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      04-28-2020, 05:32 AM   #1
photorph
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2020 BMW M2 competition vs 2020 camaro Zl1? Convince me that M2 C is better

I have narrowed down my car choices to these two after a LOT of research. The M2 seems to be way outclassed. The MSRP on the camaro is higher but it has bigger discounts so out the door pricing tends to be about the same.

Camaro ZL1 has 650 hp/650 torque, and yes it handles very well. It's got track times that beat many exotic cars. Interior is pretty good relatively speaking. The suspension and chassis are really excellent, so it corners pretty good. The M2 C is a smaller/more nimble car, but from all my research the camaro feels light and handles like it's on rails. The nurburgring time for a camaro is 7:16 with 1LE package stock, an m2 competition would is 7:52. Just to give you an idea of the difference. A zl1 start up sounds great as well.

Has anyone driven BOTH? And tell me reasons you would pick a bmw m2 comp over the camaro Zl1?

We all know what M2 C looks like, but here's pics for those who don't know what the new camaro 1le looks like.

UPDATE 6 months later: Wow this thread really blew up. OP here. Update to thread. I drove both cars often.

The ZL1 was about the same price as the M2c and the ZL1 LE was about 6000 more. Negligible difference overall pricing wise. Driving the ZL1 LE is an experience, so much power and the sounds it makes are incredible. Handling is fantastic. It's a better performance car in every respect and draws a lot of attention. It was definitely the more exciting car to drive, almost like driving a super car. It is the car I WANT to pick and seems like the better choice. As a second car I would pick the ZL1 LE no doubt.

BUT I ordered an M2C that is being built currently as my primary car. So why did I pick the M2C even though the performance and experience is lacking vs the ZLE?

Here's my reasons why:
1) Practicality: Larger back seats and larger trunk
2) Daily driving is a lot more reasonable in the M2C, specially for winter in Michigan.
3) Doesn't attract as much attention, this may be a con for some but daily driving to work I really don't want to attract a lot of attention and kind of stay low key
4) I don't have to worry about throwing away the stock tires, the ZLE just comes with slicks essentially while the M2C tires are usable in the nice weather
5) Financing rate was 2% better for BMW
6) Things you interact with on a daily basis like the infotainment are a bit better on M2c
7) BMW dealers are generally better than chevy dealers when it comes to post purchase service, a ZLE is a specialty car and many Chevy technicians rarely get a chance to work on it. Most ZL1 owners prefer to do their own routine services such as oil changes. Whereas with BMW I can assume they know the drill with the M cars as they work on a lot of those routinely.
8) interior space is generally better put together in M2C. The camaro isn't bad features wise, it's got comfy seats. But the M2C has an interior that just flows better.
9) It's a smaller car and fits in my garage better
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Last edited by photorph; 01-27-2021 at 11:30 PM.. Reason: Update
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      04-28-2020, 06:33 AM   #2
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wrong sub forum and it’s been discussed in the past. IMHO these are different cars and if you’re just looking at performance then yeah go with the Camaro.

Honestly I don’t like the Camaro interior and overall I prefer BMW styling/quality over Chevy.

The Camaro also feels a lot bigger of a car than the M2C if you drove them back to back.

Price per performance def take the Camaro. Heck consider the Mustang too while you’re at it.

Id drive my M2C over a ZL1 any day but that’s why different cars exist for different folks.
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      04-28-2020, 07:11 AM   #3
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If I was into this style of car I'd take the Mustang. Both of these cars seem to break down in magazine tests once they leave the US though. So that may be a concern if a carefully factory prepared car has so many issues once it leaves "home" and away from the reviewers that are invested in the local produce.

You also have to consider what it's like day to day and how much fun it delivers at the same time as not stressing you out all the time.

Are you a professional racing driver or do you just want an extremely fun fast car that is practical at the same time?
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      04-28-2020, 07:15 AM   #4
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Yeah, I don't know how much detailed information you're going to get here. A lot of us have driven them, or various versions of the new Camaro. Many of us, at least myself and at least a few others with posts I recall, turned away from the Camaro for packaging reasons as much as anything else. Size, visibility, etc... I know at least two folk in RL who turned away from it for that reason and bought a Mustang GT PP2 in addition to those of us who ended up in M2's.

