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      02-25-2021, 01:11 AM   #1
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MHD ethanol content analyzer

https://www.bimecu.com/mhd-can-flexf...ickinstall-kit

Flex fuel is coming to MHD soon, can't wait to see the results!

I actually really like the way this kit sits in the car, it is really clean.
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      02-25-2021, 09:29 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
https://www.bimecu.com/mhd-can-flexf...ickinstall-kit

Flex fuel is coming to MHD soon, can't wait to see the results!

I actually really like the way this kit sits in the car, it is really clean.
Nice. Do you think the hardware is actually proprietary or just repackaging the flex fuel sensor with MHD logo?

Meaning, I wonder if this would work with BM3, Ecutek, etc, if it proves to be cheaper or better than other hardware options?
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      02-25-2021, 10:36 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
https://www.bimecu.com/mhd-can-flexf...ickinstall-kit

Flex fuel is coming to MHD soon, can't wait to see the results!

I actually really like the way this kit sits in the car, it is really clean.
Nice. Do you think the hardware is actually proprietary or just repackaging the flex fuel sensor with MHD logo?

Meaning, I wonder if this would work with BM3, Ecutek, etc, if it proves to be cheaper or better than other hardware options?
Flex fuel sensors are pretty standard. I doubt they made their own.

They being said, I like where this mounts vs having to run something through the firewall.

I'm going to read about the ECU connection a bit. Will report back with findings.
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      02-25-2021, 10:51 AM   #4
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Alright. I watched the install video and read some docs.

I'm 100% certain this device works identical to the Zeitronix ECA-2 CANBUS unit.

I'm pretty sure the only reason they plug into the EKP module is to tap the canbus and power/ground lines.

As long as the broadcast canbus IDs are the same, I don't see any reason this wouldn't work for both Ecutek, and BM3 (when available). I believe those canbus IDs are universal on the F series BMW's, (maybe across more chassis's as well). Would be pretty easy for me to test if I had one of these units handy. My AIM Solo 2 DL unit is setup to read E content and temp from the canbus of my Zeitronix ECA-2.

I'm curious as to what the price point is going to be.

This is the cleanest solution I've seen by far, given that it uses OEM connectors and does not require any wire taps, or routing through the firewall as I mentioned before. Theres also a hell of a lot more room to mount this in the back vs trying to find a spot near the passenger footwell to mount the ECA-2.

EDIT: That being said, the unit from Bend Calibration is still a legit option. The fact its paired with an ID-F750 fuel filter makes it "better", though more difficult to install. I see the MHD solution being a "bolt-on" option for those who want a simple solution to flex-fuel.
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      02-25-2021, 11:07 AM   #5
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I decided to send Bimecu an email, requesting a unit for testing. Will see if they'd be willing to send me one.
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      02-25-2021, 01:16 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Nice. Do you think the hardware is actually proprietary or just repackaging the flex fuel sensor with MHD logo?

Meaning, I wonder if this would work with BM3, Ecutek, etc, if it proves to be cheaper or better than other hardware options?
Like detroit m2 said, ethanol sensor is likely a generic GM one. The analyzer itself is likely designed for MHD, I'm not sure if the canbus IDs can be shared with other tuning platforms, and that's what would determine cross compatabilty.


I too like the bend calibration filter and will likely still buy that unit, then combine it with this ECA kit. Who knows as time goes on there might be even better implementations.
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      02-27-2021, 01:31 AM   #7
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In a facebook comment thread with one on of the MHD guys that developed it, they said the canbus is proprietary to MHD..

They most likely built their own controller.

I do like the mounting location and the tap in by the EKP.

With that said... bendcalibration is always working on something new.. info to come once they're ready for those that dislike the zeitronix solution.
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      02-27-2021, 08:32 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cookiesowns View Post
In a facebook comment thread with one on of the MHD guys that developed it, they said the canbus is proprietary to MHD..

They most likely built their own controller.

I do like the mounting location and the tap in by the EKP.

With that said... bendcalibration is always working on something new.. info to come once they're ready for those that dislike the zeitronix solution.
Weird they would make the canbus interface proprietary.

