm which was used only for the old E series diff instead of the F series M cars. This caused premature wear and tear on the F series diff.

At some point during the F series life cycle bmw ditched saf-xj for MSP/A which is now the recommended differential fluid. Alot of dealers and online vendors and online forum advice is still recommending the outdated saf-xj which is absolutely incorrect.

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/par...;q=83222365988
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...ive/1VndHi1Cfw

Part number: 83222365988

So this is the oil you should be getting.


I finally found a retailer for MSP/A in Canada that is selling it for a reasonable price so I will no longer be going with the Castrol syntrax limited slip oil.

Incorrect it's MSP/A, bmw updated the fluid requirements.

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/par...;q=83222365988

Part number: 83222365988

Interesting, not sure who is selling this in the US, unless we go other manufactures.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by m20e3087

Interesting, not sure who is selling this in the US, unless we go other manufactures.

Dealerships are selling it. I found a dealer that is selling to for pretty cheap, comparable to the Castrol syntrax.

Ecs tuning should also be selling this

[m20e3087]

Originally Posted by F87source

Dealerships are selling it. I found a dealer that is selling to for pretty cheap, comparable to the Castrol syntrax.

Ecs tuning should also be selling this

These are hits I am getting.


https://www.bimmerworld.com/Fluids/D...222365988.html


https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...z4-83222282583

[F87source]

Originally Posted by m20e3087

These are hits I am getting.


https://www.bimmerworld.com/Fluids/D...222365988.html


https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...z4-83222282583

Oh yes I remember now, the MSP/A p/n for some reason was not able to find it for sale.

You're going to have to call your dealer, and local dealers to find a location willing to not rip you off.

[2020M2Competition]

Well, this is a little confusing

Especially since I can't even find the BMW 75W-140 MSP/A 83-22-2-365-988 available anywhere

My dealer used BMW 75W-140 SAF-XJ 83-22-2-357-992 at the 1200 mile service and I'm pretty sure that's what most dealer's (at least in the USA) are using

I THINK the most important thing is not to be using the older BMW 75W-140 SAF-XJ+FM 83-22-2-282-583

In the link provided above (and again here below) it also lists Castrol SAF-XJ as an approved rear axle differential oil

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...ive/1VndHi1Cfw

Therefore, I THINK the BMW SAF-XJ should be fine as well

[F87source]

Originally Posted by 2020M2Competition

Well, this is a little confusing

Especially since I can't even find the BMW 75W-140 MSP/A 83-22-2-365-988 available anywhere

My dealer used BMW 75W-140 SAF-XJ 83-22-2-357-992 at the 1200 mile service and I'm pretty sure that's what most dealer's (at least in the USA) are using

I THINK the most important thing is not to be using the older BMW 75W-140 SAF-XJ+FM 83-22-2-282-583

In the link provided above (and again here below) it also lists Castrol SAF-XJ as an approved rear axle differential oil

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...ive/1VndHi1Cfw

Therefore, I THINK the BMW SAF-XJ should be fine as well

Yeah I spent more time looking and I could not find MSP/A anywhere online for sale, the last time I checked I thought ecs had it.


On a side note, MSP/A is the oil that is Supposed to be used no exceptions. My dealer used it for me back in 2017 during my break in oil change. I know alot of dealers are not using MSP/A for what ever reason (incompetence, trying to use old stock etc), but alot of them do like they are supposed to.


Yes that newtis link was what I posted earlier as well, and bmw said castrol syntrax is acceptable, saf-XJ was approved earlier on as well before they switched over, so it should be ok but no real guarantees.


But personally if I had a choice (which I do now since my local dealer is able to sell MSP/A to me for a reasonable price) I would use MSP/A since these diffs are finicky as hell, and I want to prolong its life.

[m20e3087]

Originally Posted by F87source

Yeah I spent more time looking and I could not find MSP/A anywhere online for sale, the last time I checked I thought ecs had it.


On a side note, MSP/A is the oil that is Supposed to be used no exceptions. My dealer used it for me back in 2017 during my break in oil change. I know alot of dealers are not using MSP/A for what ever reason (incompetence, trying to use old stock etc), but alot of them do like they are supposed to.


Yes that newtis link was what I posted earlier as well, and bmw said castrol syntrax is acceptable, saf-XJ was approved earlier on as well before they switched over, so it should be ok but no real guarantees.


But personally if I had a choice (which I do now since my local dealer is able to sell MSP/A to me for a reasonable price) I would use MSP/A since these diffs are finicky as hell, and I want to prolong its life.

Called few local BMWs, all are saying 992 is the replacement for 988. So who knows. Going after market maybe another option.

[JustinHEMI]

This is what my dealer just did. Should I be concerned?

[F87source]

Originally Posted by m20e3087

Called few local BMWs, all are saying 992 is the replacement for 988. So who knows. Going after market maybe another option.

Weird, but that's not what the bmw etk, tis, and tsb (that was released awhile back) says.

Since I've seen so many dealers mess up with this simple procedure by still filling up with the saf-xj + FM fluid, I wouldn't trust them. I would trust the recommendations of bmw directly which is to run MSP/A.

If you cannot get this I guess it would be a toss up between Castrol syntrax or saf-xj. What I can say is that saf-xj was used previously and I don't remember their being an issue, but Castrol syntrax is indeed recommended as a suitable replacement by bmw so it's your choice on what to use. I personally would have went with syntrax by following the tis.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by JustinHEMI

This is what my dealer just did. Should I be concerned?

Yeah you should be very worried. Your dealer majorly messed up, looking at saf-xo it is not the correct weight at 75w90 instead of 75w140.

Next is that it was made for non limited slip diffs so it does not have the correct friction modifiers to make the clutch discs slip properly without major wear and tear. So your diff is at a huge risk of failing prematurely.


This is a prime example of why I don't trust dealer ships.

[JustinHEMI]

Fuckers, and I put about 1000 miles on it since then, including hard driving. I am going on a rally this weekend. I need to find a place to get the correct stuff and do it myself. I assume it's a standard diff..., drain and fill plugs?

[JustinHEMI]

This site also says 992 is replacement for 988. Is the 992 correct?

https://www.bimmerworld.com/Fluids/D...222365988.html

Thanks
Justin

[F87source]

Originally Posted by F87source

Yeah you should be very worried. Your dealer majorly messed up, looking at saf-xo it is not the correct weight at 75w90 instead of 75w140.

Next is that it was made for non limited slip diffs so it does not have the correct friction modifiers to make the clutch discs slip properly without major wear and tear. So your diff is at a huge risk of failing prematurely.


This is a prime example of why I don't trust dealer ships.

Also I wanted to add on that it is absolutely mind blowing dealers are still making mistakes on this on procedure. I would also check the part numbers of your oil and oil filter to ensure there is no mess up. Because I know another common mess up is that the dealership will put a Mann hu816x (filter for common n55's and n54's) instead of a Mann hu8011z (filters for the m2 N55 and s55) filter.

Another piece of advice is not to leave the dealer until you check all of the part numbers to the bmw etk. I'm lucky enough that my dealer is really competent (and they know I'm crazy OCD so they graciously take good care of me) so I don't have to worry too much, even though I still really do not like dealerships at all because I'm worried they will mess up.