[///MPhatic]

Just a quick question for those that might know.

Last year when I went to the Dragon (re: 318 curves in 11 miles, mostly 20-60 mph) I found that I could pretty much keep the car in 3rd gear most of the time with the odd downshift here and there for the really hard corners. I also don't remember feeling much lag.

This year I'm now BM3 Stage 2 91 octane with an OTS map (CSF intercooler/charge pipe/Fabspeed downpipe). I use the 91 map but run 93 exclusively.

Anyway, I found that I was actually in 4th gear most of the time on the same road, and at lower rpm's, which seemed to cause a lot more feeling of turbo lag.

I imagine it's because the car has more power/is faster and therefore I'm needing to be in a higher gear sooner, but because of that I'm at a lower rpm, which is making the car feel more laggy.

Has anyone else experienced what they would consider more lag on Stage 2 compared to stock?

[AmuroRay]

Post a log - could be a boost leak from when you installed the Charge Pipe/intercooler, or it could be what you say. Does the car feel responsive from a stop? Were you in Sport mode?

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Post a log - could be a boost leak from when you installed the Charge Pipe/intercooler, or it could be what you say. Does the car feel responsive from a stop? Were you in Sport mode?

I don't even know how to take a log, so I guess I'll learn that and get back to you.

It feels responsive, and faster for sure.

Sport mode, yes.

It was a situation where I wanted to leave the car in gear, so I was off-throttle and then back on at 2,000, 2,500, etc, over and over. Same as last year, I just didn't notice the laggy feeling as much.

[AmuroRay]

Does it feel the same in the same gear - IE 3rd gear at 2000rpm?

Could be just you using the higher gear as you mentioned.

[ZM2]

I had something similar back in the day. Went away when I installed the MST V2 turbo inlet, Turbosmart BOV and Evo 3 IC (all at the same time).

IDK which of those items contributed the most, but guessing it was the turbo inlet.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by ZM2

I had something similar back in the day. Went away when I installed the MST V2 turbo inlet, Turbosmart BOV and Evo 3 IC (all at the same time).

IDK which of those items contributed the most, but guessing it was the turbo inlet.

Inlet and Dv for me

[///393]

This is just called being in 4th gear at 2000rpm.

The engine feels more responsive in that type of driving higher in the power band. Downshift. 4th gear 2000-2500 is not where I’d be running the snake. It’s called spirited driving for a reason. Car revs to 7. Let it eat.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Does it feel the same in the same gear - IE 3rd gear at 2000rpm?

Could be just you using the higher gear as you mentioned.

Car feels stronger, so I was using a higher gear. I think if I had left it in 3rd I would have been on the limiter, so I chose 4th.

Next year I'll have the MST inlet and TS valve. I'll do some testing before that as well.

[designatedposter]

in bm3 app, "learned adaptations reset", "reset all". i've realized that the car gets lazy when it adapts to daily driving.

you can try this at home. do the adaptation reset, then go for a drive.

[atlas]

I'm no tuner but I assume it's entirely possible that because the stage 2 map makes more power up top, that it decreases the amount of boost/power lower in the rev range.

But otherwise yes like the poster above, what do you really expect at 2000rpm?

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by designatedposter

in bm3 app, "learned adaptations reset", "reset all". i've realized that the car gets lazy when it adapts to daily driving.

you can try this at home. do the adaptation reset, then go for a drive.

I didn't think this applied to the 6MT. Thanks for the tip. Should be good for a while after my Dragon run. hahaha

Originally Posted by atlas

I'm no tuner but I assume it's entirely possible that because the stage 2 map makes more power up top, that it decreases the amount of boost/power lower in the rev range.

Actually it's supposed to give more boost earlier, and I can verify that it does, as on throttle application and immediate lift there is a lot more difference than there was stock.

Originally Posted by atlas

But otherwise yes like the poster above, what do you really expect at 2000rpm?

I wasn't driving constantly at 2,000 rpm WOT, I was just closer to 2/3/4 instead of 4/5/6 and though it was strange. The only thing I can figure is that I was carrying more speed because of the increased power which necessitated me being in 4th instead of 3rd. I tried 3rd and started hitting the limiter.

I guess I could be misremembering how much time I spent in 4th gear last year, but that'd even be worse considering I don't remember any lag issues then.

