[xxyion]

Originally Posted by Poochie

I did the BMW Select balloon loan before and it's pretty scary knowing you have to write a big, lump sum check, at the end of 5 years.

I believe the idea behind the ballon loan is that when it matures, you'll just trade it in for a new vehicle, like what some cell phone carriers do with phones, on installment plans and still has a balance and the new model comes out

However, there is nothing wrong with that sort of financing, if it works better for your financial situation.


https://www.bmwofbrooklyn.com/financ...ect-financing/

Yeah i honestly did it only on the mentality that i'd be selling it at the end of 5years at the longest. Otherwise i would have just done normal financing. I figured i could save some money this way.

On the topic of cross shopping, honestly i feel anything goes. The other cars i was looking at along side the M2C were the 202 Supra, 2020 Hakone Edition 86 (the color itself almost made this a winner but it was the dealership that actually made me not get the car), Veloster N, M240i, and the Civic Type R. THe M2C was easily the most expensive out of the selection and not even the most practical, but there was just something about it that called to me compared to the other cars.

[baege]

just on the Q60
i think it's a beautiful car and was pretty excited about it when it came out
10 minutes into a test drive I knew it wouldn't cut it
fast, but serious turbo lag, and the engine doesn't have a particularly smooth character
transmission has serious upshift lag with paddles and there is no manual
floaty handling
I did not like the car at all

I ended up with an m240i xdrive over the Q60 which was not nearly as beautiful but much more fun and engaging to drive

the delta between the Q60 and an M2C would be absolutely huge in terms of driving experience, so IMHO OP don't even bother with the Q60

AVM perhaps you were blinded by looks, we've all been there

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by baege

just on the Q60
i think it's a beautiful car and was pretty excited about it when it came out
10 minutes into a test drive I knew it wouldn't cut it
fast, but serious turbo lag, and the engine doesn't have a particularly smooth character
transmission has serious upshift lag with paddles and there is no manual
floaty handling
I did not like the car at all

I ended up with an m240i xdrive over the Q60 which was not nearly as beautiful but much more fun and engaging to drive

the delta between the Q60 and an M2C would be absolutely huge in terms of driving experience, so IMHO OP don't even bother with the Q60

AVM perhaps you were blinded by looks, we've all been there

Beauty is definitely in the eye of the beholder. 😃

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by baege

just on the Q60
i think it's a beautiful car and was pretty excited about it when it came out
10 minutes into a test drive I knew it wouldn't cut it
fast, but serious turbo lag, and the engine doesn't have a particularly smooth character
transmission has serious upshift lag with paddles and there is no manual
floaty handling
I did not like the car at all

I ended up with an m240i xdrive over the Q60 which was not nearly as beautiful but much more fun and engaging to drive

the delta between the Q60 and an M2C would be absolutely huge in terms of driving experience, so IMHO OP don't even bother with the Q60

AVM perhaps you were blinded by looks, we've all been there

Baege

Thank you for your feedback

Although my experience with the Q60 was not the same as yours, I respect your feedback. Gives OP and anyone else cross shopping the Q60 and M2C more to consider going into their own test drive.

Regarding a few of your specific comments. . . I was quite surprised with the Q60 power. Although not quite in keeping with M2C, it definitely pulled hard and had a playful rear end. Q60 suspension definitely 'softer' than the M2C and, although more than capable, not quite as nimble through the twisties. I personally prefer the M2C 'looks' to the Q60 but the latter has a nice sporty coupe stance.

Overall, I think the Q60 is comparable and approaches the M2C in most performance and aesthetic regards. If a prospective buyer is looking for a sporty coupe that is a bit 'softer' than than the M2C, then I think they would be very happy with the Q60. Similarly, if the M2C is stretching one's budget, the Q60 represents an excellent 'compromise,' if you will, at $13-14K less than than the M2C.

///AVM

[baege]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Baege

Thank you for your feedback

Although my experience with the Q60 was not the same as yours, I respect your feedback. Gives OP and anyone else cross shopping the Q60 and M2C more to consider going into their own test drive.

Regarding a few of your specific comments. . . I was quite surprised with the Q60 power. Although not quite in keeping with M2C, it definitely pulled hard and had a playful rear end. Q60 suspension definitely 'softer' than the M2C and, although more than capable, not quite as nimble through the twisties. I personally prefer the M2C 'looks' to the Q60 but the latter has a nice sporty coupe stance.

