[F87source]

Originally Posted by rtl32

Se we are literally playing with the ragged edge of the stage 1 HPFP and stock turbo limits. Love it!

No, TTE 460 which is a stage 1 turbo upgrade.

It has an upgraded compressor, and likely clipped turbine blades to allow more exhaust gas flow. I honestly think the PS1 might stack up very nicely against this turbo especially since tuning has improved alot and all the dyno plots of ps1 were back in the jb4 only days, and the ps1 is the same in that is has a larger compressor wheel and clipped turbine blades.

[rtl32]

Originally Posted by F87source

No, TTE 460 which is a stage 1 turbo upgrade.

It has an upgraded compressor, and likely clipped turbine blades to allow more exhaust gas flow. I honestly think the PS1 might stack up very nicely against this turbo especially since tuning has improved alot and all the dyno plots of ps1 were back in the jb4 only days, and the ps1 is the same in that is has a larger compressor wheel and clipped turbine blades.

Yes his experience on stage 1, but a lot of guys are probably going to run the E50 tune on their stock turbos and that's what I was referring to!

Might pick up a stage 1 now that they are so cheap/capable

[F87source]

Originally Posted by rtl32

Yes his experience on stage 1, but a lot of guys are probably going to run the E50 tune on their stock turbos and that's what I was referring to!

Might pick up a stage 1 now that they are so cheap/capable

Yeah it would really push a stock turbo hard.


If you get a stage 1 try the ps1, we have data on the dinan turbo (which vtt claims to sell to dinan), and we have info on the tte 460 the only one left is ps1. That would paint a really complete image on what stage 1 turbos offer and which one would be the "best".

[rtl32]

Rough day logging some Stg 2+ E30 pulls for Halim to set up for the trying the e50 beta

Fresh E43 in tank, 50 ambient, 10k on the plugs and 5k on the injectors and coils.

Felt like the car had a slight misfire if I WOT 4th at 2500 rpm. Almost like a shudder so I started a bit higher than that and focused on 3rd gear. Thought it was just too much lugging on the long MT gears.

Did these three runs:
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=61e8...90c636209a9e7c
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=61e8...0b43733cf00c8e
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=61e8...729b1ecdcf782a

Then:
Pulled to redline in 3rd shifted to 4th and massive drivetrain malfunction and loss of power around 5k rpm full load. Ugly set of codes, looks like I shut off injectors 4/5/6 and had some bad misfires and a superknock. See attached screenshot.

Unfortunately messed up initiating the log on the eventful pull. Of course..

Car was running on three cylinders, pulled right over and shut it off.

Restarted the car, started up perfectly on all 6 and drove home normally. Did one more 2-3 pull to see how it felt: felt fine, also log looks mysteriously fine??

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=61e8...729b1cc8548fea


Once I got home I cleaned my MAF and put a brand new set of plugs in gapped to .023.

Old plugs were between all over the place between .018 and .023, were originally gapped at .022 (I thought it was .020 when I was posting yesterday but I wrote .022 on the box, oops)

About to go out and log a few more pulls. This time stop and check each before doing another.. Definitely don't want that happening again. My first ever draivetrain malfunction almost 2 years into owning he car! Sucks trying to find the space/lack of traffic for a full 4th gear pull.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by rtl32

Rough day logging some pulls for Halim to set up for the e50 beta

Fresh E43 in tank, 50 ambient, 10k on the plugs and 5k on the injectors and coils.

Felt like the car had a slight misfire if I WOT 4th at 2500 rpm. Almost like a shudder so I started a bit higher than that and focused on 3rd gear. Thought it was just too much lugging on the long MT gears.

Did these three runs:
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=61e8...90c636209a9e7c
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=61e8...0b43733cf00c8e
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=61e8...729b1ecdcf782a

Then:
Pulled to redline in 3rd shifted to 4th and massive drivetrain malfunction and loss of power around 5k rpm full load. Ugly set of codes, looks like I shut off injectors 4/5/6 and had some bad misfires and a superknock. See attached screenshot.

Unfortunately messed up initiating the log on the eventful pull. Of course..

Car was running on three cylinders, pulled right over and shut it off.

Restarted the car, started up perfectly on all 6 and drove home normally. Did one more 2-3 pull to see how it felt: felt fine, also log looks mysteriously fine??

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=61e8...729b1cc8548fea


Once I got home I cleaned my MAF and put a brand new set of plugs in gapped to .023.

Old plugs were between all over the place between .018 and .023, were originally gapped at .022 (I thought it was .020 when I was posting yesterday but I wrote .022 on the box, oops)

About to go out and log a few more pulls. This time stop and check each before doing another.. Definitely don't want that happening again. My first ever draivetrain malfunction almost 2 years into owning he car! Sucks trying to find the space/lack of traffic for a full 4th gear pull.

That's not good, super knock is bad news and can crack pistons. Hopefully you get this sorted out, but I would not keep testing this ots map if you are getting super knock.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by F87source

That's not good, super knock is bad news and can crack pistons. Hopefully you get this sorted out, but I would not keep testing this ots map if you are getting super knock.