Fwiw, BM3 also has one of these devices in the works, and it will operate on the same canbus IDs as the Zeitronix unit. Meaning it should work for BM3 and Ecutek out of the box.
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      02-27-2021, 01:26 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detroitm2 View Post
Weird they would make the canbus interface proprietary.

Fwiw, BM3 also has one of these devices in the works, and it will operate on the same canbus IDs as the Zeitronix unit. Meaning it should work for BM3 and Ecutek out of the box.
Maybe that's how they like to use their canbus IDs in their tuning, it really isn't up to MHD to make stuff work for everyone it's up to other tuning companies to make their software work with other hardware - hence why MHD has the box that allows you to choose eca type.
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      02-27-2021, 01:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by detroitm2 View Post
Weird they would make the canbus interface proprietary.

Fwiw, BM3 also has one of these devices in the works, and it will operate on the same canbus IDs as the Zeitronix unit. Meaning it should work for BM3 and Ecutek out of the box.
Maybe that's how they like to use their canbus IDs in their tuning, it really isn't up to MHD to make stuff work for everyone it's up to other tuning companies to make their software work with other hardware - hence why MHD has the box that allows you to choose eca type.
It's not really a matter of how they "like" to do it. IMO. everyone else uses the same IDs. The only reason they would do this is to force people to use their tune, and their hardware.

For what it's worth, the Zeitronix unit actually allows you to reprogram the canbus IDs it sends on, so you could probably still use that with MHD if you sorted out what id's they're using.
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      02-27-2021, 01:55 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detroitm2 View Post
It's not really a matter of how they "like" to do it. IMO. everyone else uses the same IDs. The only reason they would do this is to force people to use their tune, and their hardware.

For what it's worth, the Zeitronix unit actually allows you to reprogram the canbus IDs it sends on, so you could probably still use that with MHD if you sorted out what id's they're using.
Or maybe they don't like copy and pasting other people's work, MHD was the first to do flex fuel on the exx n54. They have been working on F series flex fuel for a long time in the back ground so maybe these can IDs were before ecutek and zeritronix. Irregardless MHD is concerned with how they do things and how it it might be used for someone else.

It doesn't force you to use their hardware, they have a toggle in app for different ecas. Its up to other tuners to make their software work with MHD's hardware, if not then use a different solution simple.
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      02-27-2021, 02:15 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by detroitm2 View Post
It's not really a matter of how they "like" to do it. IMO. everyone else uses the same IDs. The only reason they would do this is to force people to use their tune, and their hardware.

For what it's worth, the Zeitronix unit actually allows you to reprogram the canbus IDs it sends on, so you could probably still use that with MHD if you sorted out what id's they're using.
Or maybe they don't like copy and pasting other people's work, MHD was the first to do flex fuel on the exx n54. They have been working on F series flex fuel for a long time in the back ground so maybe these can IDs were before ecutek and zeritronix. Irregardless MHD is concerned with how they do things and how it it might be used for someone else.

It doesn't force you to use their hardware, they have a toggle in app for different ecas. Its up to other tuners to make their software work with MHD's hardware, if not then use a different solution simple.
Sure, and with Ecutek, you can define whatever canbus IDs you want.

My point is that a standard already exists for this, and MHD decided to go against it. (it's part of the OBD2 PID standard)

There's nothing to gain by NOT going with the standard that's been defined since the late 90s. It just makes it that much hardware for tuners to work with.
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      02-27-2021, 02:30 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detroitm2 View Post
Sure, and with Ecutek, you can define whatever canbus IDs you want.

My point is that a standard already exists for this, and MHD decided to go against it. (it's part of the OBD2 PID standard)

There's nothing to gain by NOT going with the standard that's been defined since the late 90s. It just makes it that much hardware for tuners to work with.
Idk you'll have to talk to MHD on that, all I'm saying is idc what MHD does on the back end as long as the results are good.

It won't make any difference to the tuners on how they tune, because they won't be seeing raw canbus IDs they will see the ethanol content and will be tuning accordingly via the table editing software and blend ratios.

