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      11-08-2021, 05:36 PM   #1
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Thoughts about the Active EL midpipe and 'rasp'..

Hey yall..

So I will have full video up soon for the EL install, plus driving comparisons between OEM, Active single channel (both resonated and non resonated) and also new to me the EL resonated midpipe.

I have been deep diving into all of the threads on the reported problem of 'rasp' and after reading probably 100+ comments, I am honestly confused. I watched and listed to several EL cold start videos and as the RPM settles, on several I could hear what sounded like metal on metal vibration. (see my point 1 below)

This isn't to say anyone isn't hearing what they are hearing, but really pondering the variables here.

Here is my current config:
AA *cough mumble* [redacted] *cough* DPs
AA EL midpipe
Stock OEM non M performance exhaust

First cold start.. zero rasp, or what I would call that.
First drive out with no issues, and about 2 hours in the car of solid drive time with varied speeds, conditions, lots and lots of shifting.

I have been pondering this a LOT both with the single channel mid and now the EL midpipe.

First, for clarity, I have cold start turned off in my tune and have the GTS roar at startup turned on.

My thoughts are:

1. Install problem? Are folks confusing a metallic rattle/vibration at certain RPMs because they have a fitment issue? In my single channel install, on first drive I had a vibration because the clearance off of a bolt head was fine sitting still but under one certain RPM the pipe would vibrate enough to hit it. Found that immediately when driving, found the issue and fixed it.

2. Install problem at the connection between DP and midpipe? I say this simply because I ran into someone recently with an F80 that DIDN’T have the locking plate at the DP/midpipe connection (WHAT?!?!) and said it had never been there. I could see where his pipes were hitting each other. Granted, very likely not common whatsoever, but a thought. Same thing with those conical gaskets at the end of the DPs.. I find they are often missing if I am working on a car that already has an aftermarket exhaust/midpipe on it. I think most people miss them, forget about them or don’t realize they are there when they come out with the OEM midpipe.

3. Is there any pattern to the rasp in combination of other specific hardware? So for example.. X brand/type midpipes with Y brand (oem, aftermarket, whatever) exhaust and Z downpipes? Could there be a pattern of this happening?

4. Related to tuning? Also in trying to narrow variables, what tune are the various folks running and in what modes and settings? Considering how much higher tunes can spin up the turbos over stock pressure, is there something related to exhaust and turbo pressure coming back down the pipes? If someone IS tuned (very likely) and is complaining about a bad rasp, if you flash back to stock to test does it go away? If it doesn’t, then not related to the tune, if it does go away entirely then something about their tune is doing it. Then they can try stock tune images like I can on my M2C.. so try stock, then the stock CS tune, then the stage 1, then stage 2 and custom tune and so on.

Yeah, that is a ton of testing, but also would narrow variables a ton.

5. Are folks confusing rasp and burbles? This is unlikely, but worth asking. If you have a tune on the car, I would turn burbles OFF entirely and test again? Do you still get a “rasp” sound, and exactly how and when? Under acceleration, or when you lift your foot (mistaken burbles?) and what RPMs?

This is all just off the top of my head.. there HAS to be a pattern here.

I don’t envy trying to chase this down as there are dozens of variables involved from physical install, to tune, driving modes, what options are enabled and more.

I did the initial cold start after install, then revs in efficient mode, then sport + everything open and it sounded great the entire time.

So far, I am VERY pleased.. I liked the single channel midpipe and already like the EL even more.
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      11-08-2021, 06:54 PM   #2
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EL midpipe with catless DP are known to sound absolutely terrible. I had that set up and immediately sold the EL and just stayed with the catless DPs. Im pretty the problem is the same with single mid, just not as bad. the main issue is the low/mid RPM. both setups are fine at high revs though, which isnt really for daily driving

edit: had same problem with resonated version as well

see vid:
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      11-08-2021, 06:57 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyM2See View Post
EL midpipe with catless DP are known to sound absolutely terrible. I had that set up and immediately sold the EL and just stayed with the catless DPs.

see vid:
Fascinating.. mine doesn't sound like that at all. What brand DPs and did it have resonators?

I will have videos up asap but will be a bit for sure as I catch up on a backlog of video work.
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      11-08-2021, 06:59 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW DIY Guy View Post
Fascinating.. mine doesn't sound like that at all. What brand DPs and did it have resonators?

I will have videos up asap but will be a bit for sure as I catch up on a backlog of video work.
It's listed in the vid title and description lol.
Also had same sound with resonators.
Friend ran same set up, also sounded terrible and he switched to another set up.
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      11-08-2021, 07:04 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyM2See View Post
It's listed in the vid title and description lol.
Also had same sound with resonators.
Friend ran same set up, also sounded terrible and he switched to another set up.
Right.. this is my point though: "It is known"... hmmm ok.. I am questioning the assumption with a million questions. Not that saying you or your buddy are wrong, but trying to understand WHY.

