[Iron Man]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

No need. They are not only lurking, they predicted the reaction before the announcement and they probably guess within a couple percent of what the poll indicates. They also know a couple of things more: 1) The emotional responses that feed this poll will subside by the time we actually go make our next car purchase. 2) They know that if BMW is the car you want to drive otherwise, this change is not going to affect the ultimate decision for most buyers since the competitions' plans free maintenance plans are even worse than BMW's new plan. 3) They have predicted how many buyers will actually leave the brand vs how much money they will save and decided to move forward with the decision based on that analysis. These guys and gals know what they are doing. As a business person I really admire their growth from a niche enthusiast player in the 80s to an amazing global brand today. Its incredibly hard to do what they have done and it isn't luck. So, send the poll results. They are already off working on their next decision.

Don't think for a minute that their previous success makes them infallible in the decision making department. Ever hear of a company named Coke that was hugely successful and decided to change the formula on their #1 product (not exactly comparable, but you get the point)?

Their success was based on making the "Ultimate Driving Machine", and they have been chipping away at that for a few years now. Their cars are more bloated, they will be selling FWD vehicles now, their suspensions have been softened, electric steering, whoring out the M badge, etc. At some point the competitive edge they had that gave them all the success goes away, making a BMW no different than any other luxury marque.

[MalibuBimmer]

Of course for those of us with the bigger BMWs, X5, 5, 6 & 7 series, the biggest expense during early ownership is tire replacement. Which comes a lot sooner and a lot more often than for other cars. Or so it seems.

[miiipilot]

Originally Posted by Mo@BMW

To put things into perspective,

Jaguar has a 5 year, 60,000 Free maintenance program.
Volvo has a 3 Year/36,000 free maintenance program.
VW has(had?) a 3 year/36,000 free maintenance program.
Toyota has a 2 Year/25,000 free maintenance program.

The biggest factors in BMW's maintenance plan, FOR ME, are brakes, clutch and belts. Do the others have it included? The ATS-V I was looking at does NOT have these. Cabin air filters, wiper blades, Oil changes are NON-factors to me. But the others are huge factors.

To the people saying, blah blah 50,000 car and you can't pay for the maintenance should go buy a corolla. You're right when it comes to those little things. But brakes, clutch and belts are a little different story. Can't pay versus Don't want to pay are 2 different things.

I do have a toyota and laughed when the sales guy touted the "2yr/Free maintenance" plan. WOW, thanks for the 2 free oil changes (had it for 16 months) SO glad it has free maintenance. What value. But I'll take it!

[im4su2]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

I get that people are pissed at this change. I mean, after all, who wants a take away. But, moving away from BMW because of this change is pretty dramatic.

This change adds up to maybe one oil change and some wiper blades. From a dollar and cents perspective, not reason enough to switch brands. If its the principle of the thing that is driving the negative comments, then I get that. When a company does something I don't like, I've been known to vote with my feet.

I have to wonder though, are the people hating on BMW about this change business people too? BMW is a business. They have an obligation to their shareholders to maximize profits. They offered free maintenance a few years ago and it has been a huge success. As someone mentioned, they are selling cars in record numbers. Someone at BMW took the time to look at the free service programs offered by BMW competition and realized they don't have to offer 4 years anymore. From a pure business perspective, any company that isn't comparing to the competition and adjusting their pricing and terms accordingly is not paying attention, period.

So, go ahead and be pissed. But before you vote with your feet, please note that very few cars come with a free maintenance program longer than 3 years. If you pick one that does, then you get to choose between certain Cadillac, Hyundai and Kia models. BMW is betting on the fact that you won't do that. I'll go out on a limb and bet you won't either. For those that do leave, BMW knows there are 10 more coming on board. They also know you will be back.

Agree, and one factor to consider that no one is mentioning, is the dealerships' role in this decision. Keep in mind the dealerships make money on the "zero cost" maintenance items no matter what, because they chargeback the manufacturer. So this policy can very well be indicative that dealers were taking advantage of situations, especially if there was borderline necessity, by overusing, and therefore overcharging, back to BMW.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

1. This is true of all of the premium euro brands.

2. Part of the reason they sell in record numbers is because of the real and perceived value that the maintenance plan offers. When a first time owner faces that first brake job that cost over $1,500 they will run back to their Accord. This is not how you keep the new customer that just dipped their toe into the premium market. Everyone doesn't make $300K per year.