Performance may be everything on the track, but packaging matters when driving to Costco. It didn't matter to me what it could do on the 'Ring. It was too big and I couldn't see out of it well enough.
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      04-28-2020, 07:17 AM   #5
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The Camaro ZL1 power would be hard to pass on at that price. The M2 Competition is a bit heavy.
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      04-28-2020, 07:37 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hegge View Post
The Camaro ZL1 power would be hard to pass on at that price. The M2 Competition is a bit heavy.
Yep, just barely lighter than the ZL1 despite being smaller. Pretty sure everyone was aware of this 3 years ago.
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      04-28-2020, 07:40 AM   #7
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I couldn’t stand the visibility out of the camero. I felt like I was in a coffin. Next time you are next to a camero look at the height of the side widows. They are like 1/2 the height of windows on other cars.
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      04-28-2020, 07:51 AM   #8
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I can chime in with some relevant experience

I went from a 2014 Cayman S to a 2015 Corvette, both manuals. I love low end torque and normal aspiration and manual and so the vette seemed like a no brainer. What I discovered is that the c7 had an overall sloppiness that didn't work for me compared to the cayman. It just doesn't feel like a refined european car. Whether that matters to you is up to you, it mattered to me.

one of the biggest let downs is PARTIAL throttle response. The gm throttle mapping is annoying on their big torque motors, the first 30% of travel on the pedal does very little. This is to ensure people don't crash when leaving parking spots. there is so much torque they try to control it with the throttle mapping. This throttle mapping really took away from the enjoyment of the car. With the cayman I had a direct connection to the engine with the throttle, that direct connection wasn't there with the c7

do you care about size and visibility? those were also things about the c7 I disliked compared to the cayman and I think the camaro will be even more annoying in those areas, not sure if that matters to you

not as directly relevant, but before my m2c I test drove a mustang bullitt as again I was attracted to the prospect of v8 sound and low end torque.
again the sheer size of that car took away from the enojoyment for me, it also just felt kinda sloppy compared to the german cars I've owned.

so yeah hope that's some helpful info and best with the decision
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      04-28-2020, 10:26 AM   #9
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I'm the wrong for this because I've never owned an American car, or ever plan to. Having driven many chevys, fords, chrysler rentals of all shapes and sizes, the fit, finish, quality, and overall desirability (for me) is not there. And no, this big box look does not appeal to me.

But that's me, so would never even consider this car. But if the raw numbers appeal to you as does the rest of the package, then go for it.
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      04-28-2020, 10:43 AM   #10
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No, I will not convince you.
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      04-28-2020, 11:48 AM   #11
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They're both great cars for different use cases. And the people who buy each are in generality, very different (not good or bad).

If you're looking for a greater discount and more HP, the Camaro will win. But for me, I will choose the M2C because it has a more refined interior. That matters to me and the classical layout and timelessness wins for me.

Also the driving experience just seems more composed in my mind. I drove the Camaro previously and there was a difference in the twisties. However, the power and sound of the Camaro is intoxicating and some people are swayed by that.

I don't think anyone on the forum will try and "convince" you. Most people here know what they want and sure some will defend the M2C to death, but the vast majority are pragmatic and are ok with someone liking something different.

Test drive both again and see which sings to you more. Luckily there are no wrong answers here.
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      04-28-2020, 11:52 AM   #12
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Posted this in the other thread but will repost my pointless response here as well....


To answer your questions as to why anyone would choose an M2, it's simple - Because they want the M2. It's that easy.

Get what YOU like and not what the inter webs say you should like. If you do the latter, it will be way more expensive at the end of the day.

Former 6th Gen Camaro SS and F80 M3 owner who is now an M2C owner here.

ZL1 is a great monster and fun to drive. But (1) you can't use all that power on the street (2) if you don't plan to track, why? (3) can you see yourself living in it every day? (4) have you test driven both yet? (5) what gives you all the feels - I'm not talking hot girl at the bar who is a freak for a few nights feels - I'm talking about that damn I want to marry her feels.
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      04-28-2020, 12:01 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by photorph View Post
I have narrowed down my car choices to these two after a LOT of research. The M2 seems to be way outclassed. ...<snip>....
What I don't understand is you said you've done a "LOT" of research and narrowed the cars down to these 2. And then you say the M2 is way outclassed. So why did you narrow it down to these 2 in the first place if the M2 is "outclassed"?

Clearly they are two very different cars, and appeal to different things. Nothing anyone is going to say here is going to make a difference really - you just have to decide what's important to you...
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      04-28-2020, 12:03 PM   #14
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The camaro is a better bang for your buck from a performance standpoint.

