[IB M]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

In Australia, we pay multiple taxes starting from import duty, customs and excise, luxury car tax (LCT @ 33% of car value above ~$80k), goods and services tax (GST @10% of everything), and stamp duty (SD @ between 4% and 11% of total cost) and registration which is a form of road tax on top of all that.

On a M2CS fully optioned, you'll pay in excess of $60k in taxes on a car now costing $170k+.

What's criminal about that is the fact that almost none of this money/taxes levied is used on fixing the roads as it should be.

What's even more criminal is that, at each iteration, you are paying tax on tax on tax. You pay your 33% LCT and then have to pay GST (VAT in EU) on the LCT you've already paid so all of a sudden your 33% LCT is now equivalent to over 40%. Then they lump you with Stamp Duty of (in my case) 7% on the GST and the LCT.

And then after you've paid almost 40% in overall taxes, you put fuel in the car @$1.50 per litre which has almost 90¢ worth of taxes in it (for a country that produces 100% of its petroleum products).

And if you decide to drive the car at 3Km/h over the speed limit (of 50Km/h in most areas) then you pay another $489 for the privilege of having a car that has cost you $175k already.

Gotta love democracy

November 3rd peeps - green new deal will take the US this way - just say no

[Davil]

Originally Posted by ND40oz

They would say the same thing for the amount of property tax we pay in parts of the US on purchasing a house.

Well here in Australia I just paid more than the price of a brand new M2C in stamp duty when buying a house. That's just an infuriating tax!

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by Davil

Well here in Australia I just paid more than the price of a brand new M2C in stamp duty when buying a house. That's just an infuriating tax!

You should have bought a bigger house and paid a M2CS for stamp duty lol

Just joking, I know exactly where you're coming from

[ND40oz]

Originally Posted by Davil

Well here in Australia I just paid more than the price of a brand new M2C in stamp duty when buying a house. That's just an infuriating tax!

In the states we just pay a percentage of the current market value of the house for the rest of our lives. I'd love for it to be a one time tax at the time of purchase type thing like here in Germany.

[Davil]

Originally Posted by ND40oz

In the states we just pay a percentage of the current market value of the house for the rest of our lives. I'd love for it to be a one time tax at the time of purchase type thing like here in Germany.

Ah. Yes I remember this when I was in New Jersey, a friend was telling me. It's not everywhere though is it?

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by ND40oz

In the states we just pay a percentage of the current market value of the house for the rest of our lives. I'd love for it to be a one time tax at the time of purchase type thing like here in Germany.

In Australia, depending on which State or Territory we live in, we pay between 4% and 7% of purchase price of a house in a State tax called stamp duty when we buy a house.

Then we pay (local government) Council rates annually as a small percentage of the value of the house (usually less than 1% per annum).

Additionally, for any real estate assets (not including the house you own and live in), we pay State Land Tax annually but also pay Capital Gains Tax when you sell any of those extra assets (min of 25% - max 50% of profits).

I read somewhere, Australia is apparently one of the highest taxes countries in the OECD. But, on the positive side, we enjoy Universal health cover, safer suburbs and better roads with relative wages being more generous than many others.

[Hedoniste]

29 brand new and lightly mileage CS are sitting @ dealerships in Switzerland. 70% of the cars are probably sold (« officially » 100 cars were scheduled).

[Franzino]

Was looking on the biggest German used car site (Mobile.de). I was amazed to see more then 130x M2 CS for sale on this site. Yes; more then 130 cars for a "limited edition" BMW. Some of the prices are not that crazy and lower then the initial price for a new car: https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/s...r=false&vc=Car

Me personally I like this car for 82.500euro (no; I have no plans in buying it....at the moment )

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Franzino

Was looking on the biggest German used car site (Mobile.de). I was amazed to see more then 130x M2 CS for sale on this site. Yes; more then 130 cars for a "limited edition" BMW. Some of the prices are not that crazy and lower then the initial price for a new car: https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/s...r=false&vc=Car

160 and counting: see here.

I said it before and I'll say it again:

Originally Posted by Artemis

The coin flippers breed is hoping for a frenzy, which is not gonna happen (just like it didn't happen for the M4 GTS, M4 CS and M3 CS).

[Franzino]

Originally Posted by Artemis

160 and counting: see here.

I said it before and I'll say it again:

Sorry; did not see the other thread that already existed

[veenut28]

Originally Posted by Davil

Ah. Yes I remember this when I was in New Jersey, a friend was telling me. It's not everywhere though is it?

