[///Driver]

Originally Posted by Moflow

I strongly suspect ryem has been spoiled by extremely expensive and nice cars (read: Porsche owner.)

I think you are right. Here is a guy who loves the 6MT over DCT.

https://youtu.be/LnU29c7USCA

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Hithere

I just came across this video. He doesn't sound too impressed with the manual transmission. He said it was 'rubbery' and 'toy-like' - no doubt personal opinions differ, but is that what some folks here referred to as something that happens while running in the gearbox? Will it change (improve) over time?

The reviewer also said the clutch only engages toward the top (just before releasing the clutch completely) - I recall someone in this thread recommended a rubber stopper for the clutch to shorten the travel. I am assuming that clutch travel in the first say 1/3rd does nothing? And in the second 1/3rd of the travel, it may move the friction material inside the clutch close together? And only in the last 1/3rd of letting out the clutch, it starts to bite? So by placing a rubber stopper under the clutch to erase the bottom 1/3rd of the travel does no harm - am I correct in my understanding? I don't want to place a rubber stopper and later realise the clutch was slipping slightly and heating up or wearing out quicker.

Please advance the video to 7:50 mark.

P.S. Can anyone inform me how I can embed the youtube video on this forum please?

He's got a Porsche to compare the m2 mt with so that doesn't help I'm sure.

[///Driver]

My Test Drive

I went on a test drive in an M2 Competition today. In the whole country of Kangaroos and Koalas, there is only one M2 demo car with a manual transmission. Unfortunately, it is located in another state. I thought about flying over, but the sensible part of my brain won the argument. So I ended up testing the DCT model.

I drive out of the dealership carpark with a level of excitement akin to a child at Christmas. I switch the DCT into Sports mode. It seems like good, middle ground, choice - somewhere between the Grandpa mode and I-am-the-Stig mode.

After all the feedback I received here, I wanted to experience for myself how the automatic mode operated. I understand that all sequential gearboxes must predict the future - will it be an upshift or downshift next? If the DCT predicts accurately, all is good in the world. If the prediction is wrong, a slightly longer shift time.

I perform a u-turn and accelerate moderately. The M2 revs out quickly and shifts into 2nd gear. Once I reach the speed of 35mph (56kph), I back off the accelerator to coast. Instead of shifting up into 3rd, like all the other automatic transmissions I have driven, it hangs in 2nd gear. Thinking, it's the Sports mode, I switch to Comfort mode and try again. It isn't any better. I think the DCT gets confused if I accelerate and then back off. In frustration, I shift up manually.

I stay in the manual mode but switch back to Sports mode. With the sales guy in the car, I have to behave myself. I downshift a gear. The rev gauge displays north of 3,000rpm, so I drop the hammer. The backend wiggles a little and the M2 launches. I'm smiling on the inside. Actually, I'm yelling "Ehh-Ha!" without making a sound. I try changing gears by the sound of the engine, but as I am unfamiliar with the acoustics. I end up upshifting too early, some of the time.

In a quiet side street, I was able to test the 1st gear to reverse and back to 1st again. I thought the DCT shifted reasonably quickly. I can't imagine changing quicker in a manual transmission. Satisfied that I would be able to perform a 3-point turn, I get back on the road.

The traditional automatic transmission annoys me because they wouldn't shift when I wanted them to change. They are either disobedient or slow - often both.

I'm in 4th gear on a quiet road with no traffic. I decide that this is a perfect time to test downshifting. I pull on the -ve paddle and nothing happens for an eternity. It was horrible! I try again, and the result is the same. I can initiate the downshift and say, "0ne-Mississippi" before the actual gear changes. I'm about to take the car back to the dealership when I remember the DriveLogic button located behind the DCT. I press it twice - 3 bars appear next to the gear indicator. Now the gear shifts up and down as expected. Much better!

I find my way to the highway. I turn right and rocket up the on-ramp. The 1st gear passes 6,000rpm, but I can't upshift. The +ve paddle has rotated around the steering wheel. I reach for the floor shifter and pull on it. The gearbox upshift in a blink of an eye. I like this! It is growing on me. I upshift as the revs approach the redline. It is a lot of fun! I repeat until we are cruising in 7th gear at 70mph (110kph).

Knowing that the 7-speed DCT has a taller gearing than the 6-speed manual transmission, I downshift into 6th gear and maintain the velocity. I listen out for the change in engine sound. It is a little louder, but not bad. I downshift into 5th gear, and engine noise increases slightly. For the next few miles, I shift between 5th, 6th and 7th, and back down again. The majority of the cabin noise is from the contact patch of the bloody wide tyres and the wind noise. I don't think the 6th vs 7th gear made much of a difference.