Overall, I think the Q60 is comparable and approaches the M2C in most performance and aesthetic regards. If a prospective buyer is looking for a sporty coupe that is a bit 'softer' than than the M2C, then I think they would be very happy with the Q60. Similarly, if the M2C is stretching one's budget, the Q60 represents an excellent 'compromise,' if you will, at $13-14K less than than the M2C.

///AVM

it is indeed all very subjective and the more views the merrier!

have you tried an m240i?, that car is to me a much more engaging cheaper alternative to the M2C than a Q60

it still has the BMW DNA and you can feel it

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by baege

. . . have you tried an m240i?, that car is to me a much more engaging cheaper alternative to the M2C than a Q60 . . .

Baege

Your question about the M240i is relevant to this thread and OP’s interest in an M2C comparable. My response to your question, as to be expected, is purely subjective and may, or may not be prove helpful to OP or anyone else cross shopping the M2C.

To answer your question directly . . . no, I never considered the M240i, although I absolutely agree it might represent the best comparable for anyone who finds the M2C is stretching their budget.

I think I have been honest about a few things on this forum. I am a Porsche guy; the 718 CGTS is the best car I have ever owned; and I had absolutely no need to obtain a second vehicle. . . oh, and that the M2C is a special, once in a generation ///M car that simply defied my sense of better reason and ability to resist obtaining.

I was not cross shopping the M2C. I am a fan of the M4 but, more than anything, my interest in the M4 served to offset my desire to own an M2C . . . BMW engineers derailed my willpower to resist the M2C when they completely fucked the front grille design of the forthcoming M4 model release.

So, in summary, it was M2C or bust for me . . . but I have no doubt the M240i is a great comparable for anyone whose interest in the M2C is not quite in keeping with financial considerations.

///AVM

[JCZ5]

I will say it again, if OP has a primary car and just looking for something fun. Get the ND Miata, it is relatively cheap, and boy you get a lot of fun out of it. You can redline at every gear and still be within legal speeds. But you feel like you're going so much faster. And the shifter is sublime! Just constantly changing gears and heel toe-ing with a big smile on my face.

After all, a true enthusiast focuses on the driving experience more than the on paper metrics. Try it and let me know your thoughts.

[bubsterino]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Baege

Your question about the M240i is relevant to this thread and OP's interest in an M2C comparable. My response to your question, as to be expected, is purely subjective and may, or may not be prove helpful to OP or anyone else cross shopping the M2C.

To answer your question directly . . . no, I never considered the M240i, although I absolutely agree it might represent the best comparable for anyone who finds the M2C is stretching their budget.

I think I have been honest about a few things on this forum. I am a Porsche guy; the 718 CGTS is the best car I have ever owned; and I had absolutely no need to obtain a second vehicle. . . oh, and that the M2C is a special, once in a generation ///M car that simply defied my sense of better reason and ability to resist obtaining.

I was not cross shopping the M2C. I am a fan of the M4 but, more than anything, my interest in the M4 served to offset my desire to own an M2C . . . BMW engineers derailed my willpower to resist the M2C when they completely fucked the front grille design of the forthcoming M4 model release.

So, in summary, it was M2C or bust for me . . . but I have no doubt the M240i is a great comparable for anyone whose interest in the M2C is not quite in keeping with financial considerations.

///AVM

former M240 owner here. if I wasn't able to "justify" the M2C payment, I would have happily leased another one. Haven't found another RWD, stick shift, coupe, with back seats, with this power, in this price range to compare.

the next step up on the bang/buck curve is steep (for me, 911 territory).

[Emm2Cee]

Originally Posted by JCZ5

I will say it again, if OP has a primary car and just looking for something fun. Get the ND Miata, it is relatively cheap, and boy you get a lot of fun out of it. You can redline at every gear and still be within legal speeds. But you feel like you're going so much faster. And the shifter is sublime! Just constantly changing gears and heel toe-ing with a big smile on my face.

After all, a true enthusiast focuses on the driving experience more than the on paper metrics. Try it and let me know your thoughts.

