[IB M]

Originally Posted by Poochie

I guess that's an attempted shot against Porsche but by that logic, The Volkswagen Group also owns Lamborghini, Bentley, Bugatti and Audi.

So yes, I aspire to own scale-down Lambo

Haha - no doubt Porsche makes awesome cars, truly lust worthy in some cases I.e - GT3 which > Lambo

BMW front engine, rear drive with understated style is best option imo for daily life with some fun available on tap. If your all about the track hard to beat a P car.

[sdhotwn]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Q

I said 'track focused' because that is the marketing line BMW uses to promote the M2CS over the M2C. Complete bullshit, as the M2CS will be no more track focused than the M2C.

Of course, the other half of BMW's marketing ploy is the self-prescribed 'Limited Edition' label to appeal to those drawn to the notion of 'exclusivity'
. . . which, of course, has absolutely nothing to do with performance, track focus or otherwise.

Within the 718 lineup, the GTS is a great sport car that is plenty track capable, but it is the GT4 that is truly track focused. Needless to say, the GT3 is also truly track focused.

I am interested to get behind the wheel of a 718 GTS 4.0 once available with PDK. . . not sure if it will draw me away from my 718 GTS T4? Either way, nothing 'wrong' with getting a 718 GTS

///AVM

I drove the GT4 and the 981 GTS and considered the 718. Found the M2 platform to be far more fun for daily, and more than competent enough for half dozen-ish track days a year, plus I have my E36 for track as well (which I plan to swap for a 981 S in the next couple of years for low cost track duty). I also see SOOO many P-Cars at every cars and coffee, cruise, etc that the BMW's are actually "rarer". So the CS will indeed be far more exclusive for what that will matter. It just looks better to me, and has back seats I can take my kids to car events in as well. It was a no-brainer across the board. The only competition it really had was from the flat plane in the GT350...

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by doug_999

There is a critical difference between the M2CS and the M3CS/M4CS, unless I'm mistaken (and I often am), they didn't take anything away from the M2CS - they just made it better than the M2C.

Both the M3CS and M4CS had silly, and I mean stupid, things removed for "weight savings' - which is kind of a joke on a heavy car like that. The door pulls in the M4CS are a gimmick and the loss of comfort access (while still retaining the all important rear window sunshade) meant that the BMW product planners were all marketing people.

At the end of the day, even us true BMW fanboys had a hard time going for the M3CS/M4CS at the sticker prices that BMW was asking for - mostly because, it just the sum of the parts minus what was taken away, were not worth the premium.

I for one believe the adjustable suspension in the M2CS will be amazing - if anything, for daily drive-ability. And if they simply made the car better and charged more, then cool - we can decide if that delta is worth it to us. We can see by pricing and leasing history, that didn't go so well for the M3CS/M4CS - and I believe it was because of what they took away more than what they added.

We shall see - this whole COVID thing makes it even more interesting. But I do agree -for the price they are charging, I PERSONALLY would not spend the money - but then again, I wouldn't look down on anyone who did.

PS - before the M3CS/M4CS defenders jump in that they got their car on the cheap - just remember, that was for a reason, nobody wanted to pay what BMW was asking.

Agree in the whole, the M2CS does have the centre armrest removed and anything removed has been for no/not much weight saving.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by doug_999

There is a critical difference between the M2CS and the M3CS/M4CS, unless I'm mistaken (and I often am), they didn't take anything away from the M2CS - they just made it better than the M2C.

Both the M3CS and M4CS had silly, and I mean stupid, things removed for "weight savings' - which is kind of a joke on a heavy car like that. The door pulls in the M4CS are a gimmick and the loss of comfort access (while still retaining the all important rear window sunshade) meant that the BMW product planners were all marketing people.

At the end of the day, even us true BMW fanboys had a hard time going for the M3CS/M4CS at the sticker prices that BMW was asking for - mostly because, it just the sum of the parts minus what was taken away, were not worth the premium.

I for one believe the adjustable suspension in the M2CS will be amazing - if anything, for daily drive-ability. And if they simply made the car better and charged more, then cool - we can decide if that delta is worth it to us. We can see by pricing and leasing history, that didn't go so well for the M3CS/M4CS - and I believe it was because of what they took away more than what they added.