Satisfied that I know which transmission I want in my new car, I drive back to the dealership. It takes about 2 hours to finalise the deal. I pay the deposit, and now the waiting game begins. The estimated delivery date of Hockenheim Silver M2 Competition is late April.

Thank you, everyone, for your advice and suggestions in helping me decide on the transmission.

Update:

Originally Posted by Hithere

I did choose the manual transmission.

[BMWF87Melb]

Originally Posted by Hithere

My Test Drive
Satisfied that I know which transmission I want in my new car, I drive back to the dealership. It takes about 2 hours to finalise the deal. I pay the deposit, and the waiting game begins. The estimated delivery date of Hockenheim Silver M2 Competition is late April.

it's the manual right??

[JCZ5]

Lol great write up OP. Very descriptive, however, after all that, it was unclear what is your "right" transmission...

[av.7447]

Originally Posted by Hithere

Satisfied that I know which transmission I want in my new car, I drive back to the dealership. It takes about 2 hours to finalise the deal. I pay the deposit, and now the waiting game begins. The estimated delivery date of Hockenheim Silver M2 Competition is late April.
Thank you, everyone, for your advice and suggestions in helping me decide on the transmission.

So which one did you choose? )))) I think DCT makes people lazy... it’s definitely easier to drive fast on the track with a DCT... Either way, manual is faster(considering you know how to handle it), lighter, gets better gas mileage and is a lot more fun... also it is free, so makes the choice kind of simple, no? ��

[M2Cmtl]

In Canada DCT is 3900$ + 15% tax so it makes the choice easier. The DCT is really nice but I would probably have gotten an RS3 or something like that if I wanted auto. If BMW sold the M340i wagon over here, I would have strongly considered it.

[Conissah]

Originally Posted by Hithere

My Test Drive

I went on a test drive in an M2 Competition today. In the whole country of Kangaroos and Koalas, there is only one M2 demo car with a manual transmission. Unfortunately, it is located in another state. I thought about flying over, but the sensible part of my brain won the argument. So I ended up testing the DCT model.

Satisfied that I know which transmission I want in my new car, I drive back to the dealership. It takes about 2 hours to finalise the deal. I pay the deposit, and now the waiting game begins. The estimated delivery date of Hockenheim Silver M2 Competition is late April.

Thank you, everyone, for your advice and suggestions in helping me decide on the transmission.

So what transmission did you go with??

Originally Posted by Hithere

The reviewer also said the clutch only engages toward the top (just before releasing the clutch completely) - I recall someone in this thread recommended a rubber stopper for the clutch to shorten the travel. I am assuming that clutch travel in the first say 1/3rd does nothing? And in the second 1/3rd of the travel, it may move the friction material inside the clutch close together? And only in the last 1/3rd of letting out the clutch, it starts to bite? So by placing a rubber stopper under the clutch to erase the bottom 1/3rd of the travel does no harm - am I correct in my understanding? I don't want to place a rubber stopper and later realise the clutch was slipping slightly and heating up or wearing out quicker.

And yes, you are correct. The bottom 1/3 does nothing, and makes it somewhat difficult to predict / familiarize yourself with the friction point. The BMS clutch stop is "adjustable" in the sense that you can change the thickness of it. It comes with 4 rings, probably ~20cm overall. I installed mine with all 4, started the car, and realized the clutch wasn't fully disengaging. So I shut it off, pulled the clutch stop out, took a ring off (making it ~15cm or so), put it back in, and tested the clutch once more. Much better. Clutch doesn't go to the floor, friction point is a maybe a couple mill off the clutch stop, makes driving (at least for me) much more enjoyable and smooth. I was no longer "struggling" to get a smooth 1-2 shift in.

**BTW, you don't need to remove any panels to install the clutch stop. Lay down in the floor board and look up behind the clutch (between the rubber cutout). You will see a small white rubber nipple, that's the stock clutch stop. Just pull it out, and slide the BMS one in place. Takes all of 30 seconds, once you see where it is located.

[SEAT TIME RULES]

Get the UCP...It solves this...My pedal now engages right off the floor w/o using a mickey mouse Clutch Stop....

[Conissah]

Originally Posted by SEAT TIME RULES

Get the UCP...It solves this...My pedal now engages right off the floor w/o using a mickey mouse Clutch Stop....

I mean sure, but $300 is a hell of a lot more commitment than $10. Plus the actual clutch stop piece looks almost identical.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by SEAT TIME RULES

Get the UCP...It solves this...My pedal now engages right off the floor w/o using a mickey mouse Clutch Stop....

There is also the option to used the slave cylinder from the E-Series, which doesn't contain a clutch stop built in, in the F-Series BMWs.

