[Kiddvegas]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Mechanic was digging in, and saw that the spark plug well was damaged and recommended I replace it, and do the OFHG at the same time, since everything will be out (valve cover and intake manifold)
So we are waiting on those parts. Should have it together by next week, so I’ll keep it updated.

What’s the highest the MAF can read? On BM3 it’s 46lb/in but MHD I’ve seen it go higher. 351g/s for me (usually around 34xg/s) and 400g/s on a Pure stage 2 car.
This will give us some idea of additional airflow. I’m hoping for “just” a 10% increase lol. We’ll see.

I’m excited to see! are you going to get it on the dyno? Even 10 percent would be pretty significant.
Is Bob going to do a revision on that tune after some logs ?

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by Kiddvegas

I’m excited to see! are you going to get it on the dyno? Even 10 percent would be pretty significant.
Is Bob going to do a revision on that tune after some logs ?

I'm excited too, I just got some of the part delivered today - I actually had a complete VC replacement (instead of just the gasket - which I have brand new if you need it) but when he started working, noted some additional things we should do while I'm in there (Spark plug well, injector installation kit, OFHG)

Bob has sent me a base map which I'll install once I pick up the car - it's just modifications to the Lift tables, VVT and Fuel, no changes to the boost or timing. I believe once I have a chance to record some logs, we can get further revisions.

I'll dyno it when I have the final revision - but I'm praying for 7% at least, which is what the S55 showed over 6000RPM. I was worth 31whp for that car, I hope it's worth around 25whp+ for us.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Mechanic was digging in, and saw that the spark plug well was damaged and recommended I replace it, and do the OFHG at the same time, since everything will be out (valve cover and intake manifold)
So we are waiting on those parts. Should have it together by next week, so I’ll keep it updated.

What’s the highest the MAF can read? On BM3 it’s 46lb/in but MHD I’ve seen it go higher. 351g/s for me (usually around 34xg/s) and 400g/s on a Pure stage 2 car.
This will give us some idea of additional airflow. I’m hoping for “just” a 10% increase lol. We’ll see.

Maf readings will be the same regardless of tune, because it's just reading off the ecu's live data feed.

What is lb/in? That's not a maf reading, it's sounds like some sort of torque unit.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by F87source

Maf readings will be the same regardless of tune, because it's just reading off the ecu's live data feed.

What is lb/in? That's not a maf reading, it's sounds like some sort of torque unit.

Lb/min - BM3 has a maximum reading of 46 - I’ve seen MHD over 351g/s which is 46.4

[F87source]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Lb/min - BM3 has a maximum reading of 46 - I’ve seen MHD over 351g/s which is 46.4

Where are you getting this info from though? Because if the cars have the same dme software and are not running custom rom flashes (meaning stock ECU logic), then the readings are obtained the same way - via the tool (MHD or bm3) reading a ram address. There's no way one can read more than another (given the cars and the conditions they are run in are absolutely identical - which in and of itself is impossible) because the car dictates the data output.

[AmuroRay]

Find me a BM3 log with the MAF reading higher than 46lb/min

https://datazap.me/u/amuroray/street...g=0&data=17-23

348g/s = 46lb/min

https://datazap.me/u/amuroray/3rd-4t...-19&mark=77-76

351g/s = 46.4lb/min

Edit: 43.4 for the M2 per Zm2

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1765289&page=2

[F87source]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Find me a BM3 log with the MAF reading higher than 46lb/min

https://datazap.me/u/amuroray/street...g=0&data=17-23

348g/s = 46lb/min

https://datazap.me/u/amuroray/3rd-4t...-19&mark=77-76

351g/s = 46.4lb/min

Edit: 43.4 for the M2 per Zm2

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1765289&page=2

Actually I'm thinking you may be right, I think BM3 caps MAF readings to 43.4 lbs/min because the MAF sensor isn't used under load, and because tuning will alter the maf scaling tables to prevent load drops due to a higher than normal MAF reading. I will ask BM3 more about this.