Property tax is collected, AFAIK, in every state in the US. In some states it's negligible but in places like NY, NJ or CA it can be brutal.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by Artemis

160 and counting: see here.

147 current listings - highest €150k - lowest €82k - I imagine you could get a lot more grit for €150k than M2 CS

When coin flipping like this, more often than not, you'll get "tail";

tail between the legs

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

147 current listings

162 results here, but it includes 1 M2C, so that's 161 M2 CS already put up for sale or leasing as we speak on that website.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by Artemis

162 results here, but it includes 1 M2C, so that's 161 M2 CS already put up for sale or leasing as we speak on that website.

I might have used a different filter; I selected M2 then narrowed it to CS

Makes sense for it to include M2C

Whether 147 or 161, it's going to be interesting to see how many will ever sell at anything over recommended prices, if any.

I mean, €150k is surely a little over the top!!

[Hedoniste]

Still 26 for sale in Switzerland. There is only one in blue (and it is more expensive than the others even with 2000kms on the clock... 115KCH which is 110KEUR. It is a bit optimistic to me).

[Megator]

Originally Posted by robertm

That seems like a criminal amount of tax to someone looking in from the outside.

I guess the citizens of ea country voted for the politicians that created these laws so that's what folks want. Curious, what happens to that windfall of wealth generated from all these seemingly exorbitant taxes?

In NL which has one of the highest/strictest "eco" taxes in the EU the tax started as a "luxury goods" tax and over 30 years morphed to an eco tax.

Its more of a way to get extra cash for the government than really to incentivise eco cars.

I say this as the system was changed 10 years ago or so to be based on CO2 production (a marginalized tax bracket system exists that calcs how much eco tax one pays per car per engine depending on CO2 production).

At the time electric cars were exempt from this tax (and some other very niche tax loopholes in the dutch tax system).

Now slowly electric cars are also being subjected to this tax and others... ofc, the rates are much lower than ICE cars.

The taxes just go into the general pot and help close the budget. Taxes rates as a whole are about the same in NL and the US. We do have a pretty excellent road network though and good public transport and biking options to! This is not a country where one needs a car (even less with Corona now). I can get 24h delivery from pretty much any webshop or private person for example. So a car really is seen as a luxury and not a need.

BTW one thing we all forget is that we don't usually pay for our more murky negative externalities. Whether you like it or not your and my car contribute to polution. From the tons of brake and tire dust that line highways and end up in aquafers to the green house gasses and fine particulates produced that end up in the air and give people respitory issues. This is what an "eco" tax aims to reduce.

In America I would likely get sued if I directly caused you to ingest some dirty oil or some other toxic part of the car, but do it slowly and diffusely and no one batts an eyelid.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

I mean, €150k is surely a little over the top!!

Those of €150K are full option MSRP (including M-CCB) M2 CS cars in The Netherlands because of Dutch taxes. No markup. See post #11.

Other European countries levy taxes too, but not to the extent as in The Netherlands. Next country evolving into the Dutch taxes direction: France.

But in those M2 CS listings there are effectively several cars with a markup. If those coin-flippers want to get rid of their "short-term financial investment" soon, they'll need a reality check and lower the price. Their idea to make a quick buck with the M2 CS was a mistake, though a forseeable one (cf. M4 GTS, M4 CS and M3 CS resale prices). They'd better keep the car, enjoy it to bits and not cry over spilt milk.

[AlpsRider]

I inquired about a hockenheim M2CS listed with pics in Santa Fe. It is indeed on the lot and for sale at $93k+
I was surprised to see one just sitting on the lot. I think I'll hold on to my M2C at $58k, add 763 wheels, coilovers and call it a day.

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

I inquired about a hockenheim M2CS listed with pics in Santa Fe. It is indeed on the lot and for sale at $93k+
I was surprised to see one just sitting on the lot. I think I'll hold on to my M2C at $58k, add 763 wheels, coilovers and call it a day.

Can't go wrong doing that. Also helps justifying a high end suspension splurge. Treat yoself

[Pol]

In the meantime, I have been enjoying the best M2 ever made since August and 5500km. I look with pleasure at the exorbitant prices that are supposedly asked for the CS. The negotiated price I gave for my well-equipped CS without carboceramic brakes is/was a very good price in my opinion. And I don't care what the resale price of the CS will be in the future either. 4 years of M2 OG and a good acquisition price was enough for me to choose the best and last M2 in this configuration.
I would say "buy an M2 CS, have fun and enjoy it".
The smile on your face will be worth more than a few K euros / dollars more.