[tallshortguy]

This is by far the least optionable car BMW has in the states.

[katsooba]

did anybody notice it runs a 245 tire on a 9" front rim and a 265 on a 9" rear rim?
why not make it as the 1M? 9/10" rims ?
bummer

by the way, the new M2 is priced 130,000$ here in Israel!

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by XRAVE

I ran the numbers either on this thread or another one. The ultimate deciding factor should be whether or not you plan on keeping this car longer than 36 months.

Over 36 month lease, fully loaded M2 with no discount off MSRP, you'll be looking at 30k in payments. In that same time period you would have paid 42k in financing. I know this car will hold its value better than a 235i but even so an M3 doesn't hold it that high. You would need 12k in positive equity.

It's not that lease rates that are bad but the discount off MSRP. If you can find a dealer that will discount at least 5%, you should be able to get a great lease. But without the discount you'll be paying the same as an M3 with an MSRP of 70k.

On a 57k M2, if you get not discount off MSRP, lease would be 860 a month with 0 due at signing. A 70k M3 would be identical in terms of a lease if you can get 7% off MSRP.

I dont see how you could be MUCH lower than the lease rate. Even with 6k down, 1.9 APR and 72 months, you would at the same rate as the lease but with 6k down. So over 36 months you would have paid 6k more and I don't believe you would have any positive equity at that point.

If the lease rates match the current 235i, lease will still be the best option if you plan on selling after 3 years. Especially with the reduced risk and less money upfront. Lease for lease, an M3 is the way to go if you want more value. Fiance vs lease on an M2, I would personally lease as I never keep a car more than 3 years. I also enjoy the lower payments and less risk along with more options at lease end. Can't stand selling a car privately. Even if the market for an M2 exploded, I would still have the option to buy at lease end and would have only paid about 1% more in interest.

Excellent, love it!

72 months is available, try 84

Even if I only planned to own an M2 for 36 months , I would finance it across as many months as my lender would allow.

That gives me the lowest monthly payment and yes in this case , its likely lower than a lease. If selling the car in 3 years then I am also paying a small amount in payments over that first 3 years and sell it and walk away. After 3 years , the typical M car is going depreciate a small amount but not a lot, and a low volume niche car like the 1M, z4, it will do even better.

OR, if at any point one decides to keep it then accelerate your payments whenever you like or take the full term. Again, at rates of 1-2.5 percent that's very little interest.

For those that don't jump around and buy cars often , in other words , If you are still driving an E46 M3, and looking to stretch and make a big jump , then finance an M2 for 6-7 years and extend the warranty out if you wish later.

I appreciate your lease enthusiasm but I came out WAY ahead but purchasing my 1M with lower payments in the process.


Even if you know you will get rid of it in three years I bet this car also works out better to purchase.

I'm fairly positive the question will be moot as I expect some seriously unfavorable lease rates and a lot of pissed off potential buyers very soon.

[XRAVE]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Excellent, love it!

72 months is available, try 84

Even if I only planned to own an M2 for 36 months , I would finance it across as many months as my lender would allow.

That gives me the lowest monthly payment and yes in this case , its likely lower than a lease. If selling the car in 3 years then I am also paying a small amount in payments over that first 3 years and sell it and walk away. After 3 years , the typical M car is going depreciate a small amount but not a lot, and a low volume niche car like the 1M, z4, it will do even better.

OR, if at any point one decides to keep it then accelerate your payments whenever you like or take the full term. Again, at rates of 1-2.5 percent that's very little interest.

For those that don't jump around and buy cars often , in other words , If you are still driving an E46 M3, and looking to stretch and make a big jump , then finance an M2 for 6-7 years and extend the warranty out if you wish later.

I appreciate your lease enthusiasm but I came out WAY ahead but purchasing my 1M with lower payments in the process.


Even if you know you will get rid of it in three years I bet this car also works out better to purchase.

I'm fairly positive the question will be moot as I expect some seriously unfavorable lease rates and a lot of pissed off potential buyers very soon.

As long as the car doesn't depreciate more than 45% within the first 3 years, you should be able to walk out after 3 years, paying just over $2000 more than the comparable lease. That's assuming you could get 84 months at 1.9%. Also if you put the same 10% down payment on your lease, your payments would be lower than the finance.

