[Sultan hamdi]

Hello guys, I know most of you will think that I am crazy but I have lost my mind and will automatically advise me to buy an s55 F87 M2 instead of what I am thinking about so I’ve been searching around and looking around on the Internet. I have some minor background with turbo charging in different cars some air to air intercooled some water cold so the idea in general is kind of understood to my perspective now what I’ve been thinking ofis creating an air to water intercooler system for my Bmw M2 n 55 engine I will post a couple of pictures from intercooler systems that I think that might work for this crazy project. I would like to know your feedback and if anybody has tried this before I searched around the forum and the Internet, but with no luck I guess no one is as crazy as I am to think of this.
So these are barrel types intercoolers or should I call them charge coolers there are many dimensions and sizes to these battle type charge. Coolers thing is if I’m going to do this project what will I need to be able to control both the water pump and the fans for the Heat exchanger and do you think that it is doable let me know I’m sure I will get a lot of heat for this thread, but hey, why not give it a Shot and ask the experts?

[-Eidos]

Originally Posted by Sultan hamdi

Hello guys, I know most of you will think that I am crazy but I have lost my mind and will automatically advise me to buy an s55 F87 M2 instead of what I am thinking about so I’ve been searching around and looking around on the Internet. I have some minor background with turbo charging in different cars some air to air intercooled some water cold so the idea in general is kind of understood to my perspective now what I’ve been thinking ofis creating an air to water intercooler system for my Bmw M2 n 55 engine I will post a couple of pictures from intercooler systems that I think that might work for this crazy project. I would like to know your feedback and if anybody has tried this before I searched around the forum and the Internet, but with no luck I guess no one is as crazy as I am to think of this.
So these are barrel types intercoolers or should I call them charge coolers there are many dimensions and sizes to these battle type charge. Coolers thing is if I’m going to do this project what will I need to be able to control both the water pump and the fans for the Heat exchanger and do you think that it is doable let me know I’m sure I will get a lot of heat for this thread, but hey, why not give it a Shot and ask the experts?

We support crazy here

I think there are a few people that have retrofitted the S55 A2W cooler on the N55 (E-series and F-series), so it's definitely possible, but pretty involved.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Sultan hamdi

Hello guys, I know most of you will think that I am crazy but I have lost my mind and will automatically advise me to buy an s55 F87 M2 instead of what I am thinking about so I’ve been searching around and looking around on the Internet. I have some minor background with turbo charging in different cars some air to air intercooled some water cold so the idea in general is kind of understood to my perspective now what I’ve been thinking ofis creating an air to water intercooler system for my Bmw M2 n 55 engine I will post a couple of pictures from intercooler systems that I think that might work for this crazy project. I would like to know your feedback and if anybody has tried this before I searched around the forum and the Internet, but with no luck I guess no one is as crazy as I am to think of this.
So these are barrel types intercoolers or should I call them charge coolers there are many dimensions and sizes to these battle type charge. Coolers thing is if I’m going to do this project what will I need to be able to control both the water pump and the fans for the Heat exchanger and do you think that it is doable let me know I’m sure I will get a lot of heat for this thread, but hey, why not give it a Shot and ask the experts?

are you completely replacing the stock intercooler with this? If so I don't think the heat exchanger has enough surface area to be effective. The stock S55 heat exchanger is massive (multiple times larger than above) and the upgraded ones are even larger, so I don't think this size of heat exchanger is going to be enough. In terms of the barrel intercooler, it is interesting but where would you put it?


IMO I would just retrofit the S55 system because for the most part it is plug and play and that would be alot easier to install.

