[Advevo]

You buy 2016 M2
Then comes the LCI
You buy an LCI then comes M2C
You buy an M2C then comes then M2CS
Whats next in store?

I think it s a bit to much. People don t know when to buy anymore!

[DanG]

Originally Posted by Advevo

You buy 2016 M2
Then comes the LCI
You buy an LCI then comes M2C
You buy an M2C then comes then M2CS
Whats next in store?

I think it s a bit to much. People don t know when to buy anymore!

Just like cell phones. New and “better” models come out all the time. Relax and just enjoy the BMW you have.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by JustChris

Wow times have changed.

Seems like a decent tease/reveal 4 days ago with big clues of the CS.

A few years back, heck a year ago this would have caused melt down. Now pretty much 4 replies.

I think this is just over played now. People are showing they're not that interested anymore until some facts are released.

We basically know what to expect with a CS treatment, including the 40%+ msrp premium. Also it seems a large portion of the weight savings will come from a $8k brake package, which I’m sure with be an option...not standard.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Advevo

You buy 2016 M2
Then comes the LCI
You buy an LCI then comes M2C
You buy an M2C then comes then M2CS
Whats next in store?
I think it s a bit to much. People don t know when to buy anymore!

If BMW doesn't change its mind, an M2 CSL will be the final curtain call for the F87 (scheduled for a one year release - final year of F87 production).

[SeanWRT]

Artemis , SCOTT26

You guys work in some way for BMW marketing, or so it looks to me with your latest posts.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

Artemis , SCOTT26
You guys work in some way for BMW marketing, or so it looks to me with your latest posts.

Hold your horses. I am in no way affiliated to BMW or BMW M (neither directly, nor indirectly). And my job is totally unrelated to the automotive industry, marketing or journalism. My cars and everything these feature, as well as all my trips, I pay with my own personal money (no company money, no leasing, no sponsoring, no freebies, no story suggestions, no company invitations or favors). Down at BMW or BMW M my real name is only logged as personal owner of BMW M vehicles. Just another BMW M enthusiast. True story.

[baki777]

The case is that people noticed the dirty game of BMW.

CS and CSL are very sensible letters. BMW announce a M4 CS with more or less the same weight as the base model and add 40% premium.

I hold my bread for a CSL and hope it will be a car for enthusiasts and not a second marketing gig.

[Karmic Man]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Has it finally happened that the prospect of an M2 CS has not stirred the emotions of everyone that it's looked upon as persona non grata?

Scott. We need something tangible to feel excited about. Like seeing a 6MT in a test mule or a S58 or a 100kg reduction in weight or a no more than 20% in pricing increment statement.

The M2 Comp has been the most successful recent M car in recent history since the 1M in drawing up people's imagination and winning praises from motor journalists globally. This is because its performance envelope exceeds people's expectations + its launch price was below people's expectation.

The name CS however doesn't ring as being affordable to many after seeing how the M3/M4CS was priced and with marginal performance increase over the ZCP models.

Therefore to generate more interest and ultimately be successful on this model, I believe a aggressive pricing strategy is very important and has to be openly stated. Having a racing pedigree like the E30/E36 M3 in the Grp A & Grp N era or like the E92 M3, F80 M4 in the DTM will certainly make this car a success regardless of aggressive pricing but you don't have that as leverage here. The M2 had never raced in any major international touring car championship. Hopefully that will change going forward as the M2 is the sportiest M car in the range and M should stand for Motorsport, not Media

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

Scott. We need something tangible to feel excited about. Like seeing a 6MT in a test mule or a S58 or a 100kg reduction in weight or a no more than 20% in pricing increment statement.

The M2 Comp has been the most successful recent M car in recent history since the 1M in drawing up people's imagination and winning praises from motor journalists globally. This is because its performance envelope exceeds people's expectations + its launch price was below people's expectation.

The name CS however doesn't ring as being affordable to many after seeing how the M3/M4CS was priced and with marginal performance increase over the ZCP models.

Therefore to generate more interest and ultimately be successful on this model, I believe a aggressive pricing strategy is very important and has to be openly stated. Having a racing pedigree like the E30/E36 M3 in the Grp A & Grp N era or like the E92 M3, F80 M4 in the DTM will certainly make this car a success regardless of aggressive pricing but you don't have that as leverage here. The M2 had never raced in any major international touring car championship. Hopefully that will change going forward as the M2 is the sportiest M car in the range and M should stand for Motorsport, not Media

M2C is the one BMW have aggressive pricing with. Go order one.

