[MooMooM2]

I had a set of coil overs installed last week and went in for an alignment a few days ago. The tech came back and said they were trying to adjust the toe in the rear to get a little toe in the back and told me that one of the bolts was "seized" or stripped, I am not quite sure what word he used, showed me a video of one side doing what is suppose to do and the other not. Shop told me I need a new control arm because they can't put heat in the bolt since it is near a bushing. Likely happened because NE car, I don't drive it in winter too much but do once in a while)
I am trying to just understand the problem, I recently started to try to work on my cars, I enjoy it and like to solve problem or even just learn how things work. How does the bolt work in order to adjust toe? Say if I can remove the bolt, would I not just be able to get another bolt in there and not have to put a new arm in (which will have to be a subframe drop, they quoted me a price but not sure they are aware the subframe has to drop a bit to remove the arm).
They told they used a long wrench and the bolt was not budging so I am assuming the nut is just seized, how does one adjust toe exactly?


Been trying to find some videos on rear control arms to get an understanding and saw Farkles video of him swaping the oem arm to a turner. Attached the image, that bolt marked red, that is the bolt that adjusts toe right?

thank you for helping a noobie out

[RugbyBro]

It's an eccentric bolt just like the camber bolt - as you turn the bolt it moves the bolt's position on the horizontal plane, thus providing some limited range of toe adjustment. See below notice how the bolt head is not centered.

You should be able to just replace the bolt + nut if they can get it to come loose. However, it seems they can't get it loose and do not want to use heat due to the rubber bushing. In that case, you will need a new bush weather you just buy the bush or a brand new control arm because they will use heat and probably damage the current bushing.

You could use this opportunity to install an adjustable toe link w/ eccentric bolt lock-out (which locks the eccentric bolt in position, and toe is then only adjusted by lengthening or shortening the toe arm). This would allow you to run more than -2.0 camber in the rear using the stock camber bolt. This is more of a track focused mod tbh - there are both pros & cons when adding solid bushings/joints.

[MooMooM2]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

It's an eccentric bolt just like the camber bolt - as you turn the bolt it moves the bolt's position on the horizontal plane, thus providing some limited range of toe adjustment. See below notice how the bolt head is not centered.

You should be able to just replace the bolt + nut if they can get it to come loose. However, it seems they can't get it loose and do not want to use heat due to the rubber bushing. In that case, you will need a new bush weather you just buy the bush or a brand new control arm because they will use heat and probably damage the current bushing.

You could use this opportunity to install an adjustable toe link w/ eccentric bolt lock-out (which locks the eccentric bolt in position, and toe is then only adjusted by lengthening or shortening the toe arm). This would allow you to run more than -2.0 camber in the rear using the stock camber bolt. This is more of a track focused mod tbh - there are both pros & cons when adding solid bushings/joints.

so could you not just get the new bushes and bolt instead of getting a new arm? They said I need a new arm. But I guess if I can get the bolt out then I probably just need a bolt, I am going to hit it with some croil penetrating oil and see if I can get it out. They probably did not try very hard tbh since I paid for an aligment so can't see them spending too much time on it.

I do track the car so maybe I will get better control arms, I do think though that stock can go a little more than 2 but probably not much more. I am getting good wear on the rear tire at 2 so I am good with it. But if I do have to get 1 arm and dropping the subframe might as well get better control arms I guess.

Also thank you for the knowledge, appreciate it!

[medphysdave]

You don't have to drop the subframe if you don't want. Yes, you'll need to do a tiny bit of clearencing. Like removing a small piece of the heat shield. Some will say there is a right and wrong way. Blah, blah. I did it on mine and I'm pretty picky about what I will and won't do. A rock could kick up underneath the car and do more damage than what I had to do to get the bolt out without messing with the subframe. It was super easy to swap in the Turner toe arms.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by MooMooM2

so could you not just get the new bushing and bolt instead of getting a new arm? They said I need a new arm. But I guess if I can get the bolt out then I probably just need a bolt, I am going to hit it with some croil penetrating oil and see if I can get it out. They probably did not try very hard tbh since I paid for an aligment so can't see them spending too much time on it.

I do track the car so maybe I will get better control arms, I do think though that stock can go a little more than 2 but probably not much more. I am getting good wear on the rear tire at 2 so I am good with it. But if I do have to get 1 arm and dropping the subframe might as well get better control arms I guess.

Also thank you for the knowledge, appreciate it!

Hit it (top side) with some penetrating oil and blast that nut with an impact wrench if you have room to do so. If it won't come undone you may need heat which will most likely roast the bushing.

You wouldn't need a new arm per say, just a new bushing which can either be sourced as a bushing you would need to press in or a preinstalled bushing on a brand new arm.

Stock camber bolt has can go higher than -2.0 but can't do so when paired with a non-adjustable toe link. As you add camber, the wheel also toes out which is why an adjustable toe link is necessary to pull the toe back in. -2.0 is where most people max out because any more would cause unideal toe settings in the rear. Having said all that, -2.0 is pretty much where you want to be - I haven't had the need to go much higher than this.