I have installed personally 5 single channel mids in F8Xs including my own with no issues, and tested both cattled and catless, resonated and non in my own car. Ran catless and resonated personally as I preferred that tone.

Now my EL is my first install, but know several locals with the EL in F8X and no issues.

No issues with my ELs thus far, so am trying to understand the actual variables here rather than generic statements.

Take a look at my detailed questions, trying to understand what are the variables that do or do not cause this to happen.
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      11-08-2021, 07:20 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW DIY Guy View Post
Right.. this is my point though: "It is known"... hmmm ok.. I am questioning the assumption with a million questions. Not that saying you or your buddy are wrong, but trying to understand WHY.

I have installed personally 5 single channel mids in F8Xs including my own with no issues, and tested both cattled and catless, resonated and non in my own car. Ran catless and resonated personally as I preferred that tone.

Now my EL is my first install, but know several locals with the EL in F8X and no issues.

No issues with my ELs thus far, so am trying to understand the actual variables here rather than generic statements.

Take a look at my detailed questions, trying to understand what are the variables that do or do not cause this to happen.
When you say F8X, are you also referring to the m3/4? Because they sound much different, with the same set ups, compared to the m2c
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      11-08-2021, 07:25 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyM2See View Post
When you say F8X, are you also referring to the m3/4? Because they sound much different, with the same set ups, compared to the m2c
Yes, I have installed into F80 M3s, F82 M4s and 2 F87 M2Cs counting mine. The AA midpipes and downpipes are identical, with only the ABs different length. The M3/4 AB pipes are longer than those provided for the M2Cs.

The only appreciable difference, as the motor is (discounting oem tunes) essentially the same along with DPs, are the longer AB pipes by (guessing) 8 inches.
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      11-08-2021, 08:46 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW DIY Guy View Post
Yes, I have installed into F80 M3s, F82 M4s and 2 F87 M2Cs counting mine. The AA midpipes and downpipes are identical, with only the ABs different length. The M3/4 AB pipes are longer than those provided for the M2Cs.
Your experience on the mids being the same for the M3/4 and M2C is interesting, as AA told me directly that they were different size. I have both single and EL for my M2C, plan on selling the single for sure, maybe the EL, and I was trying to determine if there would be a market in the M3/4 world. They said no.
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      11-08-2021, 09:08 PM   #9
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Following this as my EL Midpipe has been sitting on my floor for over three months now listening to all of these bad sound stories. I almost sold it twice. Non Res as I planned on using the stock setup besides the mid pipe.
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      11-08-2021, 10:21 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW DIY Guy View Post
Yes, I have installed into F80 M3s, F82 M4s and 2 F87 M2Cs counting mine. The AA midpipes and downpipes are identical, with only the ABs different length. The M3/4 AB pipes are longer than those provided for the M2Cs.

The only appreciable difference, as the motor is (discounting oem tunes) essentially the same along with DPs, are the longer AB pipes by (guessing) 8 inches.
Then maybe thats the difference?
I personally know a local guy with an m2c. AA took his car in (after trying the EL) and made the m3/4 midpipe fit his car somehow with some work, and it still did not sound good, the rasp at low/mid rpm persisted, and ultimately lead to removal of the midpipe all together.
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      11-08-2021, 11:15 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoIam View Post
Following this as my EL Midpipe has been sitting on my floor for over three months now listening to all of these bad sound stories. I almost sold it twice. Non Res as I planned on using the stock setup besides the mid pipe.
I will have both my DIY install video up, plus full sound review as soon as I can.

I really like it so far.
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      11-08-2021, 11:18 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finz View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW DIY Guy View Post
Yes, I have installed into F80 M3s, F82 M4s and 2 F87 M2Cs counting mine. The AA midpipes and downpipes are identical, with only the ABs different length. The M3/4 AB pipes are longer than those provided for the M2Cs.
Your experience on the mids being the same for the M3/4 and M2C is interesting, as AA told me directly that they were different size. I have both single and EL for my M2C, plan on selling the single for sure, maybe the EL, and I was trying to determine if there would be a market in the M3/4 world. They said no.
Now I will say I haven't had the mids for both cars side by side at the same time. From handling them I got the impression they are the same, but realize I could be wrong. The ABs though on the M3/M4 are definitely longer though.
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      11-09-2021, 03:40 AM   #13
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glad to hear you are enjoying the EL mp. It's not so much the rasp, whatever that means, it's the vibration sounds. The pipes are cheap thin walls so they will shake and whatnot. Removing the cats means more sound will vibrate the hell out of those pipes and it won't sound solid.

