[3t3p]

I'm unlikely to ever do this but the only turbo transplant that takes my fancy is stage 1 for the OEM+ approach, I understand this is much more about top end power.

Then I see HPFP tuned cars stock turbo making 440-450hp.

I've never seen someone do/discuss HPFP + stage 1 turbo.

So what would it be like to tune, drive and what power might it make?

Thanks

[F87source]

Originally Posted by 3t3p

I'm unlikely to ever do this but the only turbo transplant that takes my fancy is stage 1 for the OEM+ approach, I understand this is much more about top end power.

Then I see HPFP tuned cars stock turbo making 440-450hp.

I've never seen someone do/discuss HPFP + stage 1 turbo.

So what would it be like to tune, drive and what power might it make?

Thanks

ZM2 has a really similar setup so likely around 450 whp and up to 500 wtq range.

However with your custom tune you can expect to see zero knock anywhere in the power band, you will have perfect fuel trims, absolutely optimized timing for any fuel you choose and if the tuner is really good optimized timing for any weather conditions. Your power delivery will be better than OEM and any it's maps, and afrs can be set to richer settings than it's maps meaning cooler egts and a cooler engine. Fuel trims will also be set perfectly so you don't have crazy fluctuations if you decide to run an e mix. The entire experience will be better than any it's map will ever be able to deliver if you get a good tuner, despite either the same or a bit higher power output. Look at what cookiesowns was able to do on his m2 on 91 octane California gas, zero timing pulls meaning no knock yet more power output than stock by a fair bit. No ots map can do that.

[ZM2]

I went this path bc there’s no way to cool a full Stage 2/2+ turbo setup well enough on an OG M2 and our air to air intercooling on track.

If you hit 440+whp with the stock turbo and the new Stg 2+ maps, you will quickly drop to 350-375whp above 6k. So, you shift earlier, or get a Stage 1 turbo (VTT or Dinan) which will keep spool same as stock and whp 400+ to redline.

The upper RPMs still don’t hold anything like a PS2, but it’s a riot around town with the fast spool (500+ wftlbs @ 2500rpm on my car) and isn’t too much power to keep cool on track on a hot summer day (we hope, with E50!).

[AmuroRay]

Stage 1 Turbos are very similar to the stock turbo, but do have a slightly better top end, so the powerband will be a little more linear. Peak numbers will be similar, but expect to make a little more power near redline.

@ZM2 is pretty much spot on.

[3t3p]

Thanks guys for input.

Seems like an OEM plus approach for those not wanting 500+hp. Faster spool and response definitely a bonus as well as less stress to the engine even if it is robust.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by 3t3p

Thanks guys for input.

Seems like an OEM plus approach for those not wanting 500+hp. Faster spool and response definitely a bonus as well as less stress to the engine even if it is robust.

Yup exactly how I see it OEM+.

However the only thing that it benefits in terms of engine stress is lower iats because the compressor is more efficient meaning lower iats. However back pressure and egts will get worse because you'll have more air flow on the stock exhaust manifold and the exhaust side of the stage 1 turbos are stock. So more air flowing through the same size turbine. It'll probably be fine but I would've preferred to see a bigger exhaust side turbine and a bigger manifold. Let's see how franken turbo/shuenk's n55+ will do, because it's essentially a stage 1.5 turbo (bigger than stage 1 smaller than stage 2) with an upgraded exhaust manifold. That would eh the perfect turbo for track guys imo. Since an efr series would be over kill for the amount of power we can make and cool effectively on track.

[AmuroRay]

Honestly, I toyed with a SG1 turbo, but at that point, you might as well do a stage 2, which can make 450whp on a stock fuel pump and have a powerband that peaks near redline like a real M car - and that's more than plenty.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Honestly, I toyed with a SG1 turbo, but at that point, you might as well do a stage 2, which can make 450whp on a stock fuel pump and have a powerband that peaks near redline like a real M car - and that's more than plenty.

That's why the stage 1.5 from franken turbo/shuenk is so appealing. It should have the ability to hold power to redline, and make up to 500 whp. Plus the turbo manifold is what makes it great no more trying to force a crap ton of exhaust gasses through a tiny little hole like the stock turbo, and any turbos using the stock frame.

[cookiesowns]

Originally Posted by F87source

That's why the stage 1.5 from franken turbo/shuenk is so appealing. It should have the ability to hold power to redline, and make up to 500 whp. Plus the turbo manifold is what makes it great no more trying to force a crap ton of exhaust gasses through a tiny little hole like the stock turbo, and any turbos using the stock frame.

Or just be like -Eidos and run a EFR7670 and make 650+ on full kill, or have a turbo that spools at 3000 that's stock like.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by cookiesowns

Or just be like -Eidos and run a EFR7670 and make 650+ on full kill, or have a turbo that spools at 3000 that's stock like.

Well if you are on the track alot an efr is overkill because you will never be able to cool 650 whp (unless you go full race car on cooling) let alone barely cool 450 whp so it's wasted money that could go to things that are much more important like brakes.

So if the n55+ can spool by 3k and the prototypes show it can (they are trying to make it spool even faster), and support up to 500 whp (which it is designed for but I personally only want around 400 whp) then I rather spend sub $2k for a turbo with an aftermarket manifold and put the savings towards AP racing brakes. Or I would rather buy a nice set of JRZ's or even work on the suspension links (toe arms, thrust arms, lower control arms, and the full 8 piece rear suspension kit).



The only time an efr really appeals to me is if I was going full race car, deleted my ac and hacked apart the front end to put a huge radiator to cool it. Or if I was a drag/half mile racer. So it depends on what the end user wants.

[3t3p]

What do you mean designed for 500hp? Is there a source for that first time hearing it thanks.

I like lower spool of the M2, previous car spooled at around 3k and it was really fun but lower torque is great and surprises passengers more.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by 3t3p

What do you mean designed for 500hp? Is there a source for that first time hearing it thanks.

I like lower spool of the M2, previous car spooled at around 3k and it was really fun but lower torque is great and surprises passengers more.

the frankenturbo/shuenk n55+ turbo is designed for those power levels.

[3t3p]

Ah thought you meant N55 lol