Oh I know all about Miatas. I owned an NC and an ND would be an extremely fun car to drive. Alas, I need the backseats and this will be my DD.

[Hegge]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Baege

Your question about the M240i is relevant to this thread and OP’s interest in an M2C comparable. My response to your question, as to be expected, is purely subjective and may, or may not be prove helpful to OP or anyone else cross shopping the M2C.

To answer your question directly . . . no, I never considered the M240i, although I absolutely agree it might represent the best comparable for anyone who finds the M2C is stretching their budget.

I think I have been honest about a few things on this forum. I am a Porsche guy; the 718 CGTS is the best car I have ever owned; and I had absolutely no need to obtain a second vehicle. . . oh, and that the M2C is a special, once in a generation ///M car that simply defied my sense of better reason and ability to resist obtaining.

I was not cross shopping the M2C. I am a fan of the M4 but, more than anything, my interest in the M4 served to offset my desire to own an M2C . . . BMW engineers derailed my willpower to resist the M2C when they completely fucked the front grille design of the forthcoming M4 model release.

So, in summary, it was M2C or bust for me . . . but I have no doubt the M240i is a great comparable for anyone whose interest in the M2C is not quite in keeping with financial considerations.

///AVM

I agree with you ///AVM on the M4. That grille is too much to take. Just ugly and I fear the next M3 and M4 will experience massive depreciation.

If I can't obtain a M2 CS, then I will have to spring for a Porsche. Next M4 will probably be too ugly and heavy with the AWD. I'm interested in small, nimble, and agile cars but with an automatic transmission.

I fear the next M3/M4 will sit on the lots with the ugly grille and launching in a down economy.

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by Hegge

I agree with you ///AVM on the M4. That grille is too much to take. Just ugly and I fear the next M3 and M4 will experience massive depreciation.

If I can't obtain a M2 CS, then I will have to spring for a Porsche. Next M4 will probably be too ugly and heavy with the AWD. I'm interested in small, nimble, and agile cars but with an automatic transmission.

I fear the next M3/M4 will sit on the lots with the ugly grille and launching in a down economy.

I too find these large grills hideous, but I'm taking a wait and see approach. Eventually we all fall in line with the designs, although there are several BMWs that are still ugly to me. I think the 2 GC and new 3 look like Japanese luxoboxes now, especially from behind.

But yes, for light and nimble we have to look elsewhere. Even the M2 is a few hundred pounds heavier than it should be

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by BigKutta

I too find these large grills hideous, but I'm taking a wait and see approach. Eventually we all fall in line with the designs, although there are several BMWs that are still ugly to me. I think the 2 GC and new 3 look like Japanese luxoboxes now, especially from behind.

But yes, for light and nimble we have to look elsewhere. Even the M2 is a few hundred pounds heavier than it should be

The new M4 might be a butterface but did you see how flat it takes a corner and how hard it pulls, in the stock form.

I had to adjust the FPS on my phone, to keep up with motion of the leaked videos, featuring the G82 M4 mule. It reminded me of that gun-wrenching-like torque push, like the GTR I was in recently, that scared me into comatose state, that had me just embracing death. Nice

I already know BMW is going to do something hybrid, in conjunction with a strait 6 turbo, like what they currently offer in the 745e. Which, I predict, would produce a good 500 clean horsepower.

There is also a watered-down version of an electric boost motor on the new G-Series M440i, which adds a meager 11hp but the numbers don't tell half the story, as it's the instant push of power that electric allots, virtually no drivetrain loss.

Let not kid ourselves, electric cars are on the horizon. Trump might not give a shit about emissions, here in the US but European government has taken strides to tighten up their regulations on smog control and they are obviously a large market for BMW, so the company would have to adaptive to the ever-changing rules, of which hybrid is the easiest solution to easy power. Just like what Turbos did for the modern BMWs.

I know the next M2 is going to be heavier and wider, the writing is on wall, as every new model is touting their new weight-saving endeavors but there is still an increase in overall mass.

There is no doubt the G87 is going to top 3,500lbs, base. But whatever, so I'm just glad that it would even be an option.

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by Poochie

The new M4 might be a butterface but did you see how flat it takes a corner and how hard it pulls, in the stock form.