Cheers-mk

I really think the leasing aspect of the Euro-brand marketplace has most to do with sales increases. The maintenance is not an extra cost during the lease. You can lease a 3-series for the montly payment on an accord, which is why the sales growth is occuring IMO.

[Tom (Atl)]

Not good news. I'm not going to say I'll never buy a bmw again, but I'll be significantly less likely to do so starting with the 2017 models.

Brakes have been sub par on 2 of the cars I've bought. So if I have to do pads and rotors all around, that's about 2k extra in cost.
Not to mention the peace of mind of not having to worry.
And the constantly increasing prices of BMWs, even though the Euro is at a multi year low with the USD.
And don't forget they are changing the discount on euro delivery from 7% to 5%.

So the euro is 35% stronger, and the same car purchased in 2017 will probably cost me 5k more total than it did last year.

I'm likely to stay with Porsche and do their ED program going forward. Even though it has no discount, their GT cars hold value better than M cars.

Sorry but an M4 isn't worth 80k to me. They won't sell as many.
Now I see why the smart money is flowing towards collectible M cars. At least with those you expect to pay these costs going in.

I voted 'most likely will'.

[doublevanosrc]

Originally Posted by Mr.Metak2you

Your statement is true, but really isn't the point. If you want brand loyalty the wipers are something BMW shouldn't sweat over. Or brake pads for that matter. It's like taking the bagels/donuts away from your employee lounge at work that been there every morning for the last 2 decades then you decide, you employees, you can afford your own morning pastry. Little things like that have an enormous psychological effect and destroys loyalty. Not worth it in my opinion. Studies show you will probably lose money in the long run having to recruit, retrain and loss of efficiency as a result. With BMW, there is no doubt in my mind they WILL lose customers as a result.

Well put sir let me guess Business major?

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by pimp4cheddar

You are not the majority my friend... It's a HUGE selling point.

An oil change for any other car costs less than $50 for full synthetic (fun fact, if you supply your own oil and filter to a shop because you don't feel like doing it yourself, they'll just charge labor...which for my last car was $10). Not everyone is going out and buying 911's and if you did want a maintenance plan, you can purchase one with the other manufacturers, BMW just gave theirs for free. You still get a free one, it just doesn't cover as much and will be slightly shorter.

People in this thread and just bitching since they want their cake and eat it too. They all act like other manufacturers offer as generous a free maintenance package so they can just go elsewhere for free maintenance, but you can't.

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by Iron Man

Don't think for a minute that their previous success makes them infallible in the decision making department. Ever hear of a company named Coke that was hugely successful and decided to change the formula on their #1 product (not exactly comparable, but you get the point)?

Their success was based on making the "Ultimate Driving Machine", and they have been chipping away at that for a few years now. Their cars are more bloated, they will be selling FWD vehicles now, their suspensions have been softened, electric steering, whoring out the M badge, etc. At some point the competitive edge they had that gave them all the success goes away, making a BMW no different than any other luxury marque.

I do get the point. That was a big lesson for Coke and they recovered nicely. From what I've read the big lesson they learned is their customers own the brand, not them. They have been keeping that in mind ever since. Great lesson learned.

BMW is not infallible. If this backfires they will make adjustments. What BMW has done with this maintenance change is not comparable. Coke replaced a loved product with a new one. BMW's physical product is not changing. This maintenance policy change that adds up way less than 1% of the total cost of ownership of the car;M owners results may be different.

BMW has always gone their own way. They are not know for seeking customer input. They figure out what they want to do and they do it, regardless of feedback. If they are wrong on this maintenance change, they will adjust. I'm saying they did not go into this blindly. They knew there would be push back. If that push back affects unit sales, they will adjust. Since their competition does not offer a better deal, the reality is they probably won't have to do that.

[tturedraider]

deleted because I misread the original post.

[IndotagSwizz]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

I'm sorry, but I don't believe this. BMW has a wide range of extended warranties that range from mirroring the CPO coverage to covering virtually everything for as long as seven years. Dealers love to sell these highly profitable warranties. If your statement is true then you have the SINGLE MOST STUPID dealer in the United States.