It wouldnt even be difficult for hardware manufacturers because MHD will be the ones worrying about making sure their software is capable with working with different eca's (toggle box). The only one it will impact is other tuning companies.
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      02-27-2021, 03:08 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by detroitm2 View Post
Sure, and with Ecutek, you can define whatever canbus IDs you want.

My point is that a standard already exists for this, and MHD decided to go against it. (it's part of the OBD2 PID standard)

There's nothing to gain by NOT going with the standard that's been defined since the late 90s. It just makes it that much hardware for tuners to work with.
Idk you'll have to talk to MHD on that, all I'm saying is idc what MHD does on the back end as long as the results are good.

It won't make any difference to the tuners on how they tune, because they won't be seeing raw canbus IDs they will see the ethanol content and will be tuning accordingly via the table editing software and blend ratios.

It wouldnt even be difficult for hardware manufacturers because MHD will be the ones worrying about making sure their software is capable with working with different eca's (toggle box). The only one it will impact is other tuning companies.
It's just sloppy. I'm a software engineer by trade and it bugs the hell out of me when people go against standards for no apparent reason.

Additionally, it's not just tuners, think of all the other kinds of devices that use that data. Gauges, piggyback units, etc. Hell, anyone who uses a custom dash unit from companies like AIM is completely boned.
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      02-27-2021, 03:46 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detroitm2 View Post
It's just sloppy. I'm a software engineer by trade and it bugs the hell out of me when people go against standards for no apparent reason.

Additionally, it's not just tuners, think of all the other kinds of devices that use that data. Gauges, piggyback units, etc. Hell, anyone who uses a custom dash unit from companies like AIM is completely boned.
Maybe they went proprietary because they wanted to keep things to themselves, they don't have to go through all the hardwork developing something so other companies can just snag their hardware. Atleast their app still gives you an option to choose different ECA's so you're not stuck. As long as MHD isn't forcing customers to only use their hardware then im ok with it, I could care less if they want to keep their hardware restricted to just MHD that's not my problem.

Well not all of BMW's canbus ID's are standard either, for example generic obd2 protocol ID's don't work for individual cylinder timing, oil pressure, HPFP data etc. If it did then it wouldn't have taken so long (relative to release date) to discover the ram addresses to implement 6 cylinder logging on jb4 for the F series. Take a look at torque pro, a good bit of their standard OBD2 protocols don't work on bmw, you have to enter custom ram addresses to get anything to work.

For obd2 vent gauges that imo are pretty trash because of how limited they are and how slow they poll data, then you are screwed. If you use something like AIM then you have the ability to input custom can ID's, because they actually thought about the design of their gauges and the fact that there could be variations in Can ID's. If you guys a Piggy back that is well supported that shouldn't be an issue either.


Otherwise if you are really concerned with your obd2 based devices then use a different ECA.


Remember this is still a prototype unit, there is no concrete information posted about this unit so nothing is confirmed as of yet.
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      02-28-2021, 03:53 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detroitm2 View Post
It's just sloppy. I'm a software engineer by trade and it bugs the hell out of me when people go against standards for no apparent reason.

Additionally, it's not just tuners, think of all the other kinds of devices that use that data. Gauges, piggyback units, etc. Hell, anyone who uses a custom dash unit from companies like AIM is completely boned.
Can you link me to said standard? IIRC there is no automotive defined standard for can bus ID for ethanol content sensors.

Zeitronix just managed to use a standard identifier at address 0x00ec which just so happens to be an abbreviation of ethanol content.

That said it’s a missed market forsure now that we have 2 tuning suites to choose from, and it’ll be nice to see the MHD one in use.

Either way I’m sure people will come out with solutions soon. A MCU with CAN capabilities is trivial to get as is the code to write. Biggest thing is making it mass production.
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      02-28-2021, 08:25 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cookiesowns View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by detroitm2 View Post
It's just sloppy. I'm a software engineer by trade and it bugs the hell out of me when people go against standards for no apparent reason.

