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      12-16-2019, 03:21 PM   #771
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahn360Photo View Post
On another note, lease deals on m3/4 cs have been steals lately so not sure if this car is even worth it.
M2 residuals will prevent leasing this car. They are horrible, always have been.

Pay cash or get a conventional loan.
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      12-16-2019, 03:22 PM   #772
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So technical $84,595 before any options.

Some will be spending $100k+ out the door with tax/fees/options.
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      12-16-2019, 03:22 PM   #773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
You might as well try to explain quantum physics to a pig.

Some people are not very intelligent. This is the same crowd that said that for 130k they've buy a GT3 instead of a M4 GTS... ignoring that over in the real world you need ~150 for a 911 GTS and more like 200k for a GT3.

A Cayman S with normal options is close to 100k... I don't know why anyone feels the M2 CS is overpriced.


There are some disgusting P car fanboys that for whatever reason what to stick around the M forums. God knows why. If I had a Camaro and there was some asshat in the Camaro forum going on and on and on about how wonderful M cars are... I'd seriously wonder about them.

Everyone just adores how Porsche will sell a 4 banger Cayman S to you for 100k and praise how wonderful it is... now don't complain when BMW takes a page out of their book and starts offering seven thousand versions of their M cars.
Perhaps they have both? Or have had both? Or like both?

I tried to provide my own personal perspective on this topic (having owned one P car and several BMWs) further back in the thread, but I think the main reason people get bent out of shape over the price of the CS is due to the basic perception of what makes sense to spend on a Porsche vs. a BMW.

I also don't think you'd have this outcry if the M2C never existed - getting the S55 for a 5K raise over the OG M2 is quite the steal...and adding 25K for the CS raises some valid questions about the success of the CS pricing formula (the market clearly spoke for the F80 and F82 CS, which didn't "move" until considerable discounts were applied).

The car will likely be brilliant, but the classic M formula is being stretched to its respective max here (M, to me anyway, has presented a value proposition in comparison to the Porsche alternatives). It's hard to argue that value proposition with an 85K M2 variant. Just my $.02....
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      12-16-2019, 03:25 PM   #774
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
I also don't think you'd have this outcry if the M2C never existed - getting the S55 for a 5K raise over the OG M2 is quite the steal...and adding 25K for the CS raises some valid questions about the success of the CS pricing formula (the market clearly spoke for the F80 and F82 CS, which didn't "move" until considerable discounts were applied).

The car will likely be brilliant, but the classic M formula is being stretched to its respective max here (M, to me anyway, has presented a value proposition in comparison to the Porsche alternatives). It's hard to argue that value proposition with an 85K M2 variant. Just my $.02....
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      12-16-2019, 03:34 PM   #775
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Perhaps they have both? Or have had both? Or like both?

I tried to provide my own personal perspective on this topic (having owned one P car and several BMWs) further back in the thread, but I think the main reason people get bent out of shape over the price of the CS is due to the basic perception of what makes sense to spend on a Porsche vs. a BMW.

I also don't think you'd have this outcry if the M2C never existed - getting the S55 for a 5K raise over the OG M2 is quite the steal...and adding 25K for the CS raises some valid questions about the success of the CS pricing formula (the market clearly spoke for the F80 and F82 CS, which didn't "move" until considerable discounts were applied).

The car will likely be brilliant, but the classic M formula is being stretched to its respective max here (M, to me anyway, has presented a value proposition in comparison to the Porsche alternatives). It's hard to argue that value proposition with an 85K M2 variant. Just my $.02....
You don't sound like a fanboy

For sure there has always been a certain 'value' proposition with M cars. Now they are experimenting with higher and higher pricing for doing tweaks. You could argue that the most beloved car company for many forum people, Porsche, does the same thing.

Those tweaks are noticeable, in the same way a Cayman GTS feels different than a Cayman S... but are they worth the $?

The CS formula is expensive, for sure. It's also stuff that you don't find in many paper competitors. How many cars for 84k have a CF hood and roof?

The market has certainly spoken regarding the M3/4 CS. Badge envy is real. I don't find they were overpriced and have an M3 CS, but clearly most people did.
I've always thought they should have a comp package as well as a 'comp comp package' which is what the CS brings to the table.