Not that I have a problem with shifting but I can't wait until the springtime so I can try this mod to discern the difference, without the risk of wearing out the synchronizers.


*Newer* CDV Delete Method (Easier Way!) https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1666477

[Poochie]

And to the OP, if you picked the DCT, you always wanted one.

No one gives up a manual because the DCT is better.

Yes, the DCT is more effective but the manual is more enjoyable.

Why do thing there is a "manual" mode in the DCT; there is no "auto" mode in a manual.

But I'm not even trying to crap on your decision, enjoy the car, they're both fast and fun, nonetheless.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Hithere

My Test Drive

I went on a test drive in an M2 Competition today. In the whole country of Kangaroos and Koalas, there is only one M2 demo car with a manual transmission. Unfortunately, it is located in another state. I thought about flying over, but the sensible part of my brain won the argument. So I ended up testing the DCT model.

I drive out of the dealership carpark with a level of excitement akin to a child at Christmas. I switch the DCT into Sports mode. It seems like good, middle ground, choice - somewhere between the Grandpa mode and I-am-the-Stig mode.

After all the feedback I received here, I wanted to experience for myself how the automatic mode operated. I understand that all sequential gearboxes must predict the future - will it be an upshift or downshift next? If the DCT predicts accurately, all is good in the world. If the prediction is wrong, a slightly longer shift time.

I perform a u-turn and accelerate moderately. The M2 revs out quickly and shifts into 2nd gear. Once I reach the speed of 35mph (56kph), I back off the accelerator to coast. Instead of shifting up into 3rd, like all the other automatic transmissions I have driven, it hangs in 2nd gear. Thinking, it's the Sports mode, I switch to Comfort mode and try again. It isn't any better. I think the DCT gets confused if I accelerate and then back off. In frustration, I shift up manually.

I stay in the manual mode but switch back to Sports mode. With the sales guy in the car, I have to behave myself. I downshift a gear. The rev gauge displays north of 3,000rpm, so I drop the hammer. The backend wiggles a little and the M2 launches. I'm smiling on the inside. Actually, I'm yelling "Ehh-Ha!" without making a sound. I try changing gears by the sound of the engine, but as I am unfamiliar with the acoustics. I end up upshifting too early, some of the time.

In a quiet side street, I was able to test the 1st gear to reverse and back to 1st again. I thought the DCT shifted reasonably quickly. I can't imagine changing quicker in a manual transmission. Satisfied that I would be able to perform a 3-point turn, I get back on the road.

The traditional automatic transmission annoys me because they wouldn't shift when I wanted them to change. They are either disobedient or slow - often both.

I'm in 4th gear on a quiet road with no traffic. I decide that this is a perfect time to test downshifting. I pull on the -ve paddle and nothing happens for an eternity. It was horrible! I try again, and the result is the same. I can initiate the downshift and say, "0ne-Mississippi" before the actual gear changes. I'm about to take the car back to the dealership when I remember the DriveLogic button located behind the DCT. I press it twice - 3 bars appear next to the gear indicator. Now the gear shifts up and down as expected. Much better!

I find my way to the highway. I turn right and rocket up the on-ramp. The 1st gear passes 6,000rpm, but I can't upshift. The +ve paddle has rotated around the steering wheel. I reach for the floor shifter and pull on it. The gearbox upshift in a blink of an eye. I like this! It is growing on me. I upshift as the revs approach the redline. It is a lot of fun! I repeat until we are cruising in 7th gear at 70mph (110kph).

Knowing that the 7-speed DCT has a taller gearing than the 6-speed manual transmission, I downshift into 6th gear and maintain the velocity. I listen out for the change in engine sound. It is a little louder, but not bad. I downshift into 5th gear, and engine noise increases slightly. For the next few miles, I shift between 5th, 6th and 7th, and back down again. The majority of the cabin noise is from the contact patch of the bloody wide tyres and the wind noise. I don't think the 6th vs 7th gear made much of a difference.

Satisfied that I know which transmission I want in my new car, I drive back to the dealership. It takes about 2 hours to finalise the deal. I pay the deposit, and now the waiting game begins. The estimated delivery date of Hockenheim Silver M2 Competition is late April.

Thank you, everyone, for your advice and suggestions in helping me decide on the transmission.

Still seems like your should drive and m3 it m4 mt car to be sure.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Poochie

And to the OP, if you picked the DCT, you always wanted one.

No one gives up a manual because the DCT is better.

Yes, the DCT is more effective but the manual is more enjoyable.

Why do thing there is a "manual" mode in the DCT; there is no "auto" mode in a manual.

But I'm not even trying to crap on your decision, enjoy the car, they're both fast and fun, nonetheless.