I had to adjust the FPS on my phone, to keep up with motion of the leaked videos, featuring the G82 M4 mule. It reminded me of that gun-wrenching-like torque push, like the GTR I was in recently, that scared me into comatose state, that had me just embracing death. Nice

I already know BMW is going to do something hybrid, in conjunction with a strait 6 turbo, like what they currently offer in the 745e. Which, I predict, would produce a good 500 clean horsepower.

There is also a water-down version of an electric boost motor on the new G-Series M440i, which adds a meager 11hp but the numbers don't tell half the story, as it's the instant push of power that electric allots, virtually no drivetrain loss.

Let not kid ourselves, electric cars are on the horizon. Trump might not give a shit about emissions, here in the US but European government has taken strides to tighten up their regulations on smog control and they are obviously a large market for BMW, so the company would have to adaptive to the ever-changing rules, of which hybrid is the easiest solution to easy power. Just like what Turbos did for the modern BMWs.

I know the next M2 is going to be heavier and wider, the writing is on wall, as every new model is touting their new weight-saving endeavors but there is still an increase in overall mass.

There is no doubt the G87 is going to top 3,500lbs, base. But whatever, so I'm just glad that it would even be an option.

Poochie

Good stuff!

Few personal comments in response to those of your own . . .

I absolutely love the M4 lines and road stance. I'm pretty good about letting change grow on me. . . but the front grille remains a 'huge' non-starter for me. The iconic part of BMW's iconic kidney grille was totally fucked. No looking past it for me.

Performance-wise, the GTS chassis has ruined me . . . everything else just seems too big. No matter the power available, there is nowhere for the mass to hide. So, the GTS is my sport car, while the M2C and M4 represent sporty coupes. Not just any sporty coupes; among the very BEST on the road.

The 'road' part is important, particularly when it comes to the M4; although 'trackable,' it belongs on the road at this stage of its 'growth.' Given nearly nobody will routinely track their M4, it truly is a sweet-ass ride for the spirited daily driver. . . I think you know how I feel about the M2C.

Yes, brother, the ICE reign is coming to an end . . . as you also say, enjoy it while we got it.

///AVM

[xxyion]

Originally Posted by Emm2Cee

Oh I know all about Miatas. I owned an NC and an ND would be an extremely fun car to drive. Alas, I need the backseats and this will be my DD.

Theres also the BRZ/86 twins to consider if just looking for something fun but more practical.

However if you are dead set on the M2 Competition i wont steer you away. I used to own a BRZ and my ex owned a Miata, and now with the M2C, honestly this car is definitely the next step up. The driving experience is very similar to my old BRZ (just not as low to the ground) but you get twice as much power and a lot more creature comforts to boot.

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Poochie

Good stuff!

Few personal comments in response to those of your own . . .

I absolutely love the M4 lines and road stance. I'm pretty good about letting change grow on me. . . but the front grille remains a 'huge' non-starter for me. The iconic part of BMW's iconic kidney grille was totally fucked. No looking past it for me.

Performance-wise, the GTS chassis has ruined me . . . everything else just seems too big. No matter the power available, there is nowhere for the mass to hide. So, the GTS is my sport car, while the M2C and M4 represent sporty coupes. Not just any sporty coupes; among the very BEST on the road.

The 'road' part is important, particularly when it comes to the M4; although 'trackable,' it belongs on the road at this stage of its 'growth.' Given nearly nobody will routinely track their M4, it truly is a sweet-ass ride for the spirited daily driver. . . I think you know how I feel about the M2C.

Yes, brother, the ICE reign is coming to an end . . . as you also say, enjoy it while we got it.

///AVM

Ton's of M3/M4's at the track - try going to one and see for yourself. The f8x is by far the most trackable M3 out of the box ever made. Bullet proof cooling, stiff chassis, masses of power, advanced differential. The brakes don't stand up to heavy use but they are better than anything that's come before. The longer wheel base makes it significantly more stable than the M2. Its way better balanced and significantly easier to hustle at 10/10th's than any 911 flavor. You can also throw 4 tires and a raft of tools in the back, try doing that with a Cayman. No doubt the Cayman is a beautiful chassis and great handling car but the 4 pot GTS was an absolute flop.

The 2022 BMW GT3 car is based on the M4, so seems BMW don't agree with you either.