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      12-16-2019, 03:37 PM   #776
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jblack4083 View Post
MAYBE one of the upper end 718 variants fits the bill but, once again we're back into the 100k range with the GT4 and other models.
718 GTS is M2 CS lever performance. Starts at $80k. Plenty of room to add $5-10k options and be in M2 CS price range. Discounts on 718 are readily available too. Then you have other regions like the UK, the M2 CS is within a couple £100 of the 718 GT4. 718 Spyder is actually less expensive.
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      12-16-2019, 03:40 PM   #777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
You don't sound like a fanboy

For sure there has always been a certain 'value' proposition with M cars. Now they are experimenting with higher and higher pricing for doing tweaks. You could argue that the most beloved car company for many forum people, Porsche, does the same thing.

Those tweaks are noticeable, in the same way a Cayman GTS feels different than a Cayman S... but are they worth the $?

The CS formula is expensive, for sure. It's also stuff that you don't find in many paper competitors. How many cars for 84k have a CF hood and roof?

The market has certainly spoken regarding the M3/4 CS. Bad envy is real. I don't find they were overpriced and have an M3 CS, but clearly most people did.
I've always thought they should have a comp package as well as a 'comp comp package' which is what the CS brings to the table.
It's funny you mention the Cayman S vs. GTS - I made the mistake of getting a 981CS and trying to "build" it into a GTS. That was very costly.

The CS formula is awesome when you look at how they've distinguished the M2 variety...CF roof, 763Ms standard, working vent on the hood, etc...it's just the price that holds me back. Like I said, I think the car will be brilliant, I just can't bring myself to spend that much on an M2 (my wife has an OG M2 in the garage, and my dad has one too), and I have a spot.

My original estimate, way back when the CS was first rumored, was 85K. But I had hoped I would be wrong, and that BMW would have learned from the F80/82 CS pricing experiment. I was hoping for low to mid 70s, which I would gladly pay.

PS - the M3CS is the best sounding S55...I have an F80 ZCP, so I would know.
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      12-16-2019, 03:43 PM   #778
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieGrüneHölle View Post
718 GTS is M2 CS lever performance. Starts at $80k. Plenty of room to add $5-10k options and be in M2 CS price range. Discounts on 718 are readily available too. Then you have other regions like the UK, the M2 CS is within a couple £100 of the 718 GT4. 718 Spyder is actually less expensive.
But the 2 cars aren't really similar, at all. FR TT i6 vs MR T H4... Former has 4 seats and a huge trunk, latter has only 2 seats and no trunk. Former is limited production, latter is not. I'm failing to see why these comparisons are being made, other than from a price point. I HIGHLY doubt anyone who is buying the M2CS is also cross shopping a 718, or any car for that matter. The prospective buyers know what they want, are most likely willing to pay the premium for the CS.

Hell, why not throw in a new GT500, or a Hellcat, since they're about the same price...? Well, because they're not the same, at all.
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      12-16-2019, 03:51 PM   #779
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I'd predicted $85k. Was close.

These will be sitting around lots for a while at that price. There are plenty of M2Cs sitting around dealers now—-not exactly sure what BMW are expecting to happen here.

They will be a decent buy in low $70k range.

Cool car; but not at $80K+.
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      12-16-2019, 03:51 PM   #780
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieGrüneHölle View Post
M2 residuals will prevent leasing this car. They are horrible, always have been.

Pay cash or get a conventional loan.
Yup completely different situation from the M3/M4 CS. Leasing an M2 is pointless, lease numbers are terrible. 2018 inventory sat on dealer lots for ever and BMW still didn't adjust lease numbers.
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      12-16-2019, 03:53 PM   #781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conissah View Post
But the 2 cars aren't really similar, at all. FR TT i6 vs MR T H4... Former has 4 seats and a huge trunk, latter has only 2 seats and no trunk. Former is limited production, latter is not. I'm failing to see why these comparisons are being made, other than from a price point. I HIGHLY doubt anyone who is buying the M2CS is also cross shopping a 718, or any car for that matter. The prospective buyers know what they want, are most likely willing to pay the premium for the CS.

Hell, why not throw in a new GT500, or a Hellcat, since they're about the same price...? Well, because they're not the same, at all.
I cross shopped a Cayman and M2 before. Seen many threads debating between the two. Cayman actually has a lot of useful storage with frunk and trunk. Back seats in M2 are useless to me since I don't have toddlers or little people friends.
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      12-16-2019, 03:53 PM   #782
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
It's funny you mention the Cayman S vs. GTS - I made the mistake of getting a 981CS and trying to "build" it into a GTS. That was very costly.

