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      12-19-2019, 06:22 AM   #8779
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And:

SINGAPORE/BEIJING (Reuters) - China on Thursday unveiled a new list of import tariff exemptions for six chemical and oil products from the United States, days after the world’s two largest economies announced a Phase 1 trade deal.

*The agreement on these products is for one year. Calculated value 14 billion.
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      12-19-2019, 06:33 AM   #8780
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Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
And:

SINGAPORE/BEIJING (Reuters) - China on Thursday unveiled a new list of import tariff exemptions for six chemical and oil products from the United States, days after the world’s two largest economies announced a Phase 1 trade deal.

*The agreement on these products is for one year. Calculated value 14 billion.
Hooray? That could make up for about half of what we've already had to pay US farmers since Trump's little trade war began, so.....

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      12-19-2019, 06:36 AM   #8781
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Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
Hooray? That could make up for about half of what we've already had to pay US farmers since Trump's little trade war began, so.....

We didn't pay anything, it came from the traiff collected which was paid by china who nuke their currency to keep prices the same and eat the tax.
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      12-19-2019, 06:45 AM   #8782
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Hooray? That could make up for about half of what we've already had to pay US farmers since Trump's little trade war began, so.....

O yee of little faith.
You know that it takes some bruising to learn how to fight. We're now in a better position to fight and 4 more years 'should' bring a sense of ceasefire. It is China and I don't trust them for moment but what are the alternatives?
With my broad eyes, I see it as a positive step.
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      12-19-2019, 06:45 AM   #8783
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We didn't pay anything, it came from the traiff collected which was paid by china who nuke their currency to keep prices the same and eat the tax.
Wrong.
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      12-19-2019, 06:49 AM   #8784
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Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
O yee of little faith.
You know that it takes some bruises to learn how to fight. We're now in a better position to fight and 4 more years 'should' bring a sense of ceasefire. It is China and I don't trust them for moment but what are the alternatives?
Yes, I know it takes time. As I have said in multiple threads, we don't know if the end will justify the means. It might. It also might not.

The reality is it's a loss, and a very sizable one - twice the auto bailout cost - for now.

What are the alternatives? I don't know - I'm not a macroeconomist or expert on international trade. You? I assume this administration does have access to those types of subject matter experts, however.
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      12-19-2019, 06:50 AM   #8785
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USCG makes very sizable bust at sea off San Diego. Way to go Coasties! Another home made sub intercepted. Less drugs crossing the border wall, more intercepted at sea. They should just ram them and deep six them but this will do. Talking to friends and family working LE in NY drugs aren’t as readily available as they were.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/massive-dr...ry?id=67803058
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      12-19-2019, 06:56 AM   #8786
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^
The massive drug seizures have spiked. Cocaine, fentanyl and tons of meth.
You have to wonder if there's some 'Trump has to go' flowing through some of our elite communities.
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      12-19-2019, 07:02 AM   #8787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
Yes, I know it takes time. As I have said in multiple threads, we don't know if the end will justify the means. It might. It also might not.

The reality is it's a loss, and a very sizable one - twice the auto bailout cost - for now.

What are the alternatives? I don't know - I'm not a macroeconomist or expert on international trade. You? I assume this administration does have access to those types of subject matter experts, however.
I have as much econ knowledge as a pint of Carlsberg. I hated econ and finc classes. I felt like I was looking at Latin with a bunch of graphs and lines. Marketing was my thing and breezed those. I made it through.


I do know that this seems to be more positive gyrations with big red than I've ever seen.
We'll see.
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      12-19-2019, 08:15 AM   #8788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
Hooray? That could make up for about half of what we've already had to pay US farmers since Trump's little trade war began, so.....

We didn't pay anything, it came from the traiff collected which was paid by china who nuke their currency to keep prices the same and eat the tax.
Wrong. That tariff doesn't magically go to the farmers.
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      12-19-2019, 09:11 AM   #8789
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Wrong. That tariff doesn't magically go to the farmers.
All taxes collected go to the general fund

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-col...ne-11565168400
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      12-19-2019, 10:18 AM   #8790
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Hit

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fed...court-showdown
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      12-19-2019, 10:40 AM   #8791
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What happened to repeal and replace?

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...e_so_easy.html
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      12-19-2019, 10:48 AM   #8792
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      12-19-2019, 10:53 AM   #8793
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Originally Posted by Captain Blood View Post
What happened to repeal and replace?