He bought the MT I'm pretty sure as he was testing what 6th great sounded like on the highway.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by akkando

He bought the MT I'm pretty sure as he was testing what 6th great sounded like on the highway.

Oh, my bad, I guess I misunderstood what he said; it sounded like he committed to ordering the DCT after driving it.

That's what I get for skimming through Bimmerpost, at the stop lights

[///Driver]

Sorry about the tease... I couldn't help myself.

I did choose the manual transmission.

The DCT might have worked for me IF I could have driven it like a regular automatic at times. The moment M2 moved off the set of lights (gently) with other cars in full automatic mode, it clunked and jerked forward (when the clutch engaged?). I have read that DCT can do that if I didn't let the car roll forward a bit before applying the gas. I didn't want to re-learn how to drive. However, it did behave itself in manual mode. So, I would classify DCT as a clutch-less manual transmission in its mannerism. If I owned DCT M2C, I would have to ignore the automatic mode even existed.

Combine that with unexpected behaviours during the test drive, DCT was discounted as a viable option for me.

I have visited 3 dealerships, but no one had a manual transmission M car - not just M2 but M3 or M4 or other. I even asked about a regular 2-series in manual transmission but none in stock. I have never purchased a car without testing the transmission, as much as the car itself - but there is the first time for everything!

I laughed out loud when I read the sales contract - 'Factory Option: S0Z9A Delete automatic transmission'.

I will post my impression of the manual transmission - nothing you guys don't already know, but it might help another newbie. That will be in April or May 2020.

Thanks again, everyone! All your comments, pro-DCT and pro-6MT, all helped me heaps.

[SEAT TIME RULES]

Originally Posted by Conissah

I mean sure, but $300 is a hell of a lot more commitment than $10. Plus the actual clutch stop piece looks almost identical.

The UCP is expensive, but 100% safe vs the Clutch Stop which might not be...

http://www.ultimateclutchpedal.com/


I know this because I ran a clutch stop on my E36M3 for many years.

My 1/2 syncro was toast after lots of auto x and track work. I had to swap in another used unit. I can't think of any other add on that would have caused the tranny to act up....

So I will never use one again..

[Conissah]

Originally Posted by SEAT TIME RULES

The UCP is expensive, but 100% safe vs the Clutch Stop which might not be...

http://www.ultimateclutchpedal.com/


I know this because I ran a clutch stop on my E36M3 for many years.

My 1/2 syncro was toast after lots of auto x and track work. I had to swap in another used unit. I can't think of any other add on that would have caused the tranny to act up....

So I will never use one again..

If the UCP is using a thicker clutch stop in conjuction with the a new pedal, and you're comfortable with it from a safety standpoint, then why not just a thicker clutch stop alone? I'm not doubting you or trying to start an argument, but the only way I can see the clutch stop being a problem is if it's too thick, and therefore the clutch isn't fully disengaging when the pedal is depressed. This would explain the synchro issue, since if the clutch is still partially engaged, there will be a lot of stress & wear on gear changes due to the load on the current gear.

[///Driver]

Originally Posted by f31mtl

In Canada DCT is 3900$ + 15% tax so it makes the choice easier. The DCT is really nice but I would probably have gotten an RS3 or something like that if I wanted auto. If BMW sold the M340i wagon over here, I would have strongly considered it.

Wow! CAD$3,900+ is a lot to pay. Maybe, we don't get such a bad deal in the land of down under as I thought. The DCT is standard fitment, and the 6MT is a no-cost option.

I did think about the RS3 briefly, but like many AWD cars, they are prone to understeer. But the real deal-breaker for me was their reputation (after sales support). They still sell plenty of cars to average punters, but not many people go back for the 2nd round. And car forums like this are valuable resources for folks who research before buying goods. If we review hotels on TripAdvisor for $150, it makes sense to ask past and present owners.

[Luongo]

I have seen many, many people who regret buying a DCT (or automatic) but not a single person who regrets buying a manual.

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by Hithere

Wow! CAD$3,900+ is a lot to pay. Maybe, we don't get such a bad deal in the land of down under as I thought. The DCT is standard fitment, and the 6MT is a no-cost option.

Congrats on ordering the car! I don't think you'll be disappointed with the choice you made, plus your car is going to be incredibly rare over there, since most people down under appear to be just going with the DCT.

Incidentally, that DCT transmission is pretty expensive here in the states as well at $2900 USD. But quite frankly, i would've paid more for a manual if i had to.

Anyway, good luck with the waiting, i'm guessing now you'll be off to obsessively watch every single search result for "M2 Competition" in YouTube. I know I did!

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by Luongo

I have seen many, many people who regret buying a DCT (or automatic) but not a single person who regrets buying a manual.

+1