[medphysdave]

I can see that for sure. Unfortunately, I think the M2CS utility is it's main hat trick when you throw in the performance. Take away the utility and I'm likely changing brands.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

I didn't even know I could fold the seats until last weekend. Its utility value skyrocketed for me. I doubt this will be an option in the G87 CS if M moves to moulded rears like the other CS cars. That said - given how impractical the rears are in the new 2 I doubt this will be the case.

What's that 'fragile' package in your trunk?

The original painting of the Mona Lisa?

Or that's story you should feed your insurance company, in the event your vehicle gets stolen

[Jimjamz]

Originally Posted by Moflow

As much as we love our F87s (and I do truly love mine) it is in some ways, a souped up compact car. It's based on the european 1-series, which is (to my understanding) a civic/corolla competitor. Now the difference is that BMW sends power to the rear wheels so while it's wise for Honda to stop at around ~300 hp for the civic type R due to diminishing returns, a 400+ hp 1/2-series can still be excellent to drive.

Those economy car roots mean that when BMW went to layout the basic hardpoints and interior, they did so with an eye on clever usage of space. Most of the cars riding on the F-generation 1 and 2 series chassis' were designed to be a person's only car. Obviously some of that practicality was thrown out when they turned a hatchback into a 2-door coupe, but there's still a lot of 1-series space consciousness in the 2-series interior.

The new 2-series notably bears no relation to the new 1-series. My understanding is that it's based more on the Z4, a car not setup to use every last ounce of interior space.

A very plausible perspective. The 2er this time around was a very intentioned design and not opportunistically derived from the 1er line (which includes the 2 gran coupe I understand). That said, it makes me think the OG f series M2s will be more special as a result.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

A very plausible perspective. The 2er this time around was a very intentioned design and not opportunistically derived from the 1er line (which includes the 2 gran coupe I understand). That said, it makes me think the OG f series M2s will be more special as a result.

Trust me, other than maybe it's polarizing appearance, which I could take it or leave it, honestly; the new G87 will render the F generation M2 an afterthought.

Any successive vehicle will be an objectively better vehicle than the one it precedes, in every way possible - that's just the natural progression of things.

I've been following BMWs since 2008 and I've heard this pipe dream before, with every preceding model.

Remember the E92 M3? probably not too much - that used to be the king of the hill and this exact rhetoric was passing around before the F generation was announced. Something about BMW has lost its way, true M cars are naturally aspirated, blah blah, blah.. Where is the E92 now in comparison to the F80? Same can be said about the F80 now in comparison to the G80 and so forth. You get my drift..

I'll give the CS one thing, it's one sexy looking vehicle and no one can take that away from it but the fact of the matter is, when the next generation becomes available, it's going to take a back seat - you can set your watch to that.

[Jimjamz]

Originally Posted by Poochie

Trust me, other than maybe it's polarizing appearance, which I could take it or leave it, honestly; the new G87 will render the F generation M2 an afterthought.

Any successive vehicle will be an objectively better vehicle than the one it precedes, in every way possible - that's just the natural progression of things.

I don't think it's a given. Every M gen maxes out capabilities within tolerances allowed at the time. New gens are subject to different conditions that don't always make for subjective improvements.

- Emission regulations are more and more onerous for each new gen - affecting sound and performance profiles (eg cat converter introductions and sound reduction targets mean each new gen is not objectively 'better' sounding from a driver-owner perspective - The V10 and I6 non turbos sounded epically good and F1 has lost a lot of fans since the newer quieter engines came in). I do get newer gen cars are much better for the environment which is good.

- safety hardpoint stipulations in various geos demand physical specification limitations that didn't impede previous gen cars.

- visual design is a subjective not objective choice that brings visual differentiation to each new gen. Future gen cars are not objectively or subjectively 'better looking' as judged over time. Not many have said the new G22 4 series looks better than the F32 F gen 4.

[6CylindersEveryDay]

Originally Posted by Poochie

Trust me, other than maybe it's polarizing appearance, which I could take it or leave it, honestly; the new G87 will render the F generation M2 an afterthought.

Any successive vehicle will be an objectively better vehicle than the one it precedes, in every way possible - that's just the natural progression of things.

I've been following BMWs since 2008 and I've heard this pipe dream before, with every preceding model.

I know what you are saying but we are at the point where more performance doesn't necessarily make a more enjoyable street car that you are trying to enjoy without being downright dangerous or getting thrown in jail. At this point it is about how the car looks, feels, and all the intangibles like rarity that go into something just being "cool". An E30 M3 or Audi Sport Quattro are still cool as hell even though they don't have great performance.