This is not only true from any dealership, I also called BMWNA and this was confirmed by them. They do sell plenty of extended warranty packages but can only be purchased before hitting the 50k after that BMW only offers a warranty that only covers the engine and transmission.
You can however get other 3rd party warranty coverage but I wouldn't even dare, already did plenty of research there as well...

[ando]

Generally speaking it is not a big deal as the maintenance plan is low on my critical to quality issues for purchase decisions for performance cars. However for SUVs it is nice to have peace of mind on the maintenance plan and to have the full scope of them covering everything. I don't abuse the system and my dealer is very good at taking care of my car(s). I wouldn't hate if we were offered full scope but reduce the time to three instead of four.

[fazman]

Originally Posted by flyga3

Bummer. Wonder what will happen to lease residual values now that those things will need to be replaced by the user. Also what happens if leasing 3yr and 15K miles per year (45K total)?? What will be the minimal pad thickness prior to lease end? Looks like a beefed up revenue stream for dealers.

Oh and strike spark plugs off the list. They aren't going out before 36K. I have yet to have a BMW before 75K need new plugs.

n54's are scheduled at 45k and tuned n54's are about 25k miles

[mPlasticDesign]

Everyone in this thread saying "don't be so cheap," "go buy a Corolla," "I'm leasing, what do I care beyond 36k?" or calling this maintenane program "FREE," I will say it one more time, YOU HAVE ALREADY PAID FOR IT! It's not "free." You really think BMW is going to give you anything for free?

I am surprised at how many people actually lease too. There is a reason that financial advisers like Clark Howard and Dave Ramsey call it a "Flease!" A small percentage of BMW leases are business right-offs, so the "if you can't afford wipers go buy something cheaper" argument is glaring right back at all the leased BMW drivers. If you don't have the money to buy the car with cash then you probably can't afford it either. Nobody ever got rich by saying I'm OK with getting less for my money and that is exactly what is happening in 2017.

A fool and his money are soon parted.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by IndotagSwizz

This is not only true from any dealership, I also called BMWNA and this was confirmed by them. They do sell plenty of extended warranty packages but can only be purchased before hitting the 50k after that BMW only offers a warranty that only covers the engine and transmission.
You can however get other 3rd party warranty coverage but I wouldn't even dare, already did plenty of research there as well...

I apologize. You are correct. I read your post more than once, but I managed to misread it. I read it to say they didn't offer warranties longer than 50k. Sorry about that.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Mr.Metak2you

Everyone in this thread saying "don't be so cheap," "go buy a Corolla," "I'm leasing, what do I care beyond 36k?" or calling this maintenane program "FREE," I will say it one more time, YOU HAVE ALREADY PAID FOR IT! It's not "free." You really think BMW is going to give you anything for free?

I am surprised at how many people actually lease too. There is a reason that financial advisers like Clark Howard and Dave Ramsey call it a "Flease!" A small percentage of BMW leases are business right-offs, so the "if you can't afford wipers go buy something cheaper" argument is glaring right back at all the leased BMW drivers. If you don't have the money to buy the car with cash then you probably can't afford it either. Nobody ever got rich by saying I'm OK with getting less for my money and that is exactly what is happening in 2017.

A fool and his money are soon parted.

I could afford to buy one outright, not all of us want to keep a car until the wheels fall off.

I did that with my first car and was all onboard with owning a car until the wheels fall off. I'd rather lease and not deal with the end of life slew of unexpected repairs and accidents.

It all depends on your preference. Besides, Dave Ramsey is the guy who famously said this:

Saving only $100 per month from age 25 to age 65 at 12% growth = $1,176,000. Everyone should retire a millionaire!

Ahh yes 12% growth, so simple!

[tex2670]

Originally Posted by 08njSTEP

Maybe they found out that their cars start accumulating serious repair costs after 36mi and instead of building a better car they can just unload the cost onto the purchaser.

These are routine maintenance items. Oil change and filter costs don't change in the 4th year of ownership.