The biggest difference in the lease and finance is that with a lease, the financing company takes all the risk in terms of depreciation. Let's say you get into a huge accident, car is totaled 1 month after purchase. In the lease scenario you walk out of it with not paying a penny. Also since you didn't put any money down, you haven't lost out on anything. If you finance the car you will have a hard time trying to get back your original deposit plus the depreciation over that month. Chances are you would be in the negative in that scenario. The second scenario would be a huge accident where your car depreciates heavily. In the lease, you will not have have to pay anything when turning it in while if you finance the car, you will take a huge hit when you go to sell it. Third scenario would be that the market crashes for the car (proabbly wont happen with an M2), but again your safe from the depreciated value.

In your case, with the 1M. Yes you came out on top but you would have come out on top with the lease as well. I don't know what the residuals were but lets say you bought an 1M for 50k and agreed on a 50% residual. After the 3 years the car is really worth 60k. You still have the option to buy the car from BMW at 25k, no matter what the value of the car. Only difference from the finance here is that you paid about .5% more in interest.

Another huge benefit to leasing, at least here in Florida is that you only pay taxes on the difference between sale price and the residual value rather than the entire value of the car. So if I decided to trade in the car to lets say car max, I would have never paid taxes on 60% of the car.

Even if the person decides at lease end to buy the car and finance it, they would have really only paid .5-1% more than someone who financed it from the beginning. But you could have invested the initial down payment (6k in this case) and made more than that over the 3 years. I understand your entitled to your opinion but I still don't see any benefit to financing over leasing. Other than crazy low residuals, I don't see any way I would purchase. I would how ever love to hear your argument as to if I missed some benefit to financing.

[chiefneil]

Originally Posted by G8rGrl

I recall an after-market BMW rear view camera retrofit was available? I would need it, because that executive package price is ridiculous. Backup camera should be standard or a stand-alone $200 option.

If you can wait until 2018 the camera will be included as standard equipment by then if not sooner.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/backup-...-cars-in-2018/

[G8rGrl]

Originally Posted by chiefneil

If you can wait until 2018 the camera will be included as standard equipment by then if not sooner.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/backup-...-cars-in-2018/

I can't wait. I will just get the executive package, since I want the camera.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by XRAVE

As long as the car doesn't depreciate more than 45% within the first 3 years, you should be able to walk out after 3 years, paying just over $2000 more than the comparable lease. That's assuming you could get 84 months at 1.9%. Also if you put the same 10% down payment on your lease, your payments would be lower than the finance.

The biggest difference in the lease and finance is that with a lease, the financing company takes all the risk in terms of depreciation. Let's say you get into a huge accident, car is totaled 1 month after purchase. In the lease scenario you walk out of it with not paying a penny. Also since you didn't put any money down, you haven't lost out on anything. If you finance the car you will have a hard time trying to get back your original deposit plus the depreciation over that month. Chances are you would be in the negative in that scenario. The second scenario would be a huge accident where your car depreciates heavily. In the lease, you will not have have to pay anything when turning it in while if you finance the car, you will take a huge hit when you go to sell it. Third scenario would be that the market crashes for the car (proabbly wont happen with an M2), but again your safe from the depreciated value.

In your case, with the 1M. Yes you came out on top but you would have come out on top with the lease as well. I don't know what the residuals were but lets say you bought an 1M for 50k and agreed on a 50% residual. After the 3 years the car is really worth 60k. You still have the option to buy the car from BMW at 25k, no matter what the value of the car. Only difference from the finance here is that you paid about .5% more in interest.

Another huge benefit to leasing, at least here in Florida is that you only pay taxes on the difference between sale price and the residual value rather than the entire value of the car. So if I decided to trade in the car to lets say car max, I would have never paid taxes on 60% of the car.

Even if the person decides at lease end to buy the car and finance it, they would have really only paid .5-1% more than someone who financed it from the beginning. But you could have invested the initial down payment (6k in this case) and made more than that over the 3 years. I understand your entitled to your opinion but I still don't see any benefit to financing over leasing. Other than crazy low residuals, I don't see any way I would purchase. I would how ever love to hear your argument as to if I missed some benefit to financing.

LOVE the intelligent conversation.... and love the fact that you actually have a calculator at hand and aren't just theorizing!

There are lots of givens with buying an M car... and definitely it's not gonna lose 45 percent in 3 years... (maybe 5 years) so one's money really isn't much at risk at all...

you mentioned Gap Insurance for the situation where one purchases a car via a lease... in the event it gets totaled early on. This is also available on auto loans... I think I was first offered this on a car I bought back in 2005.. so there is no leasing advantage here..

In my situation, I did go with 84 months and I put zero down. I purchased my car via ED so I wasn't concerned about initial depreciation. I even DECLINED the optional gap insurance from my credit union because I knew it wouldn't be an issue.

So yes.. here is my argument for financing this specific vehicle.. the M2! Go check out the 1M forums... And prepare for the crazy low residuals....