We shall see - this whole COVID thing makes it even more interesting. But I do agree -for the price they are charging, I PERSONALLY would not spend the money - but then again, I wouldn't look down on anyone who did.

PS - before the M3CS/M4CS defenders jump in that they got their car on the cheap - just remember, that was for a reason, nobody wanted to pay what BMW was asking.

Excellent post. The M4 CS removals were especially stupid. Come on guys, let's stop trying to pretend this is an actual race-car. GM does not remove the cupholders from a Camaro ZL1 1LE and that is arguably a more track-focused car than anything BMW builds.

I fear that this will still sit on lots. My barometer is if Artemis isn't too keen on it, then they've missed the mark.

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by chris719

Excellent post. The M4 CS removals were especially stupid. Come on guys, let's stop trying to pretend this is an actual race-car. GM does not remove the cupholders from a Camaro ZL1 1LE and that is arguably a more track-focused car than anything BMW builds.

I fear that this will still sit on lots. My barometer is if Artemis isn't too keen on it, then they've missed the mark.

I'm going to dive into this one. I agree with all that has been said about the removal of creature comforts for weight. That's garbage. If you want a track car, buy a track car, this ain't it.

Tell me why the M4CS is superior to the M2CS beyond the slightly nicer interior? (I really wish the CS was getting the leather on the lower dash.)

There is almost a 100kg difference in weight. M4CS has more stated HP/TQ, The M2CS should keep pace with the M4CS. M4CS was overpriced at $102k. Seems to be well received at $80k and the M2CS is $84k. My guess is that maybe 2500 M4CS got produced? It's a very similar car, but priced where the market seemed to want the M4CS to start.

[JustChris]

Think the M4CS would have CF driveshaft. I'm not 100% certain on the drive shaft as it got a bit sketchy on dates and at times if that even happened. Don't flame me, maybe they were long gone by the time of the CS.

OLED tail lights, HUD and genuine M colour in terms of SMBlue.

Not all luxuries gone and if similar pricing once reduced .... it's extra features.

[F87EVO]

Originally Posted by JustChris

Think the M4CS would have CF driveshaft. I'm not 100% certain on the drive shaft as it got a bit sketchy on dates and at times if that even happened. Don't flame me, maybe they were long gone by the time of the CS.

OLED tail lights, HUD and genuine M colour in terms of SMBlue.

Not all luxuries gone and if similar pricing once reduced .... it's extra features.

I dont really think the M4 CS would get OLED tail lights if the GTS wasnt in existence . As for San Marino Blue M colour , you can get it on a "M"340 . Even if the misano blue is a colour that you can find on a normal BMW , when you see a Misano Blue on the M2 you know that is a CS . Can you say the same on the M4CS ? You could get the San Marino Blue on any M4 too !

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by F87 M2CS

I dont really think the M4 CS would get OLED tail lights if the GTS wasnt in existence . As for San Marino Blue M colour , you can get it on a "M"340 .

Come on now we're picking and choosing a bit.

M4CS has OLED tail lights so, um yeah it has them

[F87EVO]

Originally Posted by JustChris

Come on now we're picking and choosing a bit.

M4CS has OLED tail lights so, um yeah it has them

Oh yeah , the M4CS has the OLED lights from the GTS ! And that alone make it more special than the M2CS !

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by F87 M2CS

Oh yeah , the M4CS has the OLED lights from the GTS ! And that alone make it more special than the M2CS !

Christ here we go.

The conversation was around what the M4CS has and stripping our kit etc. Necessarily or not. Luxury item or not.

I don't say anywhere one is better than the other. There was already talk about some things being removed being pointless to save weight.

So yeah if you feel the M4CS is better because it has OLED might great. It does have them though

[F87EVO]

Originally Posted by JustChris

Christ here we go.

The conversation was around what the M4CS has and stripping our kit etc. Necessarily or not. Luxury item or not.

I don't say anywhere one is better than the other. There was already talk about some things being removed being pointless to save weight.

So yeah if you feel the M4CS is better because it has OLED might great. It does have them though

Ofc is better , it has the OLED tail lights ! Just like the CFRP roof !