[JCZ5]

Originally Posted by Montaver

Ton's of M3/M4's at the track - try going to one and see for yourself. The f8x is by far the most trackable M3 out of the box ever made. Bullet proof cooling, stiff chassis, masses of power, advanced differential. The brakes don't stand up to heavy use but they are better than anything that's come before. The longer wheel base makes it significantly more stable than the M2. Its way better balanced and significantly easier to hustle at 10/10th's than any 911 flavor. You can also throw 4 tires and a raft of tools in the back, try doing that with a Cayman. No doubt the Cayman is a beautiful chassis and great handling car but the 4 pot GTS was an absolute flop.

The 2022 BMW GT3 car is based on the M4, so seems BMW don't agree with you either.

I've always wondered if reviewers and people's systemic dislike of 4 cylinders (which makes no sense) was the reason for its "flop". I say this because modern Cayman/Boxster have always been 6 cylinder. We somehow have engrained ourselves that anything less of a 6 cylinder, should not be a true cayman/Boxster. But don't forget the original roadster that became the modern Cayman/Boxster, that genesis version was a 4 cylinder.

I understand people's dislike of the sound (which honestly is not terrible). But in terms of performance, it is far superior than the previous gen 6 cylinder. If you ask a car enthusiast who has not be indoctrinated into the Porsche ethos, they would love it.

I draw parallels to how most of us hate electric cars. In our mind, a fun sports car must be ICE. But times are changing and luckily, technology and innovation affords us the ability to adapt and potentially make fun electric cars...remember when people thought the e46 was a porker? And then the e92 came out? Then, the F82, etc etc. Now, we love the e46 lol

As for the M4 on track. Yeah, I think people track them, but is it really a track car without the appropriate upgrades? It's a car that can go on the track...Hell, people track Golf R, Civic SI, AMG SUVs, Porsche Macan turbo, and so forth. So tracking something has a very loose definition. And that is OK! It gives an avenue for car owners to really drive their cars at or over the limit in a safe manner.

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by JCZ5

I've always wondered if reviewers and people's systemic dislike of 4 cylinders (which makes no sense) was the reason for its "flop". I say this because modern Cayman/Boxster have always been 6 cylinder. We somehow have engrained ourselves that anything less of a 6 cylinder, should not be a true cayman/Boxster. But don't forget the original roadster that became the modern Cayman/Boxster, that genesis version was a 4 cylinder.

I understand people's dislike of the sound (which honestly is not terrible). But in terms of performance, it is far superior than the previous gen 6 cylinder. If you ask a car enthusiast who has not be indoctrinated into the Porsche ethos, they would love it.

I draw parallels to how most of us hate electric cars. In our mind, a fun sports car must be ICE. But times are changing and luckily, technology and innovation affords us the ability to adapt and potentially make fun electric cars...remember when people thought the e46 was a porker? And then the e92 came out? Then, the F82, etc etc. Now, we love the e46 lol

As for the M4 on track. Yeah, I think people track them, but is it really a track car without the appropriate upgrades? It's a car that can go on the track...Hell, people track Golf R, Civic SI, AMG SUVs, Porsche Macan turbo, and so forth. So tracking something has a very loose definition. And that is OK! It gives an avenue for car owners to really drive their cars at or over the limit in a safe manner.

Because a $100k sports car is an emotional purchase. Porsche effectively ripped out the Caymans soul and asked people to pay $100k for the pleasure. Despite the Porsche brand worship it was a bridge too far. Sure its faster, but it sounds like a blender with nails in it. I say this as someone who appreciates a 4 cylinder engine (VTEC yo), but there is a reason the majority of cars are 4 cylinder turbos nowadays. They are cheap to build, economical, tuned for easy torque. None of those should be considerations for a low volume sports car with a big price tag. Porsche to their credit realized this, and now we have the GTS 4.0.

Define 'trackable'? The M3/4 is certainly more track able out of the box than any of the cars you listed. With camber plates it could thump around a circuit all day whilst needing only fuel, tires, and brake pads. As a platform it has all the ingredients you need, how far you take it entirely depends. For context my friend has a mildly fettled M3 CS doing 2:03's at WGI. That's very quick indeed.

