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      09-09-2020, 09:44 AM   #1
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Rate My Winter Upgrades!

So I'm plotting out my winter upgrade path. I was originally planning on going directly to PS2, but decided on a different route based on some new information.

Heres my current engine mods:
  • Bootmod3 Stage 2
  • M-Performance Exhaust
  • CSF Intercooler
  • FTP Charge Pipe
  • FTP Boost Pipe
  • FTP Turbo Inlet Pipe
  • GFB DV+ Diverter Valve
  • Dinan Intake
  • Active Autowerke Catted Downpipe

This setup running ~ 103 octane fuel (racegas tune) put down around 401HP on a dynojet.

Based on the upcoming OTS tune for E85 from BM3, along with flex fuel sensor support, I am planning the following:
  • Dorch Stage 2 HPFP
  • Walbro Stage 2 LPFP (needed?)
  • PR Coils
  • 3.5 bar TMAP sensor
  • Flex fuel sensor
  • BM3 Full E85 tune

Is there anything I'm missing here? Is the LPFP required for full E85? Do I need anything additional to support it?

Given that pump fuel E85 has questionable ethanol content, the flex-fuel sensor is a must for me. I want to reliably be able to run E85, and periodically switch to pump fuel without much hassle. I do not want to deal with mixing the fuel as this is a daily driver and track toy combo.
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      09-09-2020, 10:04 AM   #2
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We switched from bm3 E85 map to Jordan custom 100% E85 on the shop's M4, you will be pleasantly surprised
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      09-09-2020, 10:09 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
We switched from bm3 E85 map to Jordan custom 100% E85 on the shop's M4, you will be pleasantly surprised
Yeah, my original plan was to go with Jordan for tuning. But it seems we'll have an OTS option soon, which would likely be fine for me. I like reliable power. If I was wanting to squeeze every last bit of HP out of the engine, a custom tune would definitely be more on my radar.

I realize it's a different car/engine, but what upgrades did you do to the M4 to support E85?
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      09-11-2020, 01:32 PM   #4
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@detroitm2 from my understanding, they don't need any mods to support full E85. DP + tune and it's ready to fly. Of course there is the fear of the crack hub with that engine so there's a give and take with it.
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      09-11-2020, 02:34 PM   #5
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EDIT, misread the first post.
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      09-11-2020, 03:26 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by 6speed_M2 View Post
@detroitm2 from my understanding, they don't need any mods to support full E85. DP + tune and it's ready to fly. Of course there is the fear of the crack hub with that engine so there's a give and take with it.
As far as I'm aware, due to the increase is fuel required for E85, the OEM fuel HPFP cant keep up. That, and it's not designed to run full E85. the same for the LPFP.

We're already seeing HPFP drop off with pump gas builds, so I can only imagine the problem with be exacerbated when having to push ~ 40% more fuel for E85.
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      09-11-2020, 05:28 PM   #7
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BM3 doesn't read flex fuel sensors. As far as I recall, there isn't any tuning software that does for the M2. They don't link with the DME. There was a convo I was having with someone else on here not too long ago about it.

Pump e85 isn't actually e85 either, it's more like e40. Well, that's what the sources I was reading said back when I was having the convo. Wiki says USA e85 is 51-83% ethanol.

Either way, flex fuel would be pointless regardless of what e content the fuel has, because there isn't a working tunable flex fuel sensor for the m2.

So your options are:
1) Don't install flex fuel sensor, run pump e85, and use the BM3 e30 tune. Which is designed for e30 as a safety measure for pump e85 variaences.

2) Purchase your own e85 that has consistent ethanol content and get a custom tune for that.

If running e85, you want a bigger turbo though. Because the stock turbo would run out of it's efficiency range. It would make low end power, but fizzle out in the top end.
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      09-11-2020, 05:32 PM   #8
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Here's the thread. I think ecutek supports flexflu

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...highlight=meth
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      09-11-2020, 05:48 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
BM3 doesn't read flex fuel sensors. As far as I recall, there isn't any tuning software that does for the M2. They don't link with the DME. There was a convo I was having with someone else on here not too long ago about it.

Pump e85 isn't actually e85 either, it's more like e40. Well, that's what the sources I was reading said back when I was having the convo. Wiki says USA e85 is 51-83% ethanol.

Either way, flex fuel would be pointless regardless of what e content the fuel has, because there isn't a working tunable flex fuel sensor for the m2.

So your options are:
1) Don't install flex fuel sensor, run pump e85, and use the BM3 e30 tune. Which is designed for e30 as a safety measure for pump e85 variaences.

2) Purchase your own e85 that has consistent ethanol content and get a custom tune for that.