[medphysdave]

I thought we were discussing whether the fate of the M2CS will follow the M4CS? I say it's almost the same car for the price people were willing to pay for it. Now I want to hear why that isn't true. I'm not super knowledge about the M4CS.

For $80k is M4cs>M2cs or just different aka =

If that's the case, then the M2CS may be priced better than we thought and may be desired. Trying to add some method to madness, not trying to bash one or other.

[Slyphen]

the question is, why should i pay $100k+ for a M2CS when i can spend the same and get a GT4, which is rarer and has more pedigree

[JCZ5]

Originally Posted by Slyphen

the question is, why should i pay $100k+ for a M2CS when i can spend the same and get a GT4, which is rarer and has more pedigree

M2CS will be rarer than the current gen GT4. The GT4 will be produced multi-year (3 - 4 years?) with no production cap. Andreas Preuninger has said it again and again that he will satisfy "all" demand for this car.

If estimations are correct, there are less than 500 M2CS coming to the US.

*And comparably equipped, a GT4 will run you significantly more. People who choose the M2CS will buy it for the exclusivity

[sdhotwn]

Originally Posted by Slyphen

the question is, why should i pay $100k+ for a M2CS when i can spend the same and get a GT4, which is rarer and has more pedigree

In the US the M2CS is not 100K, you can't buy a new GT4 for that (You'll have a hard time buying a 2016 for 85K of a M2CS still as many still float high 80's to 90s, but it's definitely possible), and they made more GT4's than 350 for the US... and more than 2200 for the world.

[F87EVO]

Originally Posted by Slyphen

the question is, why should i pay $100k+ for a M2CS when i can spend the same and get a GT4, which is rarer and has more pedigree

Why rarer in the first place , and how do you compare those 2 . Those cars are a lot different ! For my needs , i would choose the CS even if the GT4 RS was in production and cost the same amount of money . Its like comparing a Megane RS with an Alpine A110 - both share same engine , but are totally 2 different cars ! In that logic , no one should have bought a M2 CS and everyone should go for a Cayman ! No , each car - each brand has its own character , its not all about specs on papers etc .. the thing with the GT4 and the M2CS is not new , but each car has its own customers , and for each customer different needs . Is not all about 4 seats , i dont need 4 seats , i may never use the back seats , should i buy a GT4 ? I dont think so !

[sdhotwn]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

I thought we were discussing whether the fate of the M2CS will follow the M4CS? I say it's almost the same car for the price people were willing to pay for it. Now I want to hear why that isn't true. I'm not super knowledge about the M4CS.

For $80k is M4cs>M2cs or just different aka =

If that's the case, then the M2CS may be priced better than we thought and may be desired. Trying to add some method to madness, not trying to bash one or other.

To the actual question/point of the thread...

I don't think the M2CS will sit. Boils down to two reasons:
1) The M2 has consistently been bought/sold/reviewed as the "fun" M car and in the US at least, isn't on the lots much and holds its value very well. I've also met more M3/M4 owners that buy them just because it's the "top" 3 series, not because they wanted a performance car. Even more the case with the M5. I have not encountered that with M2 owners.

2) The sixth digit. It's a big psychological barrier. Suddenly getting some nice window dressing, the maximum inline six configuration, and a special trunk badge at regular M3 money (plus the options for CCB's or manual transmission if you so choose). Sold! The M3/M4CS broke the psychological barrier and was still carrying the baggage of the F80 platform "not being very good" from the earliest reviews bashing it when it launched. I don't think people wanted to dish out even more money to see if it had really finally been "fixed" (sound, feel, whatever). The M2 doesn't need fixing. So anything added is something gained.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by JustChris

Come on now we're picking and choosing a bit.

M4CS has OLED tail lights so, um yeah it has them

He's right though; if they didn't already have the OLED taillights from the GTS already sitting on the shelf, the M4 CS wouldn't of gotten them..

I guess the M2 was not boujee enough for them to spent the engineering budget on new lights.

So I say you're also correct, if that's important to your argument but it's by mere chance that the M4 CS got the swanky OLED taillights and maybe that's reflected in the lower price M2 CS, so I say it's a toss-up.