[cptobvious]

Originally Posted by JCZ5

I've always wondered if reviewers and people's systemic dislike of 4 cylinders (which makes no sense) was the reason for its "flop". I say this because modern Cayman/Boxster have always been 6 cylinder. We somehow have engrained ourselves that anything less of a 6 cylinder, should not be a true cayman/Boxster. But don't forget the original roadster that became the modern Cayman/Boxster, that genesis version was a 4 cylinder.

I understand people's dislike of the sound (which honestly is not terrible). But in terms of performance, it is far superior than the previous gen 6 cylinder. If you ask a car enthusiast who has not be indoctrinated into the Porsche ethos, they would love it.

I draw parallels to how most of us hate electric cars. In our mind, a fun sports car must be ICE. But times are changing and luckily, technology and innovation affords us the ability to adapt and potentially make fun electric cars...remember when people thought the e46 was a porker? And then the e92 came out? Then, the F82, etc etc. Now, we love the e46 lol

As for the M4 on track. Yeah, I think people track them, but is it really a track car without the appropriate upgrades? It's a car that can go on the track...Hell, people track Golf R, Civic SI, AMG SUVs, Porsche Macan turbo, and so forth. So tracking something has a very loose definition. And that is OK! It gives an avenue for car owners to really drive their cars at or over the limit in a safe manner.

Good sir,

I think you've hit the nail on the head. Within any group, it's necessary to signal your standing and status. Amongst film enthusiasts, you have to talk endlessly of Scorsese's brilliance and pooh-pooh the poor benighted fools who love comic book movies. The folks who are "in the know" in the world of poetry laugh at Billy Collins, while extolling the virtues of "experimental" poetry. Want street cred in the rationalist community? It's a given that we live in a simulation, and it's also a given that Roko's Basilisk is coming to get us, unless we end up devoting 90% of GDP to regulating A.I.

I've discovered that in the car enthusiast community, there are certain sacred cows. 4-cylinder engine = horrible, while naturally-aspirated = all that is good and holy and wonderful in this world is one of those.

When I test drove the 981, I hated it. As a daily driver, it evinced as much power and excitement as my 1981 Corolla hatchback. It had zero low-end torque. Always felt like a Toyota Sienna could get off the line faster. I then test drove the 718 Cayman, and relative to the 981, it rocked! Lots of low end torque, felt fast, sounded wonderful to my ears.

But, then again, I came to this whole performance car thing with zero pre-conceived notions. Had never driven a performance car of any sort. Had no idea what a turbo was or what the hell the difference is between 4, 6, 8, or 12 cylinders. No idea. All I knew was that for my use case as a daily driver, the 718 kicked ass, while the 981 felt slow and lifeless.

Now, I get it: If your use case is the track, then I totally understand how you might prefer the 981 to the 718 - you'll spend all your time at 7000 RPM, you'll have plenty of torque, etc., etc. But, as a daily driver? Kinda sucks.

But, from a signaling perspective, the 981 checks all the right boxes: You get to signal that you've got this amazing 6-cylinder engine that lives to be tracked and that you're obviously the second coming of Senna.

The only issue with signaling is that it can eventually leave you far behind the curve. Here's an example: Did you know that Blitzkrieg was actually a strategy developed by the British in 1917??? Unfortunately, the folks who were "in the know" in Britain, back then, all had their standing and status tied up in horses. I s*** you not. Horses. The top commanders were those in the cavalry. So, they pooh-poohed modern, mechanized warfare. Meanwhile, the Germans came at it without any pre-conceived notions (they'd already lost WWI, so they didn't have any sacred cows), and eagerly adopted the new technology / philosophy.

Good news is that if you don't care about sacred cows, you can use others' desire to signal status as an incredible arbitrage opportunity. 718 Cayman GTS can be had for amazing discounts at the moment, given that the GTS 4.0 is on the way.

[JCZ5]

@cptobvious you always blow me away with your well crafted point of views. Thank you sir!

100% agree with your last statement. When the GTS 4.0 becomes more prevalent, I would gladly pick up a 4 cyl. GTS and have a great time. A true car enthusiast would gladly support any owner who buys a car and who loves the art of driving. Regardless of preconceived options that it should have.