If running e85, you want a bigger turbo though. Because the stock turbo would run out of it's efficiency range. It would make low end power, but fizzle out in the top end.
BM3 is release flex fuel support soon. See this thread

https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=26660531

I realize that pump E85 is inconsistent, which is why I'm waiting for the flex fuel support.
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      09-11-2020, 06:29 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detroitm2 View Post
BM3 is release flex fuel support soon. See this thread

https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=26660531

I realize that pump E85 is inconsistent, which is why I'm waiting for the flex fuel support.
HOT DAMN! Didn't see that. I've been really busy this week. That's a lot of good features. Not sure there's a reason to switch to ecutek anymore. I'm excited for rolling anti-lag. Always wanted that.

Also flexfuel makes me reconsider e85. Can before that, methanol with 93 was the better option for me.

So you're not swapping turbos though?
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      09-11-2020, 07:02 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by detroitm2 View Post
BM3 is release flex fuel support soon. See this thread

https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=26660531

I realize that pump E85 is inconsistent, which is why I'm waiting for the flex fuel support.
HOT DAMN! Didn't see that. I've been really busy this week. That's a lot of good features. Not sure there's a reason to switch to ecutek anymore. I'm excited for rolling anti-lag. Always wanted that.

Also flexfuel makes me reconsider e85. Can before that, methanol with 93 was the better option for me.

So you're not swapping turbos though?
Yeah, not at first. My plan is to run just E85 on track days and 93 on the street. Perhaps next winter going to PS2. I should have all the supporting mods at that point.

I'm curious of the flex fuel support on a straight E85 tune will allow for changing between pump gas and E85 without a retune.

Even if it doesn't, the map switching ability will make it easy.

The biggest reason I want full E85 tune is to avoid having to mix fuel. It's a pain in the ass, and I'm just too lazy for all that. E85 tune with Flex fuel support takes out the guess work.
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      09-11-2020, 07:22 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detroitm2 View Post
Yeah, not at first. My plan is to run just E85 on track days and 93 on the street. Perhaps next winter going to PS2. I should have all the supporting mods at that point.

I'm curious of the flex fuel support on a straight E85 tune will allow for changing between pump gas and E85 without a retune.

Even if it doesn't, the map switching ability will make it easy.

The biggest reason I want full E85 tune is to avoid having to mix fuel. It's a pain in the ass, and I'm just too lazy for all that. E85 tune with Flex fuel support takes out the guess work.
Yup, was ready to mention the map switching in the middle of reading your sentence then saw you said it right after haha.

I have my doubts BM3 will issue an OTS e85 tune for stock M2 turbo, due to what I mentioned before. But who knows, maybe they will. Otherwise you'd have to get a custom tune. e85 would help keep things cool and prevent detonation on hot track days. But I think the low end, non-linear power would force you to pedal the throttle coming out of corners to avoid spin.

Also I'm having my doubts the update will be available for N55, because BM3 usually announces updates relating to the N55 in the N55 section. In the past, if they've update for both engines, they post about it in both sections. Hope it's not that way, but that's what I'm thinking right now.

PS2 was on my list to buy this black friday, but don't think I will now. Landlord wants to raise my rent and a new tenant moved in next door who is an ex-con and is really aggressive towards me, always yelling at everyone and fighting with his gf, and makes the whole house smell like cigarettes and weed. Making it impossible for me to work at home. So I think it's time to buy a house. And where I wanna live is 9hrs away, in west virginia. So that's a big expense and whole process I gotta do instead of car upgrades.
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      09-11-2020, 07:44 PM   #13
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Found the N55 answers by looking through their post history. They posted in the F30 N55 section and said.

"DME on the N55 is virtually the same and we're looking to port the features over to the N55 as soon as its finalized on the S55."

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1755989
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      09-11-2020, 07:59 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
Found the N55 answers by looking through their post history. They posted in the F30 N55 section and said.

"DME on the N55 is virtually the same and we're looking to port the features over to the N55 as soon as its finalized on the S55."

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1755989
Yeah, was going to mention that. I read somewhere they did plan on porting it.

Who knows how long, but that's why this is my winter upgrade thread!
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      09-11-2020, 08:00 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by detroitm2 View Post
Yeah, not at first. My plan is to run just E85 on track days and 93 on the street. Perhaps next winter going to PS2. I should have all the supporting mods at that point.

I'm curious of the flex fuel support on a straight E85 tune will allow for changing between pump gas and E85 without a retune.

Even if it doesn't, the map switching ability will make it easy.

The biggest reason I want full E85 tune is to avoid having to mix fuel. It's a pain in the ass, and I'm just too lazy for all that. E85 tune with Flex fuel support takes out the guess work.
Yup, was ready to mention the map switching in the middle of reading your sentence then saw you said it right after haha.

I have my doubts BM3 will issue an OTS e85 tune for stock M2 turbo, due to what I mentioned before. But who knows, maybe they will. Otherwise you'd have to get a custom tune. e85 would help keep things cool and prevent detonation on hot track days. But I think the low end, non-linear power would force you to pedal the throttle coming out of corners to avoid spin.