[MooMooM2]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

You don't have to drop the subframe if you don't want. Yes, you'll need to do a tiny bit of clearencing. Like removing a small piece of the heat shield. Some will say there is a right and wrong way. Blah, blah. I did it on mine and I'm pretty picky about what I will and won't do. A rock could kick up underneath the car and do more damage than what I had to do to get the bolt out without messing with the subframe. It was super easy to swap in the Turner toe arms.

So you just cut a bit of the heat shield?

Interesting. I definitely considering putting the turner arms in if I have to absolutely get a new control arm but trying to save what I already have. I have priorities haha, I just bought and installed the coilovers, need to stop the car spending for a little bit, specially for something I don't absolutely need, but I do want the toe to be in a little bit (right now I think they said is even out a bit which is obviously not optimal).

[MooMooM2]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

Hit it (top side) with some penetrating oil and blast that nut with an impact wrench if you have room to do so. If it won't come undone you may need heat which will most likely roast the bushing.

You wouldn't need a new arm per say, just a new bushing which can either be sourced as a bushing you would need to press in or a preinstalled bushing on a brand new arm.

Stock camber bolt has can go higher than -2.0 but can't do so when paired with a non-adjustable toe link. As you add camber, the wheel also toes out which is why an adjustable toe link is necessary to pull the toe back in. -2.0 is where most people max out because any more would cause unideal toe settings in the rear. Having said all that, -2.0 is pretty much where you want to be - I haven't had the need to go much higher than this.

thank you!

Probably why they just want to get a new arm instead of dealing with pressing the bushing which is fair. But I do have some time and patience (and I do love to tinker) so I am going to try to get the bolt out and see what I can do. Heat is out of question for sure but I do have a impact that I love to use lol

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by MooMooM2

So you just cut a bit of the heat shield?

Interesting. I definitely considering putting the turner arms in if I have to absolutely get a new control arm but trying to save what I already have. I have priorities haha, I just bought and installed the coilovers, need to stop the car spending for a little bit, specially for something I don't absolutely need, but I do want the toe to be in a little bit (right now I think they said is even out a bit which is obviously not optimal).

I will say that it really removes some of the rear end squirm. The upgrade was worth more than just the adjustable toe. I picked up a used set.

Cut a little piece of the heat shield off. Get a blunt piece of wood or rubber mallet and gently tap on the corner to help flatten the area where you need clearance. Keeps the coating intact and takes 5 min. If you try to clearance with the heat shield on the thickness of that will be enough to not get clearance.

[MooMooM2]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

I will say that it really removes some of the rear end squirm. The upgrade was worth more than just the adjustable toe. I picked up a used set.

Cut a little piece of the heat shield off. Get a blunt piece of wood or rubber mallet and gently tap on the corner to help flatten the area where you need clearance. Keeps the coating intact and takes 5 min. If you try to clearance with the heat shield on the thickness of that will be enough to not get clearance.

Yeah I saw on Farkles video that its pretty tight in there, probably to both get a tool in there to get the bolt to clear. Good to know it makes a pretty big difference, I will put it on the upgrade list (which might come in earlier than later lol)

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by MooMooM2

Yeah I saw on Farkles video that its pretty tight in there, probably to both get a tool in there to get the bolt to clear. Good to know it makes a pretty big difference, I will put it on the upgrade list (which might come in earlier than later lol)

The bolt will be loose well before you run out of room with a socket. Especially a swivel socket or extension. It's just that the bolt is so long. Once you get both sides of the arm loose you can twist it a bit to get a little extra downward angle for clearance.

[MooMooM2]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

The bolt will be loose well before you run out of room with a socket. Especially a swivel socket or extension. It's just that the bolt is so long. Once you get both sides of the arm loose you can twist it a bit to get a little extra downward angle for clearance.

I see what you mean, you kinda twist it down so that you only have to cut the heat shield and not the battery compartment

[David1]

Penetrant and heat and it will come right off. I heat suspension bushings all the time no problem. Just don’t heat it to the point where it starts to smolder. Only heat the bolt and nut and have a water spray bottle handy. I just went through this with the rear tow arm on my Volvo with 100k on it and four winters. PB Blaster and let it sit overnight and heat from one of those portable propane torches. 5 min of patience with it and keeping the bushinf wet and and the nut loosened right up. On some cars though like an S2000, the front arm bushing is a bitch. The bolt corrodes to the sleeve and there is nothing you do with that scenario but burn it out and cut the arm off.

[MooMooM2]

Originally Posted by David1

Penetrant and heat and it will come right off. I heat suspension bushings all the time no problem. Just don’t heat it to the point where it starts to smolder. Only heat the bolt and nut and have a water spray bottle handy. I just went through this with the rear tow arm on my Volvo with 100k on it and four winters. PB Blaster and let it sit overnight and heat from one of those portable propane torches. 5 min of patience with it and keeping the bushinf wet and and the nut loosened right up. On some cars though like an S2000, the front arm bushing is a bitch. The bolt corrodes to the sleeve and there is nothing you do with that scenario but burn it out and cut the arm off.

I might give it a shot, nothing to loose really, if heat damages it then can just get the new control arm. I just feel like they did not want to do it