The CS formula is awesome when you look at how they've distinguished the M2 variety...CF roof, 763Ms standard, working vent on the hood, etc...it's just the price that holds me back. Like I said, I think the car will be brilliant, I just can't bring myself to spend that much on an M2 (my wife has an OG M2 in the garage, and my dad has one too), and I have a spot.

My original estimate, way back when the CS was first rumored, was 85K. But I had hoped I would be wrong, and that BMW would have learned from the F80/82 CS pricing experiment. I was hoping for low to mid 70s, which I would gladly pay.

PS - the M3CS is the best sounding S55...I have an F80 ZCP, so I would know.
I've built an E90 GTS... also very costly!!!! but entertaining as well!
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      12-16-2019, 03:55 PM   #783
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
I cross shopped a Cayman and M2 before. Seen many threads debating between the two. Cayman actually has a lot of useful storage with frunk and trunk. Back seats in M2 are useless to me since I don't have toddlers or little people friends.
The rear seats are incredibly useful... IDK what you're talking about. My 6' tall self can easily get in the back and sit comfortably. The same cannot be said for my G35, where I would have to sit with my head sideways against the roof.
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      12-16-2019, 04:01 PM   #784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
I cross shopped a Cayman and M2 before. Seen many threads debating between the two. Cayman actually has a lot of useful storage with frunk and trunk. Back seats in M2 are useless to me since I don't have toddlers or little people friends.
Yes sir...basically two trunks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conissah View Post
But the 2 cars aren't really similar, at all. FR TT i6 vs MR T H4... Former has 4 seats and a huge trunk, latter has only 2 seats and no trunk. Former is limited production, latter is not. I'm failing to see why these comparisons are being made, other than from a price point. I HIGHLY doubt anyone who is buying the M2CS is also cross shopping a 718, or any car for that matter. The prospective buyers know what they want, are most likely willing to pay the premium for the CS.
Cayman storage - 15 cu ft
M2 storage - 13.8 cu ft
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      12-16-2019, 04:12 PM   #785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieGrüneHölle View Post
Yes sir...basically two trunks.

Cayman storage - 15 cu ft
M2 storage - 13.8 cu ft
+1 on the Cayman storage - I once moved my lady's entire wardrobe in my 981. Well, except her shoes.
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      12-16-2019, 04:12 PM   #786
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Regardless of the debate, comparison and sticker-shock here, I still believe the CS is priced below the competition and there are more than enough people out there that would snatch up the limited number of units..
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      12-16-2019, 04:27 PM   #787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Regardless of the debate, comparison and sticker-shock here, I still believe the CS is priced below the competition and there are more than enough people out there that would snatch up the limited number of units..
Agreed, BMWBlog's article guesses 350-400 units coming to the US. That means high volume dealers may see 2 or 3 units. Most stores will get 1 or none at all! Any units that aren't already sold are going to get snatched up in dealer trading. I really don't see them sitting on lots. With that low of production coming here the price will have less to do with it.

I'm still in!
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      12-16-2019, 04:42 PM   #788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osizeit View Post
Udpated December 16, 2019 with official pricing announcement (confirming $83,600 MSRP):
http://www.bmwusanews.com/newsrelease.do?id=3515

I went to the LA Autoshow this morning to see the M2 CS (since I have a reservation), and to get some pricing.

Pricing was just shared with them last night, US base model is $83,600.

I had previously set my ceiling at $80k but it's so close that I'm moving forward with the purchase anyhow.

Production and Delivery estimates seem unchanged but likely sooner from what they were saying.
Damn you can get an M4 for that
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      12-16-2019, 05:13 PM   #789
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Damn you can get an M4 for that
No, it is M4 Competition priced.
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      12-16-2019, 05:21 PM   #790
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Really eager to see the M/T vs DCT take rate.

I see the M/T availablilty one of the only reasons why this could have any more success over the M4cs..
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      12-16-2019, 05:29 PM   #791
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If all of the standard features were options.. my rough math puts it at $5k over what it should be. I'm guessing that difference is the attempt to recoup R&D costs.
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      12-16-2019, 05:38 PM   #792
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Quote:
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If all of the standard features were options.. my rough math puts it at $5k over what it should be. I'm guessing that difference is the attempt to recoup R&D costs.
There is hardly any R&D cost. All the parts are from other cars. This is a parts bin car.
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