Also I'm having my doubts the update will be available for N55, because BM3 usually announces updates relating to the N55 in the N55 section. In the past, if they've update for both engines, they post about it in both sections. Hope it's not that way, but that's what I'm thinking right now.

PS2 was on my list to buy this black friday, but don't think I will now. Landlord wants to raise my rent and a new tenant moved in next door who is an ex-con and is really aggressive towards me, always yelling at everyone and fighting with his gf, and makes the whole house smell like cigarettes and weed. Making it impossible for me to work at home. So I think it's time to buy a house. And where I wanna live is 9hrs away, in west virginia. So that's a big expense and whole process I gotta do instead of car upgrades.
Ugh. Apartments suck for this reason right here. I'd rather rent a cheap house in the burbs than live in another apartment.
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      09-11-2020, 08:20 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detroitm2 View Post
Ugh. Apartments suck for this reason right here. I'd rather rent a cheap house in the burbs than live in another apartment.
Hmm. You gave me ideas. I can look into renting a house in the city I'm in now. Or I can buy a cheap house here and then rent it out when I'm more ready to move states. Houses are cheap here, but taxes are high. Also all my money is in crypto investments so I rather wait for prices to go up to buy a nice home in WV. Stuff to think about. But I won't hijack your thread with it.
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      09-23-2020, 08:41 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detroitm2 View Post
...I am planning the following:
  • Dorch Stage 2 HPFP
  • Walbro Stage 2 LPFP (needed?)
  • PR Coils
  • 3.5 bar TMAP sensor
  • Flex fuel sensor
  • BM3 Full E85 tune

Is there anything I'm missing here? Is the LPFP required for full E85? Do I need anything additional to support it?

Given that pump fuel E85 has questionable ethanol content, the flex-fuel sensor is a must for me. I want to reliably be able to run E85, and periodically switch to pump fuel without much hassle. I do not want to deal with mixing the fuel as this is a daily driver and track toy combo.
Your current mods look good and I like the direction you're going. I question the PR coils because many tuners I've talked to say they're unnecessary.

I'm also curious about the need for an LPFP upgrade as I'm in the same boat with my big turbo installation. If you go with a Walbro stage 2, you'll also likely need a LPFP EKP controller replacement as I've heard the stock unit overheats and can't keep up.
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Last edited by nothingman; 09-23-2020 at 10:44 AM..
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      09-23-2020, 09:20 AM   #18
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FTP Turbo Inlet Pipe - same sized as stock, do the MSTv2 instead.

GFB DV+ Diverter Valve- requires routine maintenance and more involved install. Do the Turbosmart unit instead.

Dinan Intake - stock intake with drop in is likely better.
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      09-23-2020, 09:49 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by AmuroRay View Post
FTP Turbo Inlet Pipe - same sized as stock, do the MSTv2 instead.

GFB DV+ Diverter Valve- requires routine maintenance and more involved install. Do the Turbosmart unit instead.

Dinan Intake - stock intake with drop in is likely better.
All of those are already installed. I have no plans on removing them.
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      09-23-2020, 09:51 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nothingman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by detroitm2 View Post
...I am planning the following:
  • Dorch Stage 2 HPFP
  • Walbro Stage 2 LPFP (needed?)
  • PR Coils
  • 3.5 bar TMAP sensor
  • Flex fuel sensor
  • BM3 Full E85 tune

Is there anything I'm missing here? Is the LPFP required for full E85? Do I need anything additional to support it?

Given that pump fuel E85 has questionable ethanol content, the flex-fuel sensor is a must for me. I want to reliably be able to run E85, and periodically switch to pump fuel without much hassle. I do not want to deal with mixing the fuel as this is a daily driver and track toy combo.
Your current mods look good and I like the direction you're going. I question the PR coils because many tuners I've talked to say they're unnecessary.

I'm also curious about the need for an LPFP upgrade as I'm in the same boat with my big turbo installation. Then if you go with a Walboro stage 2, you'll also likely need a LPFP EKP controller replacement as I've heard the stock unit overheats and can't keep up.
I think stage 2 was the wrong term here. It's the Walbro 450 pump, not the 525. Fuel-It calls it a stage 2.

I was questioning the need for a LPFP, but it's relatively cheap and Chris at Dorch actually recommended that I upgrade it. Particularly if I plan on going to a bigger turbo later.

With the PR coils, they're cheap enough that it couldn't hurt.
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      09-23-2020, 10:44 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by detroitm2 View Post
I think stage 2 was the wrong term here. It's the Walbro 450 pump, not the 525. Fuel-It calls it a stage 2.
What's the difference between the Walbro 450 vs. 525?
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      09-23-2020, 10:56 AM   #22
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What's the difference between the Walbro 450 vs. 525?
https://www.maperformance.com/blogs/...f%20the%20past.
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