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...e_so_easy.html
He did by removing the only piece of legislation (which is the tax arguement) to keep aca afloat. Now it unconstitutional and is being struck down by the courts.
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      12-19-2019, 11:02 AM   #8794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
We didn't pay anything, it came from the traiff collected which was paid by china who nuke their currency to keep prices the same and eat the tax.
How do you think tariffs work? Specifically, who do you think pays them?

Tariffs can be useful in some circumstances, not denying that, but "china" didn't pay.

The only "payment" they made was being able to export less...but they didn't pay Trump a dime. The American people on the other hand did pay Trump. Who turned around and helped subsidize the farmers.
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      12-19-2019, 11:19 AM   #8795
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
How do you think tariffs work? Specifically, who do you think pays them?

Tariffs can be useful in some circumstances, not denying that, but "china" didn't pay.

The only "payment" they made was being able to export less...but they didn't pay Trump a dime. The American people on the other hand did pay Trump. Who turned around and helped subsidize the farmers.
I am an American people - where exactly did I pay Trump?
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      12-19-2019, 11:28 AM   #8796
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He did by removing the only piece of legislation (which is the tax arguement) to keep aca afloat. Now it unconstitutional and is being struck down by the courts.
He said he would replace it. His words, not mine. And he had a majority in congress..........
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      12-19-2019, 11:52 AM   #8797
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He said he would replace it. His words, not mine. And he had a majority in congress..........
I fully expect it to be replace during his 2nd term since the courts would strike it down and they can start from scratch instead of writting 6000 pages just to repeal ever provision on the aca and restart. This is a far cleaner and tree friendly method having the courts toss it out.
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      12-19-2019, 11:53 AM   #8798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
How do you think tariffs work? Specifically, who do you think pays them?

Tariffs can be useful in some circumstances, not denying that, but "china" didn't pay.

The only "payment" they made was being able to export less...but they didn't pay Trump a dime. The American people on the other hand did pay Trump. Who turned around and helped subsidize the farmers.
China devalue it currency to keep prices the same so the consumer end we didn't experience any increase in cost, who paid was the chineese people who lost 25% of there buying power.
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      12-19-2019, 12:20 PM   #8799
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
I am an American people - where exactly did I pay Trump?
Depends on whether you bought a tariff'd good or not. If you did, then you paid. Tariffs are taxes paid by the importer of the tariff'd good to the government. That importer may be American or may not. But they generally don't have the margin to just bear the tariff and so they pass it along to the end consumer (americans, like you) in the form of an increased price.

In addition, because of the capitalist society in which we operate, the domestic producers of that good then raise their prices too in order to generate more profit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
China devalue it currency to keep prices the same so the consumer end we didn't experience any increase in cost, who paid was the chineese people who lost 25% of there buying power.
I'm not arguing about the Chinese currency. I don't think devaluation and the government interference is right. But I'm not confident you didn't experience an increase in cost based on how tariffs work, see above.

But hypothetically - let's say that happened - so China lost a percentage of their buying power. How did that result in China paying the US anything (which is what you first postulated). Losing buying power is not the same as the US getting any dollars.

The people who pay are the ones in the home country IF they continue to buy tariff'd goods that are not made domestically. That's the whole point of tariffs. To encourage / protect domestic production to the detriment of foreign production.
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he's Canadian. By international law we all must worship him and all other products of the country.
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      12-19-2019, 12:36 PM   #8800
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
Depends on whether you bought a tariff'd good or not. If you did, then you paid. Tariffs are taxes paid by the importer of the tariff'd good to the government. That importer may be American or may not. But they generally don't have the margin to just bear the tariff and so they pass it along to the end consumer (americans, like you) in the form of an increased price.

In addition, because of the capitalist society in which we operate, the domestic producers of that good then raise their prices too in order to generate more profit.



I'm not arguing about the Chinese currency. I don't think devaluation and the government interference is right. But I'm not confident you didn't experience an increase in cost based on how tariffs work, see above.

But hypothetically - let's say that happened - so China lost a percentage of their buying power. How did that result in China paying the US anything (which is what you first postulated). Losing buying power is not the same as the US getting any dollars.

The people who pay are the ones in the home country IF they continue to buy tariff'd goods that are not made domestically. That's the whole point of tariffs. To encourage / protect domestic production to the detriment of foreign production.
they made everything more expensive for themselves to purchase just to keep the prices the same at the consumer level (our side) due to the fear a slow down in purchases.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49245654

So in short at the point since the prices of most goods was not effected due to the currency devaluement offsetting the tariff in the Chinese people who paid for the tariff as I stated earlier.
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