[Kiddvegas]

Originally Posted by Sultan hamdi

Hello guys, I know most of you will think that I am crazy but I have lost my mind and will automatically advise me to buy an s55 F87 M2 instead of what I am thinking about so I’ve been searching around and looking around on the Internet. I have some minor background with turbo charging in different cars some air to air intercooled some water cold so the idea in general is kind of understood to my perspective now what I’ve been thinking ofis creating an air to water intercooler system for my Bmw M2 n 55 engine I will post a couple of pictures from intercooler systems that I think that might work for this crazy project. I would like to know your feedback and if anybody has tried this before I searched around the forum and the Internet, but with no luck I guess no one is as crazy as I am to think of this.
So these are barrel types intercoolers or should I call them charge coolers there are many dimensions and sizes to these battle type charge. Coolers thing is if I’m going to do this project what will I need to be able to control both the water pump and the fans for the Heat exchanger and do you think that it is doable let me know I’m sure I will get a lot of heat for this thread, but hey, why not give it a Shot and ask the experts?

One of the moderators on the N55 Facebook group did the S55 air to water swap on his E92 running a Shuenk N55+. Not sure what the final verdict was on performance, but he said the juice wasn’t worth the squeeze financially.

[Sultan hamdi]

Thanks for coming back to me if somebody has the link for the N 55 with the S 55 cooler system please hook me up with it maybe it is a step in the right direction on regards to the Barrel style cooler I will be putting it just before the throttle body in place of the charge pipe or that’s the idea so far and in front I’ll be removing the air to air intercooler and placing a large heat exchanger or some cold radiator for the cooling and the dispensing of the heat also, I might be running a water tank in the back with ice if necessary these are still ideas I would like to see that project that was done it mighthelp me a lot. If you have it please post it here. Thanks.

[F87source]

You could even consider water injection before going with an air to water intercooler, it is a bit more financially achievable as well.

[ThreeStripes]

Simpsons did it.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1692132&page=4

[timchump]

i have no idea if its doable but if you are successful can you consider making a couple more kits please

id love a charge cooled OG m2 doesn't get much better imho

good luck

[AmuroRay]

I think water injection would be easier and more fruitful - as would adding the biggest and best intercooler you can.

I'm not sure why this side of the forum, which is more track focused, is so adverse to using more track focused parts...

[ThreeStripes]

Water injection specifically represents complexity and risk that run contrary to what you want in a track car.

Not saying it can’t work, but it’s my assessment of why you don’t see it in the paddock more.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by ThreeStripes

Water injection specifically represents complexity and risk that run contrary to what you want in a track car.

Not saying it can’t work, but it’s my assessment of why you don’t see it in the paddock more.

Not really.

If you run pure distilled water then it won't require tuning as it's purely for iat suppression and some knock suppression (cools hot spots in the combustion chamber). So as long as you don't time more aggressively for the cooler iats and knock suppression then it also means if it fails on track your car won't limp mode because it'll just see a higher iat and respond accordingly - i.e. go back to how it was before you added water injection which if you tuned appropriately means you won't even be pulling timing.


The only reason why water meth injection has a bad rep is because people use absolutely garbage systems. Imo anything not aquamist is garbage. There are some exceptions but imo nothing is the full meal deal like aquamist - some have good controller but bad hardware, some have ok hardware but bad controllers. Some allow mix and match setups but imo it still doesn't fully match Aquamist because imo no one does the flow sensor as good as Aquamist - and they no longer sell that standalone. Aquamist has the best hardware I have ever seen (fittings and nozzles) and an excellent controller strategy. I just wish they had canbus integration for even more tuning flexibility.

[ThreeStripes]

There are 0 documented issues with BMWs use of it on the M4 GTS, so yeah truly a mystery why it’s not more prominent. I mean 0 downside and all upside. Weird.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by ThreeStripes

There are 0 documented issues with BMWs use of it on the M4 GTS, so yeah truly a mystery why it’s not more prominent. I mean 0 downside and all upside. Weird.

Oems always use good quality parts so that's why they don't have reliability issues. The same cannot be said for all enthusiasts.

I think the reason why it's not used more in motorsport is because:

1) it relies on a consumable (water), which adds weight to the car and also runs out too quickly for endurance racing. It's ok for short stints or time attack but not for long races.

2) it might be banned depending on category.

3) for enthusiasts it's likely because they don't look at water injection for cooling they look at it for octane delivery so it's a lot riskier. It's also not cheap and as a result what I tend to see is people buy absolutely garbage cheapo kits and have terrible results, and that creates a bad stigma around water injection.

