[stefan]

Originally Posted by boostm3

Interesting; not exactly what we wanted to hear. .I mean, losing the snap, crackle, and pop from the overruns as well as its higher strung demeaner is a high price to pay for lessening the annoying ASD.

This so pisses me off. BMW always does this crap. I made another post about it elsewhere, but I faced similar crap with my 135i.. First or second 'mandatory' software update totally killed the throttle response and it changed the character of the vehicle that I bought.. The only way to bring it back was to purchase the PPK which at least I got them to cooperate on.

But seriously, when the basic character of the product we bought is changed, there should be hell to pay.

I'm grateful for the reduction in ASD but certainly find the reduced urgency of the motor to be a huge downer. I would even wager that the boost profile was altered. Call me crazy but I am struggling to explain what feels like reduced timing across lower rpms.

I also have discovered a throttle / boost related vibration limited exclusively to WOT application above 4krpm. Doubt its software related but a fun new thing to find after break in service. Is that normal behaviour for this car?

Added a few new points to my previous post on changes I've noticed so far.

[Mosely]

Quite a few people now have mentioned loss of burbles after the "mandatory" update, but others have said it wasn't changed at all so it's very confusing. Most have mentioned that the car felt a bit more peppy and shifted quicker (DCT) though. I wish we had a more definitive before and after.

I really enjoy the burbles as they are so will probably just tell them I don't have time to leave the car for iStep update when I go in for my yearly oil change.

[Dabozo]

Originally Posted by Mosely

Quite a few people now have mentioned loss of burbles after the "mandatory" update, but others have said it wasn't changed at all so it's very confusing. Most have mentioned that the car felt a bit more peppy and shifted quicker (DCT) though. I wish we had a more definitive before and after.

I really enjoy the burbles as they are so will probably just tell them I don't have time to leave the car for iStep update when I go in for my yearly oil change.

I was hoping there would be some sort of pattern with the istep software versions and member feedback but no such luck....it's all over the place and there seems to be a lot of different versions out there.

[Nezil]

Originally Posted by stefan

I'm grateful for the reduction in ASD but certainly find the reduced urgency of the motor to be a huge downer. I would even wager that the boost profile was altered. Call me crazy but I am struggling to explain what feels like reduced timing across lower rpms.

This pricked my ears up a little...

My car is a 6MT LCI, and as such, it's had pretty recent iSTEP since new, though it did get the dash update at the break in service and everything does get flashed at that point.

Anyway... I've never been happy with the performance of the car when it's at low boost. I've just described this in my post about first experiences of BM3 stage 1.

I was talking to a colleague about this today, and I found a better way to describe the car's driving characteristics than I posted yesterday...

It felt to me, like you could either drive it slowly, in which case you wouldn't scare your (more delicate) passengers, or you could drive it fast, in which case it would certainly scare your passengers, but it would also be a quite uncomfortable ride because the acceleration is quite agressive when you're 'on it', and changing gears in a 6MT stops this rapid acceleration. There was no middle ground, and it actually bothered me quite a bit. Changing between Comfort, Sport and Sport+ all changed the pedal response, just moved this fine line between slow and agressive around, it didn't spread it out.

After I flashed the BM3 Stage 1 91 AKI OTS tune, the car was transformed. Sure, it's quicker, as you would expect, but most importantly, the performance under partial throttle is way different. I don't thing it's not about boost at this point, because at part throttle, the boost isn't maxed out; I think it's about timing, and this was confirmed by SeanWRT when he described the characteristics of the BM3 Stage 1 tune.

Regarding the overrun burbles, I've never felt that they were particularly impressive on my car, probably because of the iSTEP being later. In Comfort there were no burbles at all. In Sport, maybe for about a second, and in Sport+ maybe 2 seconds. Again, this changed with the BM3 tune, but it's really interesting to hear that the later iSTEP levels don't have this characteristic that I thought the M2 was famous for.

[Mosely]

Originally Posted by Nezil

This pricked my ears up a little...

My car is a 6MT LCI, and as such, it's had pretty recent iSTEP since new, though it did get the dash update at the break in service and everything does get flashed at that point.

Anyway... I've never been happy with the performance of the car when it's at low boost. I've just described this in my post about first experiences of BM3 stage 1.

I was talking to a colleague about this today, and I found a better way to describe the car's driving characteristics than I posted yesterday...

It felt to me, like you could either drive it slowly, in which case you wouldn't scare your (more delicate) passengers, or you could drive it fast, in which case it would certainly scare your passengers, but it would also be a quite uncomfortable ride because the acceleration is quite agressive when you're 'on it', and changing gears in a 6MT stops this rapid acceleration. There was no middle ground, and it actually bothered me quite a bit. Changing between Comfort, Sport and Sport+ all changed the pedal response, just moved this fine line between slow and agressive around, it didn't spread it out.