But here is an anomaly:

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=629e...0b4378c3a891d3

This shows 1600 lbs/min of mass air flow on an m2 running PS2. Yes these numbers are likely due to an issue of some sort.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by F87source

Actually I'm thinking you may be right, I think BM3 caps MAF readings to 43.4 lbs/min because the MAF sensor isn't used under load, and because tuning will alter the maf scaling tables to prevent load drops due to a higher than normal MAF reading. I will ask BM3 more about this.


But here is an anomaly:

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=629e...0b4378c3a891d3

This shows 1600 lbs/min of mass air flow on an m2 running PS2. Yes these numbers are likely due to an issue of some sort.

Keep me posted, I'm just curious

[F87source]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Keep me posted, I'm just curious

Will do, I'm severely behind on the things I have to do since I just back to Canada, but it's on the list.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Keep me posted, I'm just curious

Ok so I had a chance to talk to Dzenan today about BM3, and I did bring this up in our discussion. The answer to this is that BM3 isn't limited to a specific number, it is reading and reporting the values as is from the DME (after converting it of course from a raw value, which could be a sensor voltage - but I am not sure). So the limit is likely due to the MAF sensor maxing out and not an imposed limit by BM3, because again the tune doesn't change how the DME reads a maf sensor - unless you have some custom rom logic written to do so. When I asked why MHD reads higher Dzenan mentioned he was unsure why, but it could be down to how the apps were made and small conversion factor differences. The car also switches to speed density (maf sensor free operation, this is how the N54 runs) on full load (WOT) so it doesn't even utilize the MAF sensor when running hard.



Now in regards to BM3 being "boost based tuning only" this is the largest piece of misconception that is put out about BM3 and is absolutely incorrect - even when it comes to their OTS maps.


Like I told you before in the other thread the DME logic on the same ROM version is static and unchanged by every tuning software (unless we are talking about custom rom features with custom DME logic, but even then you would have to change the entire ecu to allow for boost based tuning), tuning software only allows access to the individual tables and enables the tuner to change them. This means BM3 and MHD tune using the DME's predefined logic, and this logic doesn't allow for strictly boost based tuning, it is always going to be load based no matter what. So saying that MHD is better because it is load based and BM3 is boost based is actually misinformation and completely incorrect.

In terms of the OTS maps, BM3's tuning strategy has them manipulate load targets so that they can better control boost pressure and keep it in a more controlled range. It still isn't boost based, it is actually still load based because boost targets will still move around in response to load - which won't happen on a purely boost based tuning approach. The goal with this approach is to keep boost controlled and to keep performance as consistent as possible. Because if you have boost moving around wildly in response to ambient conditions, you can induce heat soak from run to run resulting in inconsistent results.

With custom tunes the choice is up to your tuner, but in no circumstance - even with BM3's custom rom, is the car going to run "boost based" - this is misinformation that for some reason keeps being perpetuated.

[ZM2]

Latest BM3 OTS are definitely not boost target based. Will post up logs of the latest versions of Stg 2+ Multimap soon.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Latest BM3 OTS are definitely not boost target based. Will post up logs of the latest versions of Stg 2+ Multimap soon.

It's impossible to be solely boost based at all, the dme logic simply will not allow it (doesn't support it, so much logic/operating tables is tied to load).

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by F87source

It's impossible to be boost based at all, the dme logic simply will not allow it.

I think where this idea came from is BM3 uses boost target as kind of a ceiling boost level for a map, while the DME/tune fluctuates boost based on other parameters.

The same map on different cars/setups has different outcomes, some can hit the ceiling while others with less efficient mods drift away from the ceiling.

Sound right or wrong?

[F87source]

Originally Posted by ZM2

I think where this idea came from is BM3 uses boost target as kind of a ceiling boost level for a map, while the DME/tune fluctuates boost based on other parameters.

The same map on different cars/setups has different outcomes, some can hit the ceiling while others with less efficient mods drift away from the ceiling.

Sound right or wrong?

I have no idea where it came from, but it isn't correct.

[AmuroRay]

.

[AmuroRay]

This morning, the MILVS went in - he said it wasn't too bad, but he was doing the shim method (using a shim to space out the spring and then almost muscling them in) he did not like it, and said he would have preferred to use the spring tool.