Additionally, it's not just tuners, think of all the other kinds of devices that use that data. Gauges, piggyback units, etc. Hell, anyone who uses a custom dash unit from companies like AIM is completely boned.
Can you link me to said standard? IIRC there is no automotive defined standard for can bus ID for ethanol content sensors.

Zeitronix just managed to use a standard identifier at address 0x00ec which just so happens to be an abbreviation of ethanol content.

That said it’s a missed market forsure now that we have 2 tuning suites to choose from, and it’ll be nice to see the MHD one in use.

Either way I’m sure people will come out with solutions soon. A MCU with CAN capabilities is trivial to get as is the code to write. Biggest thing is making it mass production.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBD-II_PIDs

In general, this in compasses multiple bus's, but the standard for ethanol content does exist.

How these related to canbus IDs I'm unsure.

Remember that BM3 is also releasing flex fuel soon. Great to have options.
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      02-28-2021, 03:01 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detroitm2 View Post
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBD-II_PIDs

In general, this in compasses multiple bus's, but the standard for ethanol content does exist.

How these related to canbus IDs I'm unsure.

Remember that BM3 is also releasing flex fuel soon. Great to have options.
OBD II PIDs do not equivalate to can bus ID’s. They are entirely different. Yes you can query for info over can bus, but that depends on the implementation. Manufactures are also not required to implement all of the SAE PIDs only the ones required for emissions.

Also while there is a PID for ethanol content that seems specific to certain GM vehicles.

I’m all about standardizing hardware and software especially on BMWs, but saying just because someone doesn’t follow the footsteps of someone else does not make them wrong.. it’s all aftermarket anyways.
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      02-28-2021, 03:21 PM   #19
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Quote:
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OBD II PIDs do not equivalate to can bus ID’s. They are entirely different. Yes you can query for info over can bus, but that depends on the implementation. Manufactures are also not required to implement all of the SAE PIDs only the ones required for emissions.

Also while there is a PID for ethanol content that seems specific to certain GM vehicles.

I’m all about standardizing hardware and software especially on BMWs, but saying just because someone doesn’t follow the footsteps of someone else does not make them wrong.. it’s all aftermarket anyways.
That's probably why 90% (might be exaggerating) of the torque pro standard SAE PID's don't work on bmw's lol.
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      02-28-2021, 04:55 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cookiesowns View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by detroitm2 View Post
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBD-II_PIDs

In general, this in compasses multiple bus's, but the standard for ethanol content does exist.

How these related to canbus IDs I'm unsure.

Remember that BM3 is also releasing flex fuel soon. Great to have options.
OBD II PIDs do not equivalate to can bus ID’s. They are entirely different. Yes you can query for info over can bus, but that depends on the implementation. Manufactures are also not required to implement all of the SAE PIDs only the ones required for emissions.

Also while there is a PID for ethanol content that seems specific to certain GM vehicles.

I’m all about standardizing hardware and software especially on BMWs, but saying just because someone doesn’t follow the footsteps of someone else does not make them wrong.. it’s all aftermarket anyways.
Ah, thanks for the clarification.
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      03-04-2021, 11:59 PM   #21
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It's cute to read how Zeitronix default CanID is now a "standard" for FlexFuel

The guy just used "0xEC", a hex acronym that reads "Ethanol Content". Just for fun. Not sure he ran long R&D sessions to make sure that "standard" does not overlap with ptcan traffic of F/G series that BMW produces (and which doesn't care what Zeitronix is having as default config).
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      03-05-2021, 12:08 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imap777 View Post
It's cute to read how Zeitronix default CanID is now a "standard" for FlexFuel

The guy just used "0xEC", a hex acronym that reads "Ethanol Content". Just for fun. Not sure he ran long R&D sessions to make sure that "standard" does not overlap with ptcan traffic of F/G series that BMW produces (and which doesn't care what Zeitronix is having as default config).
Yes we all have now established that ethanol content is not a standardized canbus ID -everybody makes mistakes, let's avoid arguments and move on to discussing the MHD flex fuel setup.
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