Until then, there is nothing Photoshop can't fix

[Davil]

Originally Posted by Slyphen

the question is, why should i pay $100k+ for a M2CS when i can spend the same and get a GT4, which is rarer and has more pedigree

Easy for me. I have zero interest in a Cayman. If you like that sort of car then go for it. Nothing stopping you.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by chris719

I fear that this will still sit on lots. My barometer is if Artemis isn't too keen on it, then they've missed the mark.

Digging up 11 comments posted in 2019 (pre COVID-19), reflecting my mindset about the M2 CS:

• about the car itself (I have seen the car twice up-close in September 2019, weeks before the Nov 6, 2019 official launch);
• about the proverbial elephant in the room.

Catch my drift.

Originally Posted by Artemis

10 things that I may say, methinks:

1. stance: the car ain't parked – it's waiting, ready to scramble at the push of its start button;
2. size matters: close to E46 M3 size = pretty proper size;
3. multi-purpose versatility: rather think "ace of all trades, master of many", than "jack of all trades, master of none";
4. CCB: Coin Car Bling;
5. CFRP: Car Fanatics Recognition Parts;
6. MB: Mimic Bavaria;
7. petrolhead community: "Hey BMW, what is the final base price for the M2 CS ?" – BMW: "¥€$."
8. message to BMW M3 and BMW M4: "Cave canem !"
9. message to 981 Cayman GT4: "Hi, I am your new track friend. Let's frolic."
10. message to competing car brands: "Beware, BMW M got CookieS for your (potential) customers."

Originally Posted by Artemis

It's no secret anymore that the M2 CS will be launched this month and produced next year. Very recently BMW M boss Markus Flasch coined it as "probably the most crisp and pure BMW M model we have launched in quite some time" and "it's phenomenal and drives like a race car with license plates" (see here).

The future will tell whether this new kid on the ///M block lives up to its high expectations. Based on what I know so far, I trust that the M2 CS is bound to become a very desirable BMW M car, a quintessential automotive gem setting a new beemer bliss benchmark: a properly sized, fast & powerful rear-wheel drive 4-seater with great driving dynamics, fine-tuned reliable 3.0 6-cyl powerhouse, cool design & presence, decent boot space, creature comforts and available with manual gear stick & M-DCT. You can comfortably drive your partner + two kids to the circuit, lap the circuit and all return home again with a smile, including a stop to pick up groceries. Quite practical and versatile/multipurpose.

Moreover, the M2 CS will also be one of the last models before BMW and BMW M fully implement the new 'design language' of big front end grilles. Very likely the last generation at the gates of the future era of 'grillefication', electrification, more front-wheel drive & all-wheel drive, more automatic/ZF transmission, less 6-cylinder & exhaust drama and further tightened regulations. And, hence, IMHO the M2 CS stands a good chance to be reputed as 'vintage'/'classic' in the future (so-called 'future classic'), a pinnacle car tech toy with still an 'analog' twist (instead of going fully digital) facilitating emotional connection.

But it risks to be a challenge to get hold of an allocation (build slot) (2200 cars worldwide, all built in 2020), features a peculiar Bavarian blue launch color and an immodest price-tag for a BMW 2er.

Unlike the E46 M3 CSL (SMGII), E92 M3 GTS, E90 M3 CRT, E92 DTM Champion Edition (Spengler), F82 M4 GTS, F82 DTM Champion Edition (Wittmann), F82 M4 CS, F80 M3 CS and F82 Heritage Edition, manual transmission will be available as standard feature on the M2 CS. BMW M boss Flash confirmed last Summer - in a general way about BMW M cars - that currently no plans exist to discontinue the manual gearbox (see for example here). However, almost certainly we won't see the M-DCT on the next generation M2 (G87). The M-DCT is on its way out.

Originally Posted by Artemis

M2 CS: a familiar face, that much is true, but this time around with a more intimidating, menacing frown, chin and muscle mass. With its proper dimensions, 'cool cat' stance and CS paraphernalia, the M2 CS oozes charisma, definitely.

Let's wait for more feedback about its driving dynamics, but considering its DNA and size, it looks like the driving fun stars are aligned with this new kid on the ///M block.

Originally Posted by Artemis

We have seen info and posts on features available on the M2 CS which ain't available on the M2 Competition.