After I flashed the BM3 Stage 1 91 AKI OTS tune, the car was transformed. Sure, it's quicker, as you would expect, but most importantly, the performance under partial throttle is way different. I don't thing it's not about boost at this point, because at part throttle, the boost isn't maxed out; I think it's about timing, and this was confirmed by SeanWRT when he described the characteristics of the BM3 Stage 1 tune.

Regarding the overrun burbles, I've never felt that they were particularly impressive on my car, probably because of the iSTEP being later. In Comfort there were no burbles at all. In Sport, maybe for about a second, and in Sport+ maybe 2 seconds. Again, this changed with the BM3 tune, but it's really interesting to hear that the later iSTEP levels don't have this characteristic that I thought the M2 was famous for.

I do agree with a lot of what youre saying. Flash tuning definitely gives you the ability fine tune many of the quirks and issues with the car but I think a majority of us are still wary about doing it to an in-warranty car given the abundance of contradictory information out there and concerns over losing powertrain warranty (or the whole warranty?). I'd go with BM3 in a heartbeat if that weren't the case but I just can't risk it.

As for the overrun burbles, I have the sportcat but I'd describe them as burbles in traction mode but as more sharp pops in sport+. They definitely last longer in traction mode and the RPM seems to hang for a second to accomodate that, but I actually prefer the crisp, more "authentic" pops in sport+. I'd be sad to lose that dynamic of the exhaust.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Mosely

I do agree with a lot of what youre saying. Flash tuning definitely gives you the ability fine tune many of the quirks and issues with the car but I think a majority of us are still wary about doing it to an in-warranty car given the abundance of contradictory information out there and concerns over losing powertrain warranty (or the whole warranty?). I'd go with BM3 in a heartbeat if that weren't the case but I just can't risk it.

As for the overrun burbles, I have the sportcat but I'd describe them as burbles in traction mode but as more sharp pops in sport+. They definitely last longer in traction mode and the RPM seems to hang for a second to accomodate that, but I actually prefer the crisp, more "authentic" pops in sport+. I'd be sad to lose that dynamic of the exhaust.

How come you're comfortable getting a sport cat but not a tune?

[Dabozo]

Originally Posted by Nezil

This pricked my ears up a little...

My car is a 6MT LCI, and as such, it's had pretty recent iSTEP since new, though it did get the dash update at the break in service and everything does get flashed at that point.

This whole experience has left me strongly considering BM3 as well . For the performance gains obviously but it would also help on the sound front.
I take it your car is bone stock?
How happy are you with the performance of the stage 1?

EDIT- I found your thread on BM3. Subscribed.

[Nezil]

Originally Posted by Dabozo

This whole experience has left me strongly considering BM3 as well . For the performance gains obviously but it would also help on the sound front.
I take it your car is bone stock?
How happy are you with the performance of the stage 1?

I'm loving the performance of Stage 1, and I'm only on 91 AKI E10 fuel here in CA.

My car is currently bone stock, besides cosmetic modifications, but I have a CSF FMIC, Fabspeed Sport Cat DP and FTP Boost and Charge pipes on the way. My plan was to go straight to Stage 2, and I do still plan to spend the $50 on the OTS tune pack, but I'm now not so sure it's necessary.

Switching tunes with BM3 takes about a minute if you have the Raspberry Pi box, so I can quickly switch to the 93 AKI tune if I get a chance to mix up a tank with some 101 AKI fuel (there is a station about 40 mins drive from me that sells 101 AKI).

[Dabozo]

Originally Posted by Nezil

I'm loving the performance of Stage 1, and I'm only on 91 AKI E10 fuel here in CA.

My car is currently bone stock, besides cosmetic modifications, but I have a CSF FMIC, Fabspeed Sport Cat DP and FTP Boost and Charge pipes on the way. My plan was to go straight to Stage 2, and I do still plan to spend the $50 on the OTS tune pack, but I'm now not so sure it's necessary.

Switching tunes with BM3 takes about a minute if you have the Raspberry Pi box, so I can quickly switch to the 93 AKI tune if I get a chance to mix up a tank with some 101 AKI fuel (there is a station about 40 mins drive from me that sells 101 AKI).

That's great to hear that you feel stage 1 may be enough. I know it's all subjective but It's good to know that, for those who worry about warranty issues don't have to go crazy with bolt ons and stage 2 etc that may 'strain' the car, and still put a smile on their face.
It's also good to know that however bmw decides to screw ppl by potentially dumbing down the car with these goofy updates, there are great options out there that appear to be well put together (reliable) and don't break the bank.

[Nezil]

I too am concerned about warranty, but I decided to take the risk based on the number of people that have done tunes, and the small number of people that have ever had any long term issues.