For public road enjoyment it's not going to be easy to strike a better balance of performance, comfort, and feel. "Cool" is subjective but the Misano Blue F87 CS with frozen gold wheels and a manual transmission does it for me.

I'm just repeating things that I've said multiple times before, but my car is in winter storage and I miss it

[Got f1?]

Originally Posted by 6CylindersEveryDay

I know what you are saying but we are at the point where more performance doesn't necessarily make a more enjoyable street car that you are trying to enjoy without being downright dangerous or getting thrown in jail. At this point it is about how the car looks, feels, and all the intangibles like rarity that go into something just being "cool". An E30 M3 or Audi Sport Quattro are still cool as hell even though they don't have great performance.

For public road enjoyment it's not going to be easy to strike a better balance of performance, comfort, and feel. "Cool" is subjective but the Misano Blue F87 CS with frozen gold wheels and a manual transmission does it for me.

I'm just repeating things that I've said multiple times before, but my car is in winter storage and I miss it

What he said.

[NYNick]

With the outrageous reviews, performance and reception of the M2 CS and now the M5 CS, with their associated profit margins, they've got the recipe dialed in. No manufacturer in their right mind would let an opportunity to make more money slip away.

What's more likely, IMO, is that they dilute the specialness by making a lot more CS' in every way, shape and form. Hell, Bentley is making SUV's for Pete's sake.

X5M CS anyone?

[mchart]

Originally Posted by NYNick

With the outrageous reviews, performance and reception of the M2 CS and now the M5 CS, with their associated profit margins, they've got the recipe dialed in. No manufacturer in their right mind would let an opportunity to make more money slip away.

What's more likely, IMO, is that they dilute the specialness by making a lot more CS' in every way, shape and form. Hell, Bentley is making SUV's for Pete's sake.

X5M CS anyone?

lol

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by 6CylindersEveryDay

I know what you are saying but we are at the point where more performance doesn't necessarily make a more enjoyable street car that you are trying to enjoy without being downright dangerous or getting thrown in jail. At this point it is about how the car looks, feels, and all the intangibles like rarity that go into something just being "cool". An E30 M3 or Audi Sport Quattro are still cool as hell even though they don't have great performance.

For public road enjoyment it's not going to be easy to strike a better balance of performance, comfort, and feel. "Cool" is subjective but the Misano Blue F87 CS with frozen gold wheels and a manual transmission does it for me.

I'm just repeating things that I've said multiple times before, but my car is in winter storage and I miss it

I agree, modern day vehicles have pretty much plateaued in power and handling but there is still some room for improvement, as technology has progressed..

I'm sure some folks might know that although previous to current M cars have gobs of power but they don't necessarily have sufficient traction to put it all down. This has been greatly improved in the "G" generation of M vehicles with the advent new technology called DSCi, which in laymen terms is a brake-by-wire, system, incorporated with the e-LSD, stability and traction control system.

Typically, BMW uses the hydraulic brakes to modulate stability and traction. The e-LSD pumps power to each wheel and brakes reigns it all in. This has worked for many generations, going back to the E46 but with the new generation of M cars, BMW has vastly improve this system, due to the fact the brakes are now operated electronically, as oppose to hydraulically, practically eliminating any latency within the stability and traction control response time, with much greater precision. As a result, the driver benefits from a quicker, more exacting response from the driving stability control system.

This system is the reason why the new G8X M3/M4 is touted having superior traction, compared to the tire-vaporizing, wheel spinning circus of the preceding generation. Now with fine-tunable adjustability in traction and stability, it is an objectively better performing vehicle, not to mention, inherently instant braking.

This is what supercars uses in their vehicle and has now trickle down to BMW road vehicles. So, the next generation of BMW will not just be about turning up the boost, on a new frame, there are great improvements in the way of handing and stability and I feel they will naturally out perform the vehicles that they are preceding.



.

https://www.brembo.com/en/company/news/future-brake

[WWM3]

Originally Posted by Poochie

Trust me, other than maybe it's polarizing appearance, which I could take it or leave it, honestly; the new G87 will render the F generation M2 an afterthought.

Any successive vehicle will be an objectively better vehicle than the one it precedes, in every way possible - that's just the natural progression of things.

I've been following BMWs since 2008 and I've heard this pipe dream before, with every preceding model.

Remember the E92 M3? probably not too much - that used to be the king of the hill and this exact rhetoric was passing around before the F generation was announced. Something about BMW has lost its way, true M cars are naturally aspirated, blah blah, blah.. Where is the E92 now in comparison to the F80? Same can be said about the F80 now in comparison to the G80 and so forth. You get my drift..