Yeah, not good!

I never had issues with the Stg 2+ E30 or Stg 2+ E50 maps, other than my HPFP working hard to keep up on E50!

[F87source]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Yeah, not good!

I never had issues with the Stg 2+ E30 or Stg 2+ E50 maps, other than my HPFP working hard to keep up on E50!

Glad to hear your car is fine. But I think part of the reason was it was a beta map test.


Also I personally would never run an ots map long term, because no two cars are the same, no two running conditions are the same, and I don't like how ots maps always have knock events and are tailored for peak power vs. track use and egt optimization with richer afrs and timing focus over boost.

Edit - I wanted to add that I am against ots maps because of my Subaru days where I'm conditioned to having tunes be absolutely perfect due to the fragility of the engines and inability for the ecu to adapt like BMW's. So with my transition to BMW's Ive kept the same mentality despite these modern BMW engines being thousands of times more durable and the ecus being able to adapt to nearly anything. So the risk of an ots maps causing issues long term is probably zero, but it will not be as safe/"good" for your engine over the life of it. Driveability will also be better as you can better define the power band to suit your mods, and you can even tune for lower chance of lspi by moving the load up the Rev range, you can tune for richer afrs and more timing focused for cooler egts etc, all of which is far superior than an ots map every will or can be. So I choose to always be a bit extra and always go for a custom tune - but it's not 100% life or death you must do it or you'll eventually get engine failures like it was on my sti. However do not neglect logging otherwise you will have a chance of engine failure on an ots map you always have to make sure it fits your car before long term use.

[rtl32]

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=61e8...0b43733cf00d3b

Much better with the new plugs. Heres a pic of the old ones in order from left to right cylinder 6-1

[rtl32]

Originally Posted by F87source

Glad to hear your car is fine. But I think part of the reason was it was a beta map test.

This was the Multimap Stage 2+ on map 1 E30, not the beta


And you're absolutely right. If I wasn't planning on selling and upgrading this summer I would have already paid for/started the custom tuning process for a flexfuel map. But dropping a grand on a tune for 5-6 more months isn't worth it to me right now

[F87source]

Originally Posted by rtl32

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=61e8...0b43733cf00d3b

Much better with the new plugs. Heres a pic of the old ones in order from left to right cylinder 6-1

Not as bad as I expected, it's actually not too bad. Insulators aren't super white nor blistered and or burnt black indicating they're over heated. No oily residues, no damage, no carbon build up. Overall they look ok to me.


Btw when you have a super knock event is check the plugs for damage.

Originally Posted by rtl32

This was the Multimap Stage 2+ on map 1 E30, not the beta


And you're absolutely right. If I wasn't planning on selling and upgrading this summer I would have already paid for/started the custom tuning process for a flexfuel map. But dropping a grand on a tune for 5-6 more months isn't worth it to me right now

Oh yeah you're getting an M2c, nice! Just make sure it's the ecu isn't locked if you want to tune right away.

[ZM2]

Just so everyone's clear on this, rtl32 wasn't running the Stg 2+ E50 beta map (which is working perfectly on my car), and was running the Multimap Stage 2+ which is even milder than the Stg 2+ E30 OTS map (this thread's namesake). I haven't had issues on either of those maps, either.

And, rtl32 issues went away after changing plugs that sound like they were gapped too tightly (or some other issue). Nothing to do with the tune since his car is working fine now.

Daleb sorry I've taken your thread sideways.

[designatedposter]

rtl32 how certain are you that you have e43? most of your logs show that your STFT is maxed out at 0.7. if you are using MORE ethanol than the tune target, i would have expected the STFT be >1.0.

your WGDC is like 99%.. maybe you have a boost leak which would explain the STFT

[rtl32]

Originally Posted by designatedposter

rtl32 how certain are you that you have e43? most of your logs show that your STFT is maxed out at 0.7. if you are using MORE ethanol than the tune target, i would have expected the STFT be >1.0.

your WGDC is like 99%.. maybe you have a boost leak which would explain the STFT

E42-43 reading is off of the BM3 flexfuel sensor, it's in the log.

I think you're right about the boost leak.

I think the whole thing was a combination of old/narrow plugs and a HPFP crash due to the increased fuel demand of going WOT in a higher gear after it got a break during the shift. I've always noticed 4th causes pressure crashes more readily than 3rd.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by rtl32

E42-43 reading is off of the BM3 flexfuel sensor, it's in the log.

I think you're right about the boost leak.

I think the whole thing was a combination of old/narrow plugs and a HPFP crash due to the increased fuel demand of going WOT in a higher gear after it got a break during the shift. I've always noticed 4th causes pressure crashes more readily than 3rd.

If you get to the point where you can send a solid Multimap/Stg 2+ E30 log to Halim and if he then provides you the Stg 2+ E50 beta to try, you’ll get the Dorch Stage 1 update that will increase flow to help with HPFP drop out.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by designatedposter

rtl32 how certain are you that you have e43? most of your logs show that your STFT is maxed out at 0.7. if you are using MORE ethanol than the tune target, i would have expected the STFT be >1.0.

your WGDC is like 99%.. maybe you have a boost leak which would explain the STFT

I dont think the boost leak would explain the positive stft, a boost leak would cause a negative stft.