[ThreeStripes]

Originally Posted by F87source

Oems always use good quality parts so that's why they don't have reliability issues.

I was being a sarcastic twit. The BMW setup is plagued with issues.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by ThreeStripes

I was being a sarcastic twit. The BMW setup is plagued with issues.

Interesting, I haven't really read up on it. I thought OEM systems would be decent, but it appears not.

In terms of Aquamist I've never really seen any issues with it, they're generally as reliable as a normal fuel setup because they use top notch parts. Even their solenoid isn't a solenoid, it's a fast acting valve that acts like a fuel injector, so it's not some slow valve that just opens and closes.

[AmuroRay]

What about an intercooler sprayer?

[F87source]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

What about an intercooler sprayer?

I don't think that's as efficent, because you have to cool the intercooler surface which in turn has to cool the air, and that means a loss of efficency. So while it will help, injecting water directly into the charged air stream is more effective and it will also get into the cylinders as well (as water vapor/steam) and that should lower combustion cylinder temps and reduce knock, you also steam clean the valves too preventing carbon build up. So you get more benefits from injecting.

The only con is if you inject you should have a really good system - aquamist. If you spray the intercooler you can literally get some junk system and really don't even need a solenoid/FAV, you just need a check valve and a means to turn on and off the pump - maybe via a hobbs switch.

[Sultan hamdi]

Thank you guys I am Considering water injection, but like many said it’s for short periods I made a concentrate on Hillclimb, Time Attack and autocross races so a water to air. I think is a better option.

This is what I have Seen and The Track chat that you linked me to I will try to contact the gentleman to see what information I can get from him but if somebody knows personally and can have me contact him or have him contact me that would be really awesome. Thanks gentleman

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Sultan hamdi

Thank you guys I am Considering water injection, but like many said it’s for short periods I made a concentrate on Hillclimb, Time Attack and autocross races so a water to air. I think is a better option.

This is what I have Seen and The Track chat that you linked me to I will try to contact the gentleman to see what information I can get from him but if somebody knows personally and can have me contact him or have him contact me that would be really awesome. Thanks gentleman

How long are your track sessions? Because with water injection you don't spray a massive volume of water and you're not always spraying either - and when you're spraying it isn't full duty cycle, it is pwm'ed based on injector duty cycle, boost, rpm etc (well atleast this is the case with a smart controller like aquamist), so with a large capacity tank you should be able to last well over 30 minutes with ease. If you're willing to go with a really large tank like a 10L tank - there is a good chance you can make it last as long as your fuel tank normally lasts.

So technically it is only for short stints if you are spraying large volumes of fluid or using a really small tank.

[Kikuchiyo]

This discussion reminds me of Mitsubishi Evo equipped with IC water spray fron the factory.
It had AUTO and MANUAL modes. I wondered who could press a button on the center console at the exit of each corner.
On the other hand, the condition to get the system work in the AUTO mode was so tough that they said it was seldom activated. In fact no refilling of a wayer tank was needed for many years. There was a after market controller which enabled modification of the condition to be more practical.

I saw some people relocate windshield washer nozzles around an IC. I thought it was the most efficient way of on demand cooling of IC.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Kikuchiyo

This discussion reminds me of Mitsubishi Evo equipped with IC water spray fron the factory.
It had AUTO and MANUAL modes. I wondered who could press a button on the center console at the exit of each corner.
On the other hand, the condition to get the system work in the AUTO mode was so tough that they said it was seldom activated. In fact no refilling of a wayer tank was needed for many years. There was a after market controller which enabled modification of the condition to be more practical.

I saw some people relocate windshield washer nozzles around an IC. I thought it was the most efficient way of on demand cooling of IC.

Yeah I saw that too, and in particular on the 22B sti, and the S209 STI.

I've also seen people repurpose the windshield washer pump to spray the intercooler as well, but I don't think those pumps are meant for prolonged use so that isn't going to be good.

[lax01]

haha good thread...lots of great info /s