Here's what springs to mind about the opposite: available on the M2 Competition, but unavailable on the M2 CS:

1. 'Long Beach Blue Metallic' and 'Sunset Orange Metallic' body colors
2. blue-colored or silver-colored brake calipers (the blue-colored ones allow 18" wheels too)
3. 19" 788M wheels (silver or darkened silver 'black') or 19" 437M wheels (darkened silver 'black')
4. Comfort Access
5. Driving Assistant - 'Lane Departure Warning'
6. Driving Assistant - 'Collision & Pedestrian Warning'
7. dry carbon trim
8. heated steering wheel (leather)
9. driver's knee pad
10. regular two-piece seats with thigh extension without cut-outs or one-piece sport seats without cut-outs
11. Dakota leather
12. 'Polar Blue' or 'Kyalami Orange' contrast-stitching
13. lumbar support
14. retractable armrest (center console)
15. storage cubbyhole under the armrest (center console)
16. wireless charging & WiFi hotspot (center console)
17. maintenance-friendly trim for center console surface (spilling, wear & tear)
18. additional USB slot (2.1 Ampère) inside the cupholders space
19. additional 12V-socket in the rear (rear part of the center console)
20. airco ventilation in the rear (rear part of the center console)
21. 40/20/40 foldable rear seats
22. armrest in rear seats featuring open/close cupholders
23. load-through in rear seats
24. non-adaptive ('passive') suspension ('one size fits all' uniformity)
25. metal roof in body color
26. roof rack anchorage points (roof drip rail with flaps)
27. glass sliding roof (moonroof)
28. no front splitter lowering the front bumper (bumps and angles ground clearance)
29. side mirror covers in body color
30. small Gurney flap on the boot
31. darkened exhaust tips
32. angular cut design for the exhaust tips
33. bonnet without powerdome & air vent (no engine bay 'direct access/ingress' for objects and humidity)
34. no add-on fender extensions
35. black M2 badge on the boot

Originally Posted by Artemis

In cauda venenum.

Originally Posted by Artemis

• M2 base model (N55) = good value for money
• M2 Competition (S55) = good value for money
• M2 CS (S55) = M2 €$ = good value for too much money

Originally Posted by Artemis

My guesstimate was ± $85K as base price for the US (see here).

So it seems that I missed the mark by $1.4K.

And as omasou pointed out $995 destination & handling, actually $405 off mark.

US base price perspective (MSRP):

• ± $53K (original M2 2016 US list price) + ± 57.74% = $83.6K (± $30.6K extra);
• ± $59K (M2 Competition 2019 US list price) + ± 41.70% = $83.6K (± $24.6K extra);
• ± $69K (M4 2019 US list price) + ± 21.16% = $83.6K (± $14.6K extra);
• ± $74K (M4 Competition 2019 US list price) + ± 12.98% = $83.6K (± $9.6K extra).

Originally Posted by Artemis

The thing is that the M2 Competition changes hands for less than MSRP. Over here discounts are offered up to 15% (and even more). Any such discounts will be way harder to obtain for the M2 CS. In the real world the price gap between M2 Competition market price and M2 CS market price is wider than what's mentioned as MSRP on paper.

And so quite understandably that begs the question whether that 50% price gap is worth its salt: for some it will, for some it won't (especially if you take the artificially generated and actually-not-so-limited exclusivity + manual transmission offering, out of the equation). If only the N55 370hp base M2 had existed right now: yes. But this is not the case: there is the S55 410hp M2 Competition. And that ain't no slouch either.

Furthermore, there is market saturation (apart from macro-economics of the worsening car sales market): base M2, M2 LCI and M2C: if the F87 appealed to a potential customer, there is a good chance that he got one, or that (s)he is looking into the option of getting one. Most won't budge because of the M2 CS (for some also because of lease commitments).

So don't generalize/stereorype this as 'sour grapes' criticism.