It is definitely a cheap solution for el piping somewhere, but the real solution should have been el headers.
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      11-09-2021, 06:43 AM   #14
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The AA EL mid pipes can just produce a lot of rasp depending on the full setup (downpipes , rearbox combo) and I think people would be able to tell if its actually noise from rubbing on the frame or not.

If you listen to @50shadesofhockenheim on instagram it sounds pretty bad. I'm sure his was installed correctly....but if you listen to @am_m2c his sounds pretty good and clean.

Edit: had hockenheim_m2c earlier but was mistaken for 50shades
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      11-09-2021, 06:44 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atruong247 View Post
glad to hear you are enjoying the EL mp. It's not so much the rasp, whatever that means, it's the vibration sounds. The pipes are cheap thin walls so they will shake and whatnot. Removing the cats means more sound will vibrate the hell out of those pipes and it won't sound solid.

It is definitely a cheap solution for el piping somewhere, but the real solution should have been el headers.
EL headers......the dream
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      11-09-2021, 08:48 AM   #16
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Lots of issues with the EL midpipe are due to a bad install. Not all the problems are due to the installation, but most of the complaints we get can be fixed by re-aligning the midpipe.

As for the rest, EL setups are very tricky. A minor change can transform the sound from terrible to excellent and vice versa.

Unless you are willing to test out different setups, I recommend only getting the combos known to sound good.
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      11-09-2021, 10:27 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoffeeLife View Post
The AA EL mid pipes can just produce a lot of rasp depending on the full setup (downpipes , rearbox combo) and I think people would be able to tell if its actually noise from rubbing on the frame or not.

If you listen to @hockenheim_m2c on instagram it sounds pretty bad. I'm sure his was installed correctly....but if you listen to @am_m2c his sounds pretty good and clean.
Yeah.. exactly my point. I am not saying folks do or dont hear what they do.. I am trying to figure out WHY when my experience is different.

The single channel is and was very good, and now with the EL, I am very pleased so far. My observations are different than what others have reported in what appears to be a controversial subject, so the 'why child' in me has kicked in.

I will have a full, and I mean FULL video comparison setup as soon as I can..

It will be:

OEM everything - cold start, revs, driving
OEM DP, single channel, resonated and non resonated, stock exhaust - cold start, revs, driving
AA DP, single channel, resonated and non resonated, stock exhaust - cold start, revs, driving
AA DP, EL, resonated, stock exhaust - cold start, revs, driving
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      11-09-2021, 10:29 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
Lots of issues with the EL midpipe are due to a bad install. Not all the problems are due to the installation, but most of the complaints we get can be fixed by re-aligning the midpipe.

As for the rest, EL setups are very tricky. A minor change can transform the sound from terrible to excellent and vice versa.

Unless you are willing to test out different setups, I recommend only getting the combos known to sound good.
Thanks Mike.. exactly my point. Any install can go bad if the setup is off in about a dozen variables to put it mildly.

Is exactly why I dumped all the questions at the start of this, trying to figure out what the variables are and potentially help folks with this question.

So far I am 100% confident with both the single and EL, so want to help others figure out what is wrong if possible for them.
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      11-09-2021, 10:53 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atruong247 View Post
glad to hear you are enjoying the EL mp. It's not so much the rasp, whatever that means, it's the vibration sounds. The pipes are cheap thin walls so they will shake and whatnot. Removing the cats means more sound will vibrate the hell out of those pipes and it won't sound solid.

It is definitely a cheap solution for el piping somewhere, but the real solution should have been el headers.
The pipes have cheap thin walls? I am confused.. they are? In comparison to what? Also how would a solid pipe wall vibrate?
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      11-09-2021, 12:11 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW DIY Guy View Post
The pipes have cheap thin walls? I am confused.. they are? In comparison to what? Also how would a solid pipe wall vibrate?
I'm sure youve held the midpipe in your hands. Not sure what gauge they are, but they are indeed thin and borderline flimsy. In comparison to the oem piping.
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      11-09-2021, 12:26 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atruong247 View Post
I'm sure youve held the midpipe in your hands. Not sure what gauge they are, but they are indeed thin and borderline flimsy. In comparison to the oem piping.
Hmm... wasn't my impression but again I didn't use a gauge on them either. I can check pretty easily considering I have my OEM mid (up in the garage rafters) and the single channel mid and ABs handy.

I would be rather surprised if they are "borderline flimsy" even in comparison, after handing them so many times. If I had a gauge I would measure for exact numbers.
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      11-09-2021, 02:18 PM   #22
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I have mine pretty squared away as far as heatshield clearance, but theres still the vibration at 1500ish. Now I am thinking it might be the joints at midpipe and connecting pipes are not tightened properly, because the left over condensate is dripping onto garage floor.
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