The real question is can you get over the downsides that will come with that performance bargain. The big one for me was the sheer size of the car combined with how incredibly impractical and small the interior is for something with that kind of footprint. Also, I just can’t handle daily driving a car with visibility that bad.

But it’s an incredible car for the money.
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      04-28-2020, 12:10 PM   #15
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I think whats also important to note is that you quoted track times as well as performance on the track.

The big question is...are YOU ever going to be on the track. Sure its nice being able to say "well my car is THIS fast" but at the end of the day if you yourself are never actually making it go that fast, then its just paper bragging rights.

My stance is this, if you are going to quote handling and track times, then you should be prepared for this car to see the track at least once a year.

However if the point of you getting this car is for driving around town or the occasional weekend sprint, then dont quote track times. Look at how each car is in the situation you are going to drive it in. WHat kind of roads are around you when you go for that weekend drive? Do you live in the city? Lots of wide open road? That will go WAY further in you helping make your decision, than the fact that the Camaro was faster on the Nuhrbergring by 40 odd seconds.

For me, i made the decision for the M2 for a few reasons. Its a comfortable car, it has over 300 HP (all my cars previously didnt go past 250), RWD, Its a coupe, it comes in a Manual, and it has enough trunk space that i can fit a full set of wheels back there for when i go to the track. It also handles well enough that i can have fun on daily roads but also a good amount of slidey fun when i'm on track.

I myself am a track/autocross guy. But track times did not influence my purchase of this car because 90% of the time i'm going to be driving this around town. I dont care if the new C8 corvette is 3 seconds faster around ThunderHill Raceway for the same price. Its only a 2-seater and is way too flashy to be my daily driver.
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      04-28-2020, 12:11 PM   #16
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Drive both and decide. We can't make that decision for you unless there is expectation that we chip in on the monthly payments. Also, worth pointing out that you are asking an entire forum of people who essentially chose the M2 over the Camaro.

I considered the ZL1 and drove it but few things I liked and didn't like. Power was nice and handling seemed well for the short test drive. Downsides was the ridiculous visibility and subpar interior. In the end didn't really care for it all that much.

Also, drove the GT350 and that was a great car but the M2 just barely beat it in my mind. Might want to consider that as well. Good luck.
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      04-28-2020, 12:16 PM   #17
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You seem primarily focused on power and lap times. If that is what is important to you then your choice is easy.

I suspect you are not very experienced on the track or with cars of the Camaros power level (very few are). Likely the Camaro will scare the crap out of you on the street unless you are extremely respectful of it and do not take advantage of the one thing you see as the big differentiater between the two vehicles.

Regardless of what you chose, this is a great decision to have to make. Good luck and enjoy!
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      04-28-2020, 12:29 PM   #18
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The M2C is a once in a lifetime opportunity. There will always be Camaros.
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      04-28-2020, 02:04 PM   #19
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I've never driven a Camaro, but that does seem like a lot of power and I have seen a video of Chris Harris enjoying the car on the track a lot. However, you did come to an M2C forum so here is a decent video of a Camaro ZL1 owner driving an M2C for the first time. You can see what he thinks. The one thing I can say is that he does mention being over the 11 mpg and having to buy new tires every couple months. It all depends on how you drive, but these types of cars beg for a certain driving style. Good luck on your choice. I'm sure you will be happy either way.

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      04-28-2020, 02:32 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5150d View Post
The M2C is a once in a lifetime opportunity. There will always be Camaros.
No disrespect, but just curious why you would say the M2C is a once in a life opportunity. Won't there always be more M2C down the line? As a matter a fact, just this week there were leaked images of the 2 series coupe and I think it looks pretty good!

Or if you were being facetious, I totally get that too.
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      04-28-2020, 02:59 PM   #21
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No offense to Camaro (or Corvette) guys, but the two pics of the Camaro are enough of an argument against it.
That might sound rude/harsh, but they are far too loud looking, and their designs "fade" way too quickly. Google image search "2013 Camaro ZL1" and tell me that the design is not dated/hideous!

This is coming from a guy who always wanted a Z06 until the C7 (and especially the C8) came out and ruined the look...
Man does that C8 look cheap and ugly from all angles, especially the back.

In short, Chevy lost me in 2014.

All IMO of course.

Now, if you said "convince me why to get the M2C over a GT350", I'd have a tougher time!
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      04-28-2020, 06:25 PM   #22
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You're comparing apples to cantaloupes. Two Very different cars, design philosophies, etc.
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