CS isn't really for everyone and better be expensive and perform. F80/82 CS/GTS are jokes because they approach 911 GTS/GT3 price territory and perform nowhere close, no mention GTS is stupidly unstreetable.

You want a cheap high performing car, there is the Shelby GT350 that's just faster than any bmw.

Again, CS/CSL MUST and PLEASE be expensive.

M2 has a lower base price to start with. Not all that difficult to perform accordingly.

[Karmic Man]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

M2C is the one BMW have aggressive pricing with. Go order one.

CS isn't really for everyone and better be expensive and perform. F80/82 CS/GTS are jokes because they approach 911 GTS/GT3 price territory and perform nowhere close, no mention GTS is stupidly unstreetable.

You want a cheap high performing car, there is the Shelby GT350 that's just faster than any bmw.

Again, CS/CSL MUST and PLEASE be expensive.

M2 has a lower base price to start with. Not all that difficult to perform accordingly.

"CS isn't really for everyone and better be expensive and perform" -
they did that with the M4GTS and M3/M4CS and sales were disappointing to say the least!

"F80/82 CS/GTS are jokes because they approach 911 GTS/GT3 price territory and perform nowhere close, no mention GTS is stupidly unstreetable." - So what is the right price point? I quoted less than 20% and CS being 40% over the regular model you said its too expensive

"You want a cheap high performing car, there is the Shelby GT350 that's just faster than any bmw." - I want a more focus but affordable CS! Again what is the price point you talking about as "Must be expensive" and not "CS/GTS Expensive"?

"M2C is the one BMW have aggressive pricing with. Go order one." - I have but will consider trading up if the CS is reasonably priced and gets a 6MT!

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

Hopefully that will change going forward as the M2 is the sportiest M car in the range and M should stand for Motorsport, not Media

It got to shine its original colors.





And, to some extent, I can relate to the scene pictured below.

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

"CS isn't really for everyone and better be expensive and perform" -
they did that with the M4GTS and M3/M4CS and sales were disappointing to say the least!

"F80/82 CS/GTS are jokes because they approach 911 GTS/GT3 price territory and perform nowhere close, no mention GTS is stupidly unstreetable." - So what is the right price point? I quoted less than 20% and CS being 40% over the regular model you said its too expensive

"You want a cheap high performing car, there is the Shelby GT350 that's just faster than any bmw." - I want a more focus but affordable CS! Again what is the price point you talking about as "Must be expensive" and not "CS/GTS Expensive"?

"M2C is the one BMW have aggressive pricing with. Go order one." - I have but will consider trading up if the CS is reasonably priced and gets a 6MT!

Karmic Man, my apologies for being a little over aggressive.

My wish for the CS/CSL is for them to perform. Any limit-run and significantly better-performing variants of any car demand more than 20% premium.

We don't expect a CS showing up the car we want to call CS and at just 70k. We want to it be priced at 90+k (for the US market) like a 911 none-S base and perform like one. Ultimately, a CSL for 911 GTS money that performs accordingly.

Let's not forget 13 years back the CSL was built to compete with GT3 and did its job well. We already lowered our expectation this time with CSL.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

Karmic Man, my apologies for being a little over aggressive.

My wish for the CS/CSL is to perform. Any limit-run and significantly better-performing variants of any car demand more than 20% premium.

We don't expect a CS showing up the car we want it to be and at just 70k. We want to it be priced at 90+k (for the US market) like a 911 none-S base and perform like one. Ultimately, a CSL for 911 GTS money that performs accordingly.

Let's not forget 13 years back the CSL was built to compete with GT3 and did its job well. We already lowered our expectation this time with CSL.

I don't think they're really going to do much to the CS version to improve performance besides tweak the tune slightly to still less than a base S55 in the f80 and their cup 2 tyres on it.

You'll get some minor weight savings from the CF parts anyone can buy for any m2, some manual seats, maybe remove dual climate ac.

Really you get about the same by just putting cup2 tyres on an m2c.

[Karmic Man]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

Karmic Man, my apologies for being a little over aggressive.