The only situation that explains this is both an over shot in ethanol content and a boost leak. But what does his boost target and boost actual look like?


And even then the boost leak would drop stft if it was bad enough to max out wgdc so idk, I might take a look at the logs if I have time it does intrigue me.

[rtl32]

Originally Posted by F87source

I dont think the boost leak would explain the positive stft, a boost leak would cause a negative stft.

The only situation that explains this is both an over shot in ethanol content and a boost leak. But what does his boost target and boost actual look like?


And even then the boost leak would drop stft if it was bad enough to max out wgdc so idk, I might take a look at the logs if I have time it does intrigue me.

The STFT is negative (gradually declines to .7 mid pull every log) but my boost deviation is very low (2nd and 3rd log hold 20+ psi all the way well into 6k rpm, 1st log holds it into mid 5k) and WGDC stays in the 80s until going to the mid 90s at 5300rpm in every log.

Only thing that changed with the new plugs and clean MAF (4th log lower down) is massively improved timing and only holding 16lbs boost to 6k RPM. Somehow better timing brought my boost down, but it was also probably 20 degrees colder ambient (35f) when I took that log so maybe it was a load based change.

Even the EGTs don't indicate any massive changes between all of them. All starting between 900-1100 and ending around 1700.

So I am still wondering how E43 allowed such terrible timing and eventual superknock/ x3 injector shut down when I have literally never had a problem with this map since July. Maybe it has something to do with the version 1.2 that I just flashed last week, and higher fuel pressure (it was 24xx before this, now it is 29xx with the update) but if anything that should overtly IMPROVE fueling and with so much E help things. Could it possibly be oxygen sensors or a downpipe leak causing the trims to get weird, THINK it needs to pull fuel, and then run lean the engine lean because of the oxygen polluting the reading after the turbo?

Maybe pushing it over and over just got the plugs cooking (but they don't look bad?) and boom superknock occurred?

Or maybe I had a HPFP crash and because of their location further along the fuel rail cylinder 4-5-6 didn't get enough fuel and thats why they shut down (with 6 being the one experiencing the superknock)

Scared to push it again now..

Originally Posted by ZM2

If you get to the point where you can send a solid Multimap/Stg 2+ E30 log to Halim and if he then provides you the Stg 2+ E50 beta to try, you’ll get the Dorch Stage 1 update that will increase flow to help with HPFP drop out.

All of this is in the support portal waiting to see what he thinks of this first.

[Wheats1]

Sign me for a beta test for stage2 plus..
Dumb question... I forgot how to reach out to halim to send me tests maps.
Can someone help me with this?? It's been a while.
Thanks

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by Wheats1

Sign me for a beta test for stage2 plus..
Dumb question... I forgot how to reach out to halim to send me tests maps.
Can someone help me with this?? It's been a while.
Thanks

I'll send you a PM.

[Wheats1]

Got it. Thanks

[Daleb]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Just so everyone's clear on this, rtl32 wasn't running the Stg 2+ E50 beta map (which is working perfectly on my car), and was running the Multimap Stage 2+ which is even milder than the Stg 2+ E30 OTS map (this thread's namesake). I haven't had issues on either of those maps, either.

And, rtl32 issues went away after changing plugs that sound like they were gapped too tightly (or some other issue). Nothing to do with the tune since his car is working fine now.

Daleb sorry I've taken your thread sideways.

No worries Z. It’s in keeping with the thread as long as we see some 100-200 and other metrics

I’d be happy to test the map on stock turbo but won’t manage for another few weeks. If it’s still required I’ll reach out to Halim.

[ZM2]

Quick update. I think we found the limits of the TTE460. See the chart below.

The Stg 3 E50 beta map def adds good power b/n 3500-5600RPM, but falls off pretty quick above that as timing starts to crack up a little bit on E50. I think the tune would run just fine on a PS2 with E50, but I’d need to run E70+ to make 23psi work to redline smoothly, which would require LPFP upgrades and running a super high Emix all the time.

Of the three maps I like the top end curve of the Stg 2+ MM more (21psi with more timing), so after all this I may just run the Stg 2+ MM and take my Emix up to E60 or whatever the stock LPFP will handle.

Let me know what you guys think!

[F87source]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Quick update. I think we found the limits of the TTE460. See the chart below.

The Stg 3 E50 beta map def adds good power b/n 3500-5600RPM, but falls off pretty quick above that as timing starts to crack up a little bit on E50. I think the tune would run just fine on a PS2 with E50, but I’d need to run E70+ to make 23psi work to redline smoothly.

Of the three maps I like the top end curve of the Stg 2+ MM more (21psi), so after all this I may just run the Stg 2+ MM and take my Emix up to E60 or whatever the stock LPFP will take.

Let me know what you guys think!

impressive, but how high is your WGDC? This much boost can't be good for a turbo that small.