Besides the differential recall in the early days, there isn't, to my knowledge, a warranty claims thread on this forum, so I think that we can deduce from that, that these cars are pretty reliable. A new engine isn't cheap, but it's also less than the cost of an entirely new car, so you're not risking your whole car.

I'm going to be doing all of the install myself, and will be setting the car back stock whenever I take it in for a service. I realise that's a lot of work, and that it probably wouldn't stop a dealer from working out that you'd done modifications if they really wanted to, but it probably will prevent the car from being flagged. My thinking then is that if I get an issue that isn't drivetrain related, at least I won't battle with trying to get it fixed under warranty. If it is drivetrain related, I'll probably just have to cough up for the repairs.

[Mosely]

Originally Posted by akkando

How come you're comfortable getting a sport cat but not a tune?

Well, the sport cat can be removed in the event of a major failure or before service if you want to be extra safe, without leaving potential shadow codes or other signs in the ECU and would be tougher to void your whole warranty like might be seen with a tune. I think the chance of you losing your warranty with a tune when smart about it is very very low, but the fact that there is still a risk turns myself and likely many other people off from the idea. No one expects to be that one guy who gets a defective engine/turbo/diff/tranny but it happens and a 5-10k repair bill is rough, in addition to the resale taking a hit.

[M2C_PLUS]

Originally Posted by stefan

6hr of software updates today including the cluster recall. Kind of interesting.. my experience:

- less urgency, car seems a little lazier in all profiles
- exhaust overrun is almost inaudible, significantly reduced; total overrun time is probably halved.
- ASD... almost gone essentially. Can barely hear it.

Certainly not more power.

edit: new version is N18092I

more notes
- data privacy includes many more check boxes now.. be sure to go into this menu. It now includes "driving behaviour and habits" as auto submit to BMW
- Bluetooth seems more reliable and devices connect faster
- Map is faster
- comfort mode auto rev match is lazier: if you got used to it previously you will now need to be in Sport for rev match to be smooth
- still no "disable auto rev match" option
- comfort mode throttle sensitivity increased

What is you car? Mine is a LCI DCT and I had that latest software update and have experienced the opposite to what you have said.

Car is just as potent to drive, ASD is reduced slightly. Drive in comfort in top gear at 3.5k rpm then put her into sports mode, you will hear-the ASD/drone get louder, if you don't the update was not done correctly.

My pops/crackles/burbles are still there, very much so. After having a 200sports cat fitted they are even louder still.


The does seem to be a few inconsistency with the results of this latest update. I wonder why?

[Dabozo]

I too have version N180921.

6mt 2017 pre lci.

I feel the over run sounds are back to normal vs the previous update which seemed to kill the sounds.

[boostm3]

Ok, so now more confused than ever:

1) Stefan.. your initial notes indicated a lazier engine response in all modes, but your updated notes indicated a more sensitive throttle response in comfort mode. I may be misinterpreting, but this sounds like a contradiction. Are you rescinding your initial comment on engine alacrity?

2) More interesting are the conflicting comments on the exhaust overrun snaps, crackles, and pops. Now we are seeing the same upgrade version with Stefan and Dabozo: N180921. Stefan, you didnt amend your initial notes on the loss of these with the upgrade, yet Dabozo is stating, with the same software version, these sounds have been undiminished by this upgrade.

Sure would like to know what is going on with this software update, since we'll all likely receive it the next time we visit out dealerships. I want to thank Stefan and Dabozo, and all other commenters, about this confusing issue. We welcome all thoughts, comments, and experiences related to this version update.

[stefan]

Originally Posted by boostm3

Ok, so now more confused than ever:

1) Stefan.. your initial notes indicated a lazier engine response in all modes, but your updated notes indicated a more sensitive throttle response in comfort mode. I may be misinterpreting, but this sounds like a contradiction. Are you rescinding your initial comment on engine alacrity?

2) More interesting are the conflicting comments on the exhaust overrun snaps, crackles, and pops. Now we are seeing the same upgrade version with Stefan and Dabozo: N180921. Stefan, you didnt amend your initial notes on the loss of these with the upgrade, yet Dabozo is stating, with the same software version, these sounds have been undiminished by this upgrade.

Sure would like to know what is going on with this software update, since we'll all likely receive it the next time we visit out dealerships. I want to thank Stefan and Dabozo, and all other commenters, about this confusing issue. We welcome all thoughts, comments, and experiences related to this version update.

To clarify, I mean that upper RPM boost profile seems softer in all mods but the on-throttle response in comofrt is a little less sluggish. So like 10% throttle on comfort mode maybe is like 15 or 20% now. Seems like a different throttle map. That isn't speaking to the boost profile.