My wish for the CS/CSL is for them to perform. Any limit-run and significantly better-performing variants of any car demand more than 20% premium.

We don't expect a CS showing up the car we want to call CS and at just 70k. We want to it be priced at 90+k (for the US market) like a 911 none-S base and perform like one. Ultimately, a CSL for 911 GTS money that performs accordingly.

Let's not forget 13 years back the CSL was built to compete with GT3 and did its job well. We already lowered our expectation this time with CSL.

Totally understand where you are coming from, Sean.

This time though they are constrainted by this 'performance hierarchy' framework which put a ceiling on how hard core and how fast the CS can be. Just like how the GT3 put a performance ceiling on the GT4. It can't be faster than the M4 GTS or the M4 CS which means be default it won't be even be at a 911 GTS level let alone a GT3.

The E46 CSL concept works at the time because the E46 GTR was racing internationally, like in the Le Mans GT Series against 911s, Ferraris and Aston Martins. The E46 M3 CSL is not a racing homologation but still it has racing pedigree. The upcoming M2 CS unfortunately does not. In addition there was no ceiling artificially placed above it at the time like...oh we can't make it to lap faster than the 4L V8 E39 M5 at the Ring.

The road version of the E46 M3 GTR was a racing homologation and it commanded top dollar to which everyone totally understands. https://www.bmwblog.com/2016/03/13/b...limited-model/

Who do they identity as main competitors of the CS? I am still unclear as of now.

Perhaps the CS model doesn't need a direct competitor. BMW just want to build a more complete M car for track junkies and I fully welcome that gesture.

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

Who do they identity as main competitors of the CS? I am still unclear as of now.

Perhaps the CS model doesn't need a direct competitor. BMW just want to build a more complete M car for track junkies and I fully welcome that gesture.

Thanks for the informative reply!

My comments as for the CS competitor - any car at its price blanket. Heck these days people even compare M5 to dedicated sports car only because they're similarly priced. So, the assumed 90K price point will put it next to the M3/4 CS (after market adjustment), M5, 992 base, 991.2s used and American Muscles. There is little doubt that M2 CS will dynamically outperform all its BMW siblings. And a true M car doesn't have to perform better than muscle cars to win over audience.

But the mighty 911? We've already known that if you're paying 911 money for performance or anything, you better get a 911.

Last point - BMW builds CS for track junkies? Chances are slim to none...This is how corporate works (as I work in one) - The project/product team, which in this case, the small M GmbH team, makes a product plan/proposal that makes all the business sense. It must be profitable, growing revenue and on top of all, fit in BMW master product pipeline. Only so that management would approve. The project objectives have and will always be the business growth and the profitability or the combination of both. Enthusiasts' satisfaction has never been a direct concern. Proof? They didn't even bother making a MT for M3 CSL 2006, M3 GTS 2011 and M4 GTS 2016.

All is said and done, CS/CSL must be as low cost as it's attractive enough to sell as many as they make. The project must deliver result (business growth and profitability). So that on the F87 SOP day they look back and proudly report to the management that F87 project as a whole is a huge success, having met these goals.

[akkando]

Wonder if post CS release assuming it has factory cf roof if BMW will at some point offer cf roof factory installed on M2C? Maybe MY21....I would bet no, probably exclusive to CS along with some exclusive paint (smb?)

What say y'all?

[Project_F87]

Originally Posted by akkando

Wonder if post CS release assuming it has factory cf roof if BMW will at some point offer cf roof factory installed on M2C? Maybe MY21....I would bet no, probably exclusive to CS along with some exclusive paint (smb?)

What say y'all?

Stop hoping for a BMW option and just have IND install it for you. For around $2500 you can have a quality roof installed by professionals. That's what I plan on doing when I get my M2C

[Jason]

New M2 CS / CSL sighting!

We've posted our latest spy photos @ https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1543417

[RPM33]

Any idea when the official unveiling will be?

[medphysdave]

Seems pretty close to production. I'm guessing they wrapped the whole car black to hide the carbon roof. The white mule only looked to have the hood, roof, and trunk wrapped white.

[seis-speed]

If this is a 6MT car, it could be special.

I think the CS formula for (Auto Only) when it is an enthusiast version...... is missing the point.

[medphysdave]

The fenders look wider on this car. Maybe it's the lighting, but hopefully someone can analyze the images for me to determine yay or nay.