As a side bar, I am a watch enthusiast. You see the same parallels of people saying you have to get a Rolex or Patek, etc. Sure those watches are fine, but I also enjoy a $200 Seiko. We say the best watch you have is whichever watch you have on your wrist. The same could be said about cars...change wrist to whatever you're driving.

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by cptobvious

Good sir,

I think you've hit the nail on the head. Within any group, it's necessary to signal your standing and status. Amongst film enthusiasts, you have to talk endlessly of Scorsese's brilliance and pooh-pooh the poor benighted fools who love comic book movies. The folks who are "in the know" in the world of poetry laugh at Billy Collins, while extolling the virtues of "experimental" poetry. Want street cred in the rationalist community? It's a given that we live in a simulation, and it's also a given that Roko's Basilisk is coming to get us, unless we end up devoting 90% of GDP to regulating A.I.

I've discovered that in the car enthusiast community, there are certain sacred cows. 4-cylinder engine = horrible, while naturally-aspirated = all that is good and holy and wonderful in this world is one of those.

When I test drove the 981, I hated it. As a daily driver, it evinced as much power and excitement as my 1981 Corolla hatchback. It had zero low-end torque. Always felt like a Toyota Sienna could get off the line faster. I then test drove the 718 Cayman, and relative to the 981, it rocked! Lots of low end torque, felt fast, sounded wonderful to my ears.

But, then again, I came to this whole performance car thing with zero pre-conceived notions. Had never driven a performance car of any sort. Had no idea what a turbo was or what the hell the difference is between 4, 6, 8, or 12 cylinders. No idea. All I knew was that for my use case as a daily driver, the 718 kicked ass, while the 981 felt slow and lifeless.

Now, I get it: If your use case is the track, then I totally understand how you might prefer the 981 to the 718 - you'll spend all your time at 7000 RPM, you'll have plenty of torque, etc., etc. But, as a daily driver? Kinda sucks.

But, from a signaling perspective, the 981 checks all the right boxes: You get to signal that you've got this amazing 6-cylinder engine that lives to be tracked and that you're obviously the second coming of Senna.

The only issue with signaling is that it can eventually leave you far behind the curve. Here's an example: Did you know that Blitzkrieg was actually a strategy developed by the British in 1917??? Unfortunately, the folks who were "in the know" in Britain, back then, all had their standing and status tied up in horses. I s*** you not. Horses. The top commanders were those in the cavalry. So, they pooh-poohed modern, mechanized warfare. Meanwhile, the Germans came at it without any pre-conceived notions (they'd already lost WWI, so they didn't have any sacred cows), and eagerly adopted the new technology / philosophy.

Good news is that if you don't care about sacred cows, you can use others' desire to signal status as an incredible arbitrage opportunity. 718 Cayman GTS can be had for amazing discounts at the moment, given that the GTS 4.0 is on the way.

Captain

Echoing JC’s sentiments, you certainly know how to throw down a damn good read . . . thank you.

I am going to keep it simple here . . . I do not buy cars for anyone but me.

When it comes to Porsche, if I listened to all the media and so-called online expert views, I would own a 981 GTS, 981 GT4 or 911 variant . . . I chose the 718 CGTS because it is simply an amazing sport car that did, and continues to do more for ME than any of the others I explored.

I reserve opinion on the 718 GTS 4.0 and GT4 until they become available in PDK. Probably a good year-plus on both fronts, and my understanding is that the PDK will only be available with release of the GT4 RS.

The M2C is a really fun car that has already succeed in satisfying the ‘hooligan’ in me.

Thank you again Captain

///AVM

[mrcheezle19]

For what it’s worth I’m a Ford Sales Manager and I’m buying an M2. I just can’t get behind the mustangs size and how big they feel behind the wheel.

[JCZ5]

Originally Posted by mrcheezle19

For what it’s worth I’m a Ford Sales Manager and I’m buying an M2. I just can’t get behind the mustangs size and how big they feel behind the wheel.

Wow a Ford Manager acknowledging he prefers a M2 over a mustang?! Do you have to go into witness protection afterwards?

I'm just pulling your chain 😉. Great to hear high praises. Personally, I'm a big fan of the GT350, but I do have concerns about build quality and interior refinement. If I had a large enough car collection, it would certainly make sense. But a lot of other great options at that price range or below, in the case of the M2C