[AdventureNoodle]

I noticed a significant amount of lag introduced once I installed the CSF intercooler. Pretty sure it's cause it's just so massive.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by AdventureNoodle

I noticed a significant amount of lag introduced once I installed the CSF intercooler. Pretty sure it's cause it's just so massive.

Interesting.

I don't know how many people I've told (a lot), but my car is no more fun with more power. I'm considering returning it stock.

[David.m]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

Interesting.

I don't know how many people I've told (a lot), but my car is no more fun with more power. I'm considering returning it stock.

I think what Adventurenoodle said is likely the case, the big CSF IC. Also on twisty roads, especially if you're letting revs drop, you'll be accelerating out of hairpins from off-boost, this will imo highlight any lag problem. You might just need to shift up/down a little more, I try not to go 3/4-full throttle below say 2500, better throttle response but I think it's also less load/better for engine health.

I have a Wagner Evo2 Comp and couldn't detect any increased lag compared with the stock intercooler even initially on stock tune. I believe IAT's run slightly higher compared to the CSF but are not an issue even with the hardest of street driving. I'm very happy with my custom stage 2 tune (incl custom throttle mapping & the 6MT load drop fix).

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by David.m

I think what Adventurenoodle said is likely the case, the big CSF IC. Also on twisty roads, especially if you're letting revs drop, you'll be accelerating out of hairpins from off-boost, this will imo highlight any lag problem. You might just need to shift up/down a little more, I try not to go 3/4-full throttle below say 2500, better throttle response but I think it's also less load/better for engine health.

I have a Wagner Evo2 Comp and couldn't detect any increased lag compared with the stock intercooler even initially on stock tune. I believe IAT's run slightly higher compared to the CSF but are not an issue even with the hardest of street driving. I'm very happy with my custom stage 2 tune (incl custom throttle mapping & the 6MT load drop fix).

I read through the first 5,000 pages of the intercooler thread and just said screw it, I'll just buy what I'm told to buy for Stage 2 93, so I ended up with the MASSIVE and HEAVY CSF. Wish it was smaller and lighter now...

At some point I'd like to have a custom tune, once I get my inlet and BOV, but it's the same can of worms. I think there are 11ty billion threads fighting about those as well.

[///393]

Monitor IATs and you may change your tune. That massive, heavy CSF intercooler produces consistently low IATs and these cars need all the help they can get.

Out of boost without the help of the CSF intercooler IATs get insanely high, and quick.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by wilson kop

Monitor IATs and you may change your tune. That massive, heavy CSF intercooler produces consistently low IATs and these cars need all the help they can get.

Out of boost without the help of the CSF intercooler IATs get insanely high, and quick.

I'm sure it does a good job, and I don't think IAT's really mean anything for a non-raced car.

My motivation in going Stage 2 was to pick up anything BMW may have left on the table for free without sacrificing drivability and reliability. To that end I've certainly made the car faster, and probably not sacrificed any reliability, but I've also made it a bit less enjoyable to drive.

I'm hoping the MST inlet and Turbosmart BOV will help.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

I'm sure it does a good job, and I don't think IAT's really mean anything for a non-raced car.

My motivation in going Stage 2 was to pick up anything BMW may have left on the table for free without sacrificing drivability and reliability. To that end I've certainly made the car faster, and probably not sacrificed any reliability, but I've also made it a bit less enjoyable to drive.

I'm hoping the MST inlet and Turbosmart BOV will help.

The lower IATs means your making the power you should be consistently, raced or not.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

The lower IATs means your making the power you should be consistently, raced or not.

When that power is actually used, and at the expense of some drivability (which I wasn't aware of). My car is a fairweather friend, not a whipping boy.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

When that power is actually used, and at the expense of some drivability (which I wasn't aware of). My car is a fairweather friend, not a whipping boy.

The intercooler shouldn’t cause any adverse effects at all. If there were, you could have a boost leak causing Lag.

Trust me, I live in Florida with 90 ambients, and you MIGHT get a pull with full power before it cuts off.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

The intercooler shouldn’t cause any adverse effects at all. If there were, you could have a boost leak causing Lag.

Interesting that the poster above noticed increased lag with the larger intercooler.

I don't think I have any leaks, car runs great, it's just not as responsive as it was when it was stock.

[David.m]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

The intercooler shouldn’t cause any adverse effects at all. If there were, you could have a boost leak causing Lag.

Any factual data to support this? Goes against the general & accepted principle that 1 compromise of a bigger IC is increased throttle lag (though the Wagner Evo3 seems to go against that, maybe better engineered).