I have ZERO experience in leasing.. so I will leave that research to you.. but I would LOVE for you to go look at the figures from back then...

What I DO clearly remember.. is a lot of people that were expecting that they would be able to lease an M2 for a couple of hundred bucks a month less than an E9x M3...and it just really didn't turn out that way. I also remember a lot of people that weren't traditional BMW owners that were expecting to be able to lease an 1M for well under $699 and they were seriously disappointed... The way to do it was to finance it... My payment turned out to be far less than that by the way.

There has been SO much on the M2 that tracks right along with the 1M.. if you are seriously considering leasing.. you should be checking out the 1M forums for sure to see what rates people got.. I really doubt it will change much for the M2!

[ZilberGrau ZHP]

My wife's M235 was in at 55k- THIS IS A TOTAL BARGAIN- if a loaded M2 at 57K could be called a "bargain" but I know that she will be trading in her M235 for a LBB M2!

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by ZilberGrau ZHP

My wife's M235 was in at 55k- THIS IS A TOTAL BARGAIN- if a loaded M2 at 57K could be called a "bargain" but I know that she will be trading in her M235 for a LBB M2!

Congratulaions.. And I agree! the M2 IS a TOTAL BARGAIN.

And so was the 1M..

Both cars easily compares to the E46M3 Competition package.. and come in far cheaper... no " adjustment for inflation" needed!

[///M2]

This is excellent news. This is probably the best car for the money you can buy brand new. LBB with a manual is all I need.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by tallshortguy

This is by far the least optionable car BMW has in the states.

Exactly. BMW is saying... buy it.. or don't.. If you don't like the M2 then build and M3/M4 the way you want it!

However.. you can install some optional BMW performance items if customization is your thang..

[XRAVE]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

LOVE the intelligent conversation.... and love the fact that you actually have a calculator at hand and aren't just theorizing!

There are lots of givens with buying an M car... and definitely it's not gonna lose 45 percent in 3 years... (maybe 5 years) so one's money really isn't much at risk at all...

you mentioned Gap Insurance for the situation where one purchases a car via a lease... in the event it gets totaled early on. This is also available on auto loans... I think I was first offered this on a car I bought back in 2005.. so there is no leasing advantage here..

In my situation, I did go with 84 months and I put zero down. I purchased my car via ED so I wasn't concerned about initial depreciation. I even DECLINED the optional gap insurance from my credit union because I knew it wouldn't be an issue.


Now..... go check out the 1M forums... And prepare for the crazy low residuals....


I have ZERO experience in leasing.. so I will leave that research to you.. but I would LOVE for you to go look at the figures from back then... What I DO clearly remember.. is a lot of people that were expecting that they would be able to lease an M2 for a couple of hundred bucks a month less than an E9x M3...and it just really didn't turn out that way.

There has been SO much on the M2 that tracks right along with the 1M.. if you are seriously considering leasing.. you should be checking out the 1M forums for sure to see what rates people got.. I really doubt it will change much for the M2!

On the lease you wouldn't need gap insurance, since you put no money down and they just take over payments, you wouldn't have to worry about anything (I experienced this with 1 of my cars). But that is true, you could get gap insurance. Not sure what the cost of that insurance is though.

I also saw the residuals for the 1M, 48%. That is terrible. A 50k car would have leased for 1000 a month. Of course you would have made all your money back as you could have bought the car for 24,000 but still wouldn't have been a smart choice. The residual for this car was 48%, 1% lower than the 135i at the time. So if that holds true, the current 235i is 60% so hopefully the M2 is in the 59-60% range.

[rjc32000]

Ugh....anyone else uncomfortable with 10k miles between oil changes on an M car?

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by XRAVE

On the lease you wouldn't need gap insurance, since you put no money down and they just take over payments, you wouldn't have to worry about anything (I experienced this with 1 of my cars). But that is true, you could get gap insurance. Not sure what the cost of that insurance is though.

I also saw the residuals for the 1M, 48%. That is terrible. A 50k car would have leased for 1000 a month. Of course you would have made all your money back as you could have bought the car for 24,000 but still wouldn't have been a smart choice. The residual for this car was 48%, 1% lower than the 135i at the time. So if that holds true, the current 235i is 60% so hopefully the M2 is in the 59-60% range.

Exactly. Glad you've checked around! Leasing was a HORRIBLE option on the 1M.. and I expect it to be the same on the M2.

Again... just saying... BMW isn't going to be motivating buyers to pick up the M2 any more than Porsche is incentivizing buyers to get a Cayman GT4.

