[///MPhatic]

These are incredible numbers! But I'm also interested as to why he told me that the torque would be limited without the fuel pump. I have not heard that before on stock turbo.

[///MPhatic]

Dyno Dynamics dyno though.

https://www.wgmotorworks.co.uk/

[Joebie]

over 20psi on stock turbo is that ok? BM3 stage 1 targets just 16psi on my car. Maybe fuel limited and the turbo has more in it or something? Idk what im talking about.

[ZM2]

Those are bhp numbers. BM3 Stg 2 93 will put down more power without a fuel pump.

[Joebie]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Those are bhp numbers. BM3 Stg 2 93 will put down more power without a fuel pump.

Oh, you right. I'm much less impressed now.

Said the car dynoed at 410hp on stock tune so thats like a 10% increase...

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Those are bhp numbers. BM3 Stg 2 93 will put down more power without a fuel pump.

Here are the responses about the fuel pump.

If it's true that BM3 makes more power, then why are they saying it needs a FP with just an intercooler?

[Joebie]

I've seen alot of ppl on stage 2 here on the forums having HPFP not meeting demand especially at higher revs, so i can believe that its needed for anything beyond a light stage 1 tune.

[AmuroRay]

As stated above, it's BHP (calculated engine power) and not wheel power. It would probably be closer to 400whp if I had to guess, which is what a good tune and fuel pump will give you.
You can just reverse their numbers to find the calculated wheel power:

M2 wheel power 340-350WHP (divided by) / 370-375 (Est Engine power) = 5-10%

So your numbers would look like:

Stock
Stage 1 -375whp
Stage 1+ - 367whp
Stage 2 - 381whp
Stage 2+ - 405whp

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

As stated above, it's BHP (calculated engine power) and not wheel power. It would probably be closer to 400whp if I had to guess, which is what a good tune and fuel pump will give you.
You can just reverse their numbers to find the calculated wheel power:

M2 wheel power 340-350WHP (divided by) / 370-375 (Est Engine power) = 5-10%

So your numbers would look like:

Stock
Stage 1 -375whp
Stage 1+ - 367whp
Stage 2 - 381whp
Stage 2+ - 405whp

As long as I don't need a different FP for my Stage 2 93 octane map then I'm happy.

[VGSON]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

As long as I don't need a different FP for my Stage 2 93 octane map then I'm happy.

Some of us on stage 2+ see HPFP readings drop below requested. Especially during cooler temps. When I spoke to my tuners, they stated our cars should have came with the Dorche Stage 1 pump or an equivalent to reach full limits of stock turbo. You only need a pump if you see the reading not reaching demands. Do logs occasionally and check. Again, its typically us running stage2+ with a dash of Ethanol.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by VGSON

Some of us on stage 2+ see HPFP readings drop below requested. Especially during cooler temps. When I spoke to my tuners, they stated our cars should have came with the Dorche Stage 1 pump or an equivalent to reach full limits of stock turbo. You only need a pump if you see the reading not reaching demands. Do logs occasionally and check. Again, its typically us running stage2+ with a dash of Ethanol.

I don't need the extra power, so I use 93 octane, but the 91 map. I'm a set-it, and forget-it type of guy, but if there is a chance of a fueling issue I can do the FP, just didn't think it was necessary for my application. Must be a big boost thing.

[3t3p]

Well I emailed MHD for more info on their advertised HPFP stage 2+ maps for 98 RON only for them to say will only make a slight difference in torque.

They need to get their advertising straight.

I was dead set on getting Dorch stage 1 and using their OTS map to get 445-450hp at the crank.

Now I'm looking at infinity designs air intake instead, cheaper and can fit myself lol.

[VGSON]

Originally Posted by 3t3p

Well I emailed MHD for more info on their advertised HPFP stage 2+ maps for 98 RON only for them to say will only make a slight difference in torque.

They need to get their advertising straight.

I was dead set on getting Dorch stage 1 and using their OTS map to get 445-450hp at the crank.

Now I'm looking at infinity designs air intake instead, cheaper and can fit myself lol.

Man, if it was me.....Get the fuel pump and custom tune with that $$....Spending $1k for an intake doesn't make sense to me. Air inlet would be better and cheaper than an intake. I went with CTS intake cause I have a pure750 turbo. Stock intake SHOULD be good to 500bhp... Just save for a little longer and do it right.

[ThreeStripes]

Agreed. HPFP and a custom tune is the way. Running blind by not reviewing data logs is not. Intakes for these cars are stupid imo, but many disagree.

I’m BM3 OTS S291 running 93 from Shell and I still see uneven timing (CSF IC).