Originally Posted by Artemis

Rumor has it (surfaced in January 2016) that an N55 M2 and S55 M2 were actually developed side-by-side, or at least within a small time window. The N55 M2 was supposed to be named "M2". And that happened. The S55 M2 was supposed to be called "M2 CS", due for release around 2018. And that did not happen: things took a turn in 2018 because of EU emissions homologation requirements taking force in September 2018 in Europe. Result: exit the N55 M2 and rebaptizing the S55 M2 as "M2 Competition". During the Summer of 2018: exit + enter. In VIN decoders exactly the same pre-production S55 M2 got labelled "M2 CS" and at some other point in time "M2 Competition". We may reasonably assume that the S55 M2 (temporary dubbed "M2 CS") that turned "M2 Competition", was not supposed to be sold at near-base-M2 price. But the problem was that there was no entry-level BMW M car anymore with the N55 M2 being retired. So the M2 Competition unexpectedly 'dropped' into the entry-level BMW M car position, with an attractive price. That's also why the M2 Competition will continue to be regarded as excellent value for money. Also from a price perspective, the M2 Competition stole the 450hp 2020 M2 CS thunder: if the M2 Competition would have been priced somewhere in the middle between base M2 price and base M4 price, the 2020 M2 CS price would be a little less hard to stomach.

Though this rumor has never been confirmed, M2 Competition owners may occasionally come across car parts featuring "CS" stamped on it.

Originally Posted by Artemis

Let's distinguish 'cost for BMW' and 'cost for the M2 CS customer'.

When ordering an M2 CS you got a choice about (Brembo) brakes:

• tick the M-CCB box and it will set you back $8K/€8K for the gold colored M-CCB (option code 2NK);
• don't tick the M-CCB box, you get the red M Sport Brakes (code 2NH) as standard feature and the price will not change.

So no "half cost" favor to choose the M-CCB instead of the M Sport Brakes. On the M2 CS you cannot spec the original blue "regular" M2/M2C brakes (that allow fitting 18" wheels).

You could also approach it the other way around: on the M2 CS you get the red 2NH M Sport Brakes as standard feature (cost option on the M2C in Europe: silver 2NH). But of course, it's already included in the M2 CS base price. Seen from that perspective M-CCB on the M2 CS are actually the price of the 2NH + $8K/€8K (M-CCB factory installed). If you want to retrofit 2NH at a later stage, it will cost you even more: M-CCB (factory installed) + 2NH + cost of labor for the 2NH retrofit.

So, yeah, as regards the M2 CS customer wallet, M-CCB is even more costly for the M2 CS customer than the $8K/€8k option price: BMW gets the 2NH money from that customer as part of the M2 CS base price without installing 2NH onto the M2 CS of that customer.

Originally Posted by Artemis

M2 CS (€95K) + M-DCT + a metallic body color (BSM, HS or MB) = ± €100K (Germany).

[///M1]

Originally Posted by Slyphen

the question is, why should i pay $100k+ for a M2CS when i can spend the same and get a GT4, which is rarer and has more pedigree

Exaggerate much??? How is the M2CS 100K+ (even if you add CCBs nowhere near over $100K) and how is your 718 GT4 $100K?

Spend the same and get a GT4 - have you tried? Good luck getting one for $100K, and if you do, you'd wish you had added a few options to the stripper as the bare bones 718 looks rental car like inside without some must-have options (buckets, full leather, deviated stitching).

I suggest you drive a GT4 before you come to any conclusions. Having owned 2 brand new 981 GT4s, I will tell you openly for me that car will forever be etched in history as 'the car it could have been'. It was pretty clear PAG stopped short from having its reach its full potential (giving it a very pedestrian non-GT engine and very tall gearing that was a buzz kill). The 718 is a facelift of the 981, and the new 4.0 engine while marginally better, still has same tq while dealing with increased weight, and the same tall gearing. Even a modestly equipped GT4 will run you in the 120s. (FWIW, I feel they nailed the Spyder, this time making it truly the top-less GT4 with the same engine, brakes, and suspension specs as the GT4, which was not the case with the 981 Spyder).

Originally Posted by Poochie

Good for you, like I said, if I had the coin and was in need of a new car, I would get one also..

But I imagine it must get tedious having to justify your purchase and how foolish one is, for spending their money, on something they really want..

I am so used to this, that doesn't bother me. Having been questions and asked to justify when the B7 RS4 came out why I 'overpaid' for a 'fancier' S4, or the 1M which was a 'glorified' 135is, or the 30 Yahre M3 over a plain Jane F80.