BE PREPARED for crazy residual shock.

[XRAVE]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Again... just saying... BMW isn't going to be motivating buyers to pick up the M2 any more than Porsche is incentivizing buyers to get a Cayman GT4.

BE prepared for crazy residual shock.

Yea its not looking good. Dealer already confirmed that they won't be discounting the car so lease payments would be more than my M3. Something I would not be comfortable with.

Unless they announce they are producing a crazy number, looks like I will be waiting until next when things die down.

Originally Posted by rjc32000

Ugh....anyone else uncomfortable with 10k miles between oil changes on an M car?

No, wasn't it 15,000 before? And it would probably be closer to 7-8k with the BMW computer.

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

including POWER seats.. Headroom is gonna be an issue for some

That is a bummer. I'd prefer manual seats for simplicity alone. Are you thinking of keeping the 1M or moving on to an M2?

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by rjc32000

Ugh....anyone else uncomfortable with 10k miles between oil changes on an M car?

You can always do your own oil changes in between.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by XRAVE

Yea its not looking good. Dealer already confirmed that they won't be discounting the car so lease payments would be more than my M3. Something I would not be comfortable with.

Unless they announce they are producing a crazy number, looks like I will be waiting until next when things die down.

this is my point all along.

BMW would rather sell buyers an M3 or M4 than they would an M2.
The 2 series and M2 are much lower volume cars and they are purposely kept low volume in order to incentivize 3/4 series sales..
Meanwhile.. BMW will be happy to pump out a ton of X1s and 1 series three and five doors out of the same factory that makes the M2.

This is why BMW doesn't have a 4 door 1 series or 2 series.. they would rather sell a 3/4 series.

[BiscottiGelato]

This M2 is indeed incredible value. But the moon roof is a total deal breaker. This is still 90% DD after-all. Not a fan of the black seats either but I can live with it.

Moonroof.... Argh

[stuka]

Originally Posted by scottomfg

I drive an M235i with power seats and sunroof. I'm 6' 2" 225 lbs, and I have plenty of room.

You must have long inseam and don't sit up like HPDE.

A lot of people who have done HPDE sit up where your wrists rest on top of the steering wheel (for fine motor control), if you lean back where your wrists are not resting comfortably with you moving forward, you are using gross motor control.

Essentially, hands vs arms for steering.

This is why BMW to this day offers no sunroof options on their smaller cars, their smaller cars have never had great headrooms if you sit up HPDE style.

[stuka]

Originally Posted by dan99

this has so much value over the m235i....

LSD is standard and not a crazy 3K option for starters.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by JasonCSU

That is a bummer. I'd prefer manual seats for simplicity alone. Are you thinking of keeping the 1M or moving on to an M2?

I was very much IN on the M2 for the following....

Euro Delivery-
New Warranty
The price- even when it wasn't known, I expected around 10K less than M3
That new car smell...

However.. I am OUT for the following reasons...

The rear bumper and taillights of all 2 series still disappoint for me.. the front does look much better than the 1 series of course.

The weight - I am very disappointed it will weigh more than the 1M.

Power seats - I wear a helmet from time to time in my 1M. 1Ms with power seats have at least 1" less headroom. The seats from the M2 and 1M look to be largely similar. The roofline on the M2 is also about 1/2" lower than the 1M..

EPS - While I am not a hater... It's clearly something BMW has not yet perfected at this point, and I very much doubt that comparisons will indicate the M2 will have better steering feel than a 1M.

auto Blip throttle - manuals don't need this..

Interior- I very much dislike the Nav screen/Ipad on the dash - of course it was the same on the the 1 series .. this just is not a very good design from BMW.

Rare air- while I expect this to be a low volume car... I anticipate it will be Much like E30 vs E36... the original will always be worth more. I owned an E30 M3 and got to watch the E36... E46... and E90x come out.... and the 1M was the only car special enough to get me to sell the E30 M3. And of course these days... an E30 M3 is worth more than all M3s except CSL and F8x. I very much expect the 1M and the M2 to be like the E30 M3 and E36M3.. The original car is the driver's car... and the " remix" appeals to more people and is more of a grand tourer.



If I could afford to own both... I would consider it... a daily driver M2 would be neat.... but more than likely I will upgrade my SUV... I likely will get an X1 or keep my big 'murrican truck and find a daily commuter E46.


The M2 looks to be quite special.. but not as much so as the 1M.

I'm absolutely still all in on an M2 CSL... that would be a car worthy of giving up the 1M., or Perhaps a Cayman GT4 but I just can't see spending that much unless it says CSL.
.