Let me add a disclaimer; these are my personal thoughts on the matter. Make of it what you will.

I have a November 2017 build of a 2018 M2 LCI. That is important to note because what I have heard is that earlier builds were indeed more aggressive. I can't speak for that though. I've got the MPE and spend a lot of time with windows down. I can 100% confirm that there is a shorter overrun interval from my initial software version to now. Again, I can't speak for you if you have had a 2017 or 2016 MY with multiple updates. This is simply my experience. To the overrun debacle, it sounds like it was originally very aggressive, then patched out, then patched back in. So it probably depends what software version you had initially. I didn't check mine--again--because I really didn't believe there would be substantial changes on a software update.

Not sure what you meant by your second question (accusation?). But here's the thing. I was the first one to scoff at any possible DME related changes via dealership updates. Yet here we are. If we're going to be updating these cars with significant changes via software updates, there should 100% be "patch notes".

Only BMW can can confirm exactly what was done.

[boostm3]

Originally Posted by stefan

Not sure what you meant by your second question (accusation?). But here's the thing. I was the first one to scoff at any possible DME related changes via dealership updates. Yet here we are. If we're going to be updating these cars with significant changes via software updates, there should 100% be "patch notes".

Only BMW can can confirm exactly what was done.

Please dont take any of this as an 'accusation' of any kind.. Just trying to figure out why the impressions of the exhaust overruns vary on the same software version soas to have a better idea of what to expect when my turn comes, and to add to the general knowledge base.

[stefan]

Originally Posted by boostm3

Please dont take any of this as an 'accusation' of any kind.. Just trying to figure out why the impressions of the exhaust overruns vary on the same software version soas to have a better idea of what to expect when my turn comes, and to add to the general knowledge base.

Well if you're planning on updating regardless, then you don't really have an option. Seems like a lot of it is circumstantial. Probably also matters if you're getting that update at the time of run-in service as well.

[boostm3]

Originally Posted by stefan

Well if you're planning on updating regardless, then you don't really have an option. Seems like a lot of it is circumstantial. Probably also matters if you're getting that update at the time of run-in service as well.

I took Sept delivery with an August production date.. My run in service was in December and I dont think there was a software update, that is, my version does not match the one you and Dabozo have.. What is the significance of getting the update at the time of the run in service?

[stefan]

Originally Posted by boostm3

I took Sept delivery with an August production date.. My run in service was in December and I dont think there was a software update, that is, my version does not match the one you and Dabozo have.. What is the significance of getting the update at the time of the run in service?

None at all mine just happened to coincide with it. I needed the cluster recall at the same time and they decided to do all 6hr worth of updates.

[nothingman]

Originally Posted by stefan

...I can 100% confirm that there is a shorter overrun interval from my initial software version to now. Again, I can't speak for you if you have had a 2017 or 2016 MY with multiple updates. This is simply my experience. To the overrun debacle, it sounds like it was originally very aggressive, then patched out, then patched back in. So it probably depends what software version you had initially. I didn't check mine--again--because I really didn't believe there would be substantial changes on a software update.

As seen earlier in the thread, I had the N180921 update a couple of weeks ago but today is the first day I've really driven the car since. I definitely agree with Stefan that the car has less overrun or burbles now and seems quieter overall. I can't speak to the difference in power since I was running a BM3 stage 1 tune before the update and had to flash back to stock before taking it to the dealer, so I can't give an apples to apples comparison.

On the positive, the car does seem to shift smoother now and that was the primary benefit I was looking for from the update.

[Dabozo]

Agree 100% about having release notes. Wtf??!

H162051 original or second update:
All normal. Car sounded fantastic.

N180321 everything changed. Much quieter car.

3 or so weeks later-

N180921 car seems to feel normal again (overruns). But at this point things are getting a bit confusing.

Can't really speak for performance however since I don't really have a good 'butt dyno' baseline that I can vividly recall because car received that second update right after I took car out of winter hibernation. I feel like saying that it does feels a bit different (less lively) but can't with confidence.

[stefan]

Originally Posted by Dabozo

Agree 100% about having release notes. Wtf??!

H162051 original or second update:
All normal. Car sounded fantastic.

N180321 everything changed. Much quieter car.

3 or so weeks later-

N180921 car seems to feel normal again (overruns). But at this point things are getting a bit confusing.

Can't really speak for performance however since I don't really have a good 'butt dyno' baseline that I can vividly recall because car received that second update right after I took car out of winter hibernation. I feel like saying that it does feels a bit different (less lively) but can't with confidence.

Yeah. It's the boost profile that's changed. It's somehow been smoothed out, almost like timing gets pulled slightly early on to round off the peak delivery. I'm really not complaining because I find it more linear now but whatever.

I emailed BMW to ask if they would send me a list of things that changed.