I get it - for existing M2/M2C owners the delta to CS is pretty steap price-wise. But for folks like myself - and I assure you - there is more than 400 of us States-side, we have been patiently waiting the entire model lifecycle for the pinnacle of the M2. So back on topic - I do not see these 'sitting' on dealer lots and getting massive discounts given both the limited supply, and enough demand to meet that. Heck, EAG can scoop any 'residual' and wait till you see what they will reappear as on their site a few weeks later

And btw, the delta between the M2C/M2CS and the M4C/M4CS is far greater. In the M4 you can get CF roof, adaptive suspension, CCBs, etc. (and needless to say the delta in power output was slimmer) - all forbidden fruit on the M2C, so there is even a stronger argument the jump between the C and CS respective models offers a much higher delta (and thus 'value' to those that are value-driven) on the 2 than on the 4.

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by ///M1

Exaggerate much??? How is the M2CS 100K+ (even if you add CCBs nowhere near over $100K) and how is your 718 GT4 $100K?

Spend the same and get a GT4 - have you tried? Good luck getting one for $100K, and if you do, you'd wish you had added a few options to the stripper as the bare bones 718 looks rental car like inside without some must-have options (buckets, full leather, deviated stitching).

I suggest you drive a GT4 before you come to any conclusions. Having owned 2 brand new 981 GT4s, I will tell you openly for me that car will forever be etched in history as 'the car it could have been'. It was pretty clear PAG stopped short from having its reach its full potential (giving it a very pedestrian non-GT engine and very tall gearing that was a buzz kill). The 718 is a facelift of the 981, and the new 4.0 engine while marginally better, still has same tq while dealing with increased weight, and the same tall gearing. Even a modestly equipped GT4 will run you in the 120s. (FWIW, I feel they nailed the Spyder, this time making it truly the top-less GT4 with the same engine, brakes, and suspension specs as the GT4, which was not the case with the 981 Spyder).


I am so used to this, that doesn't bother me. Having been questions and asked to justify when the B7 RS4 came out why I 'overpaid' for a 'fancier' S4, or the 1M which was a 'glorified' 135is, or the 30 Yahre M3 over a plain Jane F80.

I get it - for existing M2/M2C owners the delta to CS is pretty steap price-wise. But for folks like myself - and I assure you - there is more than 400 of us States-side, we have been patiently waiting the entire model lifecycle for the pinnacle of the M2. So back on topic - I do not see these 'sitting' on dealer lots and getting massive discounts given both the limited supply, and enough demand to meet that. Heck, EAG can scoop any 'residual' and wait till you see what they will reappear as on their site a few weeks later

And btw, the delta between the M2C/M2CS and the M4C/M4CS is far greater. In the M4 you can get CF roof, adaptive suspension, CCBs, etc. (and needless to say the delta in power output was slimmer) - all forbidden fruit on the M2C, so there is even a stronger argument the jump between the C and CS respective models offers a much higher delta (and thus 'value' to those that are value-driven) on the 2 than on the 4.

Interesting perspective from a GT4 owner. I always appreciate the Pcar owners opinions as a lot of members seem to aspire to a Pcar and BMW is an inferior stepping stone.

We must be sensitive to the M2CS being significantly pricier in other markets. I agree with all you have stated being a fellow US buyer.

I would also agree that the changes to the M2CS from C is greater than M4CS from C. This is why I'm beginning to think that the M2CS isn't overpriced. It just doesn't present much value over the M2C. The M4CS appearing nonsensical now that I'm looking at it since most options were available on the C.

Edit: As a point of reference I do frequent PorscheUS to see what is out there. It's hard for me to find a spec that I like in a color that I want. Most colors I don't find appealing. This morning I was looking a 991GTS manual with aerocup kit. List at $106k. I could probably get it under $100k. It's certified, low miles etc. I just don't see the value there between the M2CS and a used GTS that isn't exactly what I want. Especially when factoring in on-paper statistics and usability of coupe vs sportscar. I can certainly get a used 991.1S in the $80s the way I would want. I'm a value buyer. I'm driving my current car because I got a great deal and it's a good value to me. M2CS is a good value to me when shopping used 991/992 variants. If I were purchasing a used 991.1 it would have to have an original sticker in $140s and me buy it in upper $70s to low $80s with under 25k miles. Those deals are out there. The value to me being the 50% off MSRP for a low milage excellent car vs actually loving the 991.