[tex2670]

Originally Posted by Mr.Metak2you

Your statement is true, but really isn't the point. If you want brand loyalty the wipers are something BMW shouldn't sweat over. Or brake pads for that matter. It's like taking the bagels/donuts away from your employee lounge at work that been there every morning for the last 2 decades then you decide, you employees, you can afford your own morning pastry. Little things like that have an enormous psychological effect and destroys loyalty. Not worth it in my opinion. Studies show you will probably lose money in the long run having to recruit, retrain and loss of efficiency as a result. With BMW, there is no doubt in my mind they WILL lose customers as a result.

Like all the customers that they were going to lose when the F30 dumbed down the steering feel and handling characteristics? I have no doubt BMW made a lot of educated projections as to what, if any, affect this would have on their sales; I highly doubt some bean counter came up with this idea and that was the end of the analysis.

[PushingRedline]

My lease will be up in 2017 and this really makes me want to consider other companies. Worry free maintenance was the thing that put BMW over the others for me...now it's a level playing field. Also, I kept telling my family and friends..."you should get a BMW...you only pay for tires and gas!". Can't say that now so won't bother even bringing it up.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by Mr.Metak2you

Everyone in this thread saying "don't be so cheap," "go buy a Corolla," "I'm leasing, what do I care beyond 36k?" or calling this maintenane program "FREE," I will say it one more time, YOU HAVE ALREADY PAID FOR IT! It's not "free." You really think BMW is going to give you anything for free?

I am surprised at how many people actually lease too. There is a reason that financial advisers like Clark Howard and Dave Ramsey call it a "Flease!" A small percentage of BMW leases are business right-offs, so the "if you can't afford wipers go buy something cheaper" argument is glaring right back at all the leased BMW drivers. If you don't have the money to buy the car with cash then you probably can't afford it either. Nobody ever got rich by saying I'm OK with getting less for my money and that is exactly what is happening in 2017.

A fool and his money are soon parted.

I used to be a pretty strong believer in Larry Burkett and Dave Ramsey financial perspectives. I still lean their direction, but on the leasing issue I've changed my view. I think a valid case can be made for leasing.

If we're really going to follow their philosophy then we're not going to be buying new cars and certainly not BMWs. We're going to buy 2 -3 year old Camrys and Accords or Siennas and Odysseys.

Originally Posted by fecurtis

I could afford to buy one outright, not all of us want to keep a car until the wheels fall off.

I did that with my first car and was all onboard with owning a car until the wheels fall off. I'd rather lease and not deal with the end of life slew of unexpected repairs and accidents.

It all depends on your preference. Besides, Dave Ramsey is the guy who famously said this:



Ahh yes 12% growth, so simple!

+1, on both counts.

[tex2670]

Originally Posted by vinny84

No big deal here.

If you can't afford wiper blades or brakes for a BMW then your financial priorities are not in sync.

I'm sure they will offer a service plan for people who finance a BMW and who will keep more than 3 years.

And isn't this the joke of it all??? Let's put this thread parallel to one of the "Should I buy the extended maintenance/service plan for $X,000?" People are already shelling out pre-paid for service beyond the 4/50,000; but now people are going to go apeshit because they might have to tack on an extra year to that?

All the "enthusiasts" here and on other BMW forums chastise anyone that doesn't option out their BMW the proper way; but BMW trims back the maintenance program, and they are done with the brand? That was the thing holding everyone to the BMW brand--a year of maintenance and free wiperblades and brake pads??? Cry me a river....

I wish there was as much outrage about BMW making HID/LED headlights, back up cameras, blind spot monitoring, fully functional Bluetooth, etc., extra cost options. Again, the enthusiast crowd jumps down people's throats when this is raised--"That's not why you buy a BMW!" "Go buy an Accord with all those things if that's what's important!"

Is it customer unfriendly? Absolutely. But that's really about it....

I think Volvos have a pretty comprehensive service program.....

/ENDRANT

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by PushingRedline

My lease will be up in 2017 and this really makes me want to consider other companies. Worry free maintenance was the thing that put BMW over the others for me...now it's a level playing field. Also, I kept telling my family and friends..."you should get a BMW...you only pay for tires and gas!". Can't say that now so won't bother even bringing it up.

Is your lease for more than 36k miles? Have you needed a brake job during your lease terms? How many other brands that are direct competitors of BMW offer a more extensive maintenance plan? How many have lease terms that are better than BMWFS?