I’m remedying this with a custom tune from Bend Calibration (and a Pure500 for good measure). They require a HPFP to support N55 cars for whatever that’s worth. This is the real set it and forget it option, but it ain’t cheap and without effort.

[samsamdar]

Lol my HPFP wasn't having it with even a stage 1 tune (albeit this was on garbage California 91). Not surprised he had to upgrade

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by ThreeStripes

Agreed. HPFP and a custom tune is the way. Running blind by not reviewing data logs is not. Intakes for these cars are stupid imo, but many disagree.

I’m BM3 OTS S291 running 93 from Shell and I still see uneven timing (CSF IC).

I’m remedying this with a custom tune from Bend Calibration (and a Pure500 for good measure). They require a HPFP to support N55 cars for whatever that’s worth. This is the real set it and forget it option, but it ain’t cheap and without effort.

Loads of cars out there running BM3 S293 on 93 without issue. I tend to agree with you that the way to go is logs in all hard driving weather/season conditions to see how any particular car is keeping up, then HPFP + custom tune if there are issues, but for most it's a waste of time/money.

It's not like we're hearing about BM3 S293 + 93 octane cars blowing engines, so most are going to forego any extra expense.

[ThreeStripes]

If the measure of success is simply not blowing the motor up, then that’s certainly an approach.

I don’t think it’s wise, and would point out that not blown up doesn’t equal in good order.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by ThreeStripes

If the measure of success is simply not blowing the motor up, then that’s certainly an approach.

I don’t think it’s wise, and would point out that not blown up doesn’t equal in good order.

Evidence is everything.

[ZM2]

BM3 Stg 2 OTS maps are the best bang for the buck out there. 400whp (460-470bhp) on 93, no HPFP needed unless your stock HPFP is failing.

Stg 2+ 93 that requires an HPFP might only net you 10whp more bc the stock turbo is octane limited at that power level. Same for custom tunes, they don’t make sense unless you’re running an Emix—the person that was originally referenced for this thread wasted their money.

Stg 2 93 - 400whp
Stg 2+ 93, HPFP - 410whp
Stg 2+ 93, HPFP, PS2 - 445whp, lots of low end lag
Stg 2+ E30/Multimap, HPFP, E40-50 - 445whp peak, no lag, power drop in upper RPMs
Stg 2+ E30/MM, HPFP, E50, Stg 1.5 turbo - 470whp to redline, no lag
Stg 2+ E30/MM, HPFP, E50, PS2 - 500whp, some lag on the bottom end

Add a Flexfuel sensor to the mix and the Stg 1.5 turbo setup that ThreeStripes is aiming for is the sweet spot for our cars.

[3t3p]

Originally Posted by ZM2

BM3 Stg 2 OTS maps are the best bang for the buck out there. 400whp (460-470bhp) on 93, no HPFP needed unless your stock HPFP is failing.

Stg 2+ 93 that requires an HPFP might only net you 10whp more bc the stock turbo is octane limited at that power level. Same for custom tunes, they don’t make sense unless you’re running an Emix—the person that was originally referenced for this thread wasted their money.

Stg 2 93 - 400whp
Stg 2+ 93, HPFP - 410whp
Stg 2+ 93, HPFP, PS2 - 445whp, lots of low end lag
Stg 2+ E30/Multimap, HPFP, E40-50 - 445whp peak, no lag, power drop in upper RPMs
Stg 2+ E30/MM, HPFP, E50, Stg 1.5 turbo - 470whp to redline, no lag
Stg 2+ E30/MM, HPFP, E50, PS2 - 500whp, some lag on the bottom end

Add a Flexfuel sensor to the mix and the Stg 1.5 turbo setup that ThreeStripes is aiming for is the sweet spot for our cars.

Wait what?! BM3 stage 2 93/98 is over 430bhp?!
When did this happen. Is it really that much more aggressive than MHD 2+?

So HPFP IS still worth it albeit with a custom tune?
What worries me is doing high speed runs with TC off to get the data!
OTS don't have to worry!

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by 3t3p

Wait what?! BM3 stage 2 93/98 is over 430bhp?!
When did this happen. Is it really that much more aggressive than MHD 2+?

So HPFP IS still worth it albeit with a custom tune?
What worries me is doing high speed runs with TC off to get the data!
OTS don't have to worry!

All the numbers I listed have been that way for a few years. Not sure why all this, including the lame custom tune mentioned in the original post, are news to folks.

[3t3p]

I thought BM3 stg 2 was same as MHD 2+ which is circa 420-430 bhp (I'm UK so it's always BHP).

You've said BM3 stage 2 is 30+ more hp than MHD, right?