I'll give the CS one thing, it's one sexy looking vehicle and no one can take that away from it but the fact of the matter is, when the next generation becomes available, it's going to take a back seat - you can set your watch to that.

Yes, every generation improves upon the last. However, that potentially does not render the previous one an afterthought. Different generations of M cars have their unique qualities which impacts their future desirability. The G87 will be faster, but will also gain less desirable characteristics. It will be significantly heavier, bigger, and more tech focused. Who knows if the 6MT is matched to competition models or special editions. A lot remains to be seen.

It's interesting that you mentioned the E92, because I think that car illustrates my point. I'd rather have an E92 over an F82. It's a more fun car to drive and has unique characteristics in that model's lineage. The low-tech single hump cars with 6MT are especially desirable. Meanwhile, the G87 will have a screen that covers the entire dash.

[M Fifty]

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

Pretty funny. If I wanted a 2 seater I'd buy a Cayman/Boxster or Z4. The usable back bench was a key reason I got the M2 CS over a GTS or GT4.

How do you stop the sheep licking the back of your neck while driving?

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by "M Fifty;28500039"

How do you stop the sheep licking the back of your neck while driving?

Drive with goats instead 🤣😂

[JustChris]

Wow I've suspected the space problem for a little while but that's an absolute game changer on the new platform in a bad way.

I'd happily had the prior M235i and an M2 but I agree all images and reviews I've seen, the rear space looks much more compromised.

They want you to upgrade to the 4er for sure.

[CarJunkie]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

Drive with goats instead 🤣😂

True story…I am an Infectious Diseases doc, so I get called for the nasty stuff. I was asked to see a girl who had compound femur fractures after a rollover car accident and needed hardware placed. The wounds were contaminated with animal feces. I assumed the had rolled into a farmers field and was ejected from the vehicle. Nope. She is a 4H kid and had transported her goats in the back of her Subaru wagon for a fair the weekend before the crash. They had shit all over the back seat and cargo area and she hadn't cleaned it up yet. I haven't seen or heard it all, but I'm getting close. 😂

[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by Poochie

Trust me, other than maybe it's polarizing appearance, which I could take it or leave it, honestly; the new G87 will render the F generation M2 an afterthought.

Any successive vehicle will be an objectively better vehicle than the one it precedes, in every way possible - that's just the natural progression of things.

I've been following BMWs since 2008 and I've heard this pipe dream before, with every preceding model.

Remember the E92 M3? probably not too much - that used to be the king of the hill and this exact rhetoric was passing around before the F generation was announced. Something about BMW has lost its way, true M cars are naturally aspirated, blah blah, blah.. Where is the E92 now in comparison to the F80? Same can be said about the F80 now in comparison to the G80 and so forth. You get my drift..

I'll give the CS one thing, it's one sexy looking vehicle and no one can take that away from it but the fact of the matter is, when the next generation becomes available, it's going to take a back seat - you can set your watch to that.

You do speak alot of truth in these statements (i personally think the E92 is an overrated car compared to the F80, which is now eclipsed by the G80) and I hope you are right, that the F87 M2 CS gets blown away by the G series car. We should be wishing for one more great BMW ICE coupe before cars become overly digitized.

But performance isn't everything, so is look and feel. We already know we are getting iDrive 8 in the next M2 while my M2 CS has traditional dials (and a 1M has truly analog dials). Lets wait and see, but there is a reason for people to be skeptical.

I do believe the G80 m3 xdrive is very good, but i'm not accepting the xdrive M240i as a "future classic" coupe (as BMW Blog called it) when it weighs like 3800 pounds, has a sunroof, has 4 wheel drive, and no usable backseat. Sorry folks, it is not a "future classic", its a transition piece to electric cars and it will depreciate like a rock and be forgotten. Lets bring on the m2 version if we are looking for future classics.

[Hpirx]

Backseat of the G42 is less roomy than the F22.
Entry and egress is also harder for an adult.
BUT, the front cockpit of the G42 is MUCH roomier than the previous generation.
This is significant if you do extended drives with a passenger. Cargo space is also not compromised.
50 Hp bump is delicious for passing.
Driving dynamics also a bit more refined.
Weighty, but BMW has heavy vehicle performance sussed.
The 240 now more a true GT coupe than a detuned track car. Looking forward to those long drives to Vermont in any weather.
Maybe it's a bit ugly in spots, nothing too horrendous I think. Not gonna see a zillion of them I think, so we got that going for it.
Hope all your G87 dreams come true like mine did.