When I did it on the N52 (with help) we also used the shim method. I hope he keeps the old ones so I can send them to Marty. As far as I know, he's out of stock and the used ones can be machined like using a core.

[AmuroRay]

More stuffs - I think people don't have weak HPFPs - just clogged injectors that need to work harder. His attention to detail on these small things is absolutely impressive, and I'm truly grateful. We are working on the exhaust next I think - I had to order the AGA Brake Cable fix for him to do while he was there.

[Kiddvegas]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

More stuffs - I think people don't have weak HPFPs - just clogged injectors that need to work harder. His attention to detail on these small things is absolutely impressive, and I'm truly grateful. We are working on the exhaust next I think - I had to order the AGA Brake Cable fix for him to do while he was there.

Hell ya man, what size exhaust are you going to do again? 3.25” or 3.5” ?

[sqwinny]

Finally. Where are you going to go for your dyno ? I’ve been running these on the n20 since last august and the car on 93 feels a lot better down below 3000 rpm and above 6200 the car “butt dyno” feels to hold the power band a little longer. N20 typically peaks around 5500-5600 for those unfamiliar.

I too need to get on the dyno. Picked up around 12whp on 93 after VVT tweaks just tuning the VVT tables at 18 psi (n20, current turbo setup is around 25psi holding 23.5psi to 7100 as that’s where the TD04-20T maxes flow) and had the lift tables put into BM3 as my tuner asked Dz to put them into the editor to actually be able to use them.

—edit. Save yourself the trouble and buy the tool. Shim technique did not work for me AT ALL—- it’s maybe $100 on Amazon.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by Kiddvegas

Hell ya man, what size exhaust are you going to do again? 3.25” or 3.5” ?

I have a AWE mid pipe - it's only 3". I would have to find someone to fab me up a custom 3.5" and that is actually harder than it sounds.

Originally Posted by sqwinny

Finally. Where are you going to go for your dyno ? I’ve been running these on the n20 since last august and the car on 93 feels a lot better down below 3000 rpm and above 6200 the car “butt dyno” feels to hold the power band a little longer. N20 typically peaks around 5500-5600 for those unfamiliar.

I too need to get on the dyno. Picked up around 12whp on 93 after VVT tweaks just tuning the VVT tables at 18 psi (n20, current turbo setup is around 25psi holding 23.5psi to 7100 as that’s where the TD04-20T maxes flow) and had the lift tables put into BM3 as my tuner asked Dz to put them into the editor to actually be able to use them.

There is a performance shop down the road that works on muscle cars that I plan on taking it back to.

I made 378Whp (387STD correction) with the baseline -
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...39&postcount=7

Did your tuner have to adjuster the boost at all? Is the WGDC any different after install? Bob told me the same about BM3 and the lift tables, they aren't there.

On the N52 turbo car - the MIVLS were good for 23whp at peak and deltas over 35whp. Of course, the N52 is a bit different, including a better flowing head and turbo,

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showp...&postcount=315

[F87source]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

I have a AWE mid pipe - it's only 3". I would have to find someone to fab me up a custom 3.5" and that is actually harder than it sounds.


There is a performance shop down the road that works on muscle cars that I plan on taking it back to.

I made 378Whp (387STD correction) with the baseline -
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...39&postcount=7

Did your tuner have to adjuster the boost at all? Is the WGDC any different after install? Bob told me the same about BM3 and the lift tables, they aren't there.

On the N52 turbo car - the MIVLS were good for 23whp at peak and deltas over 35whp. Of course, the N52 is a bit different, including a better flowing head and turbo,

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showp...&postcount=315

If the tables aren't in the bm3 editor, he could just edit the tables in tuner pro like he would with MHD - and this means he would define the tables himself and therefore if it's available in MHD it'll be available in bm3. Because the tables are coming from the DAMOS (map of the entire ecu) itself not from the tuning solution.

[AmuroRay]

Out with the old - The Chargepipe actually looks nice, but I already have a wrapped MAD unit to use. The intercooler is likely not an upgrade but is free if anyone wants it.