[10"]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

I believe your E90 M3 figure is missing a digit.... this page shows E90 M3 for USA at 25,672

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=863761

E28 M5: 1340
E30 M3: 4996
Z3MC: 2858
E46 M3: 26202
Z4MC: 1815
E90 M3: 25672
E39 M5: 9992
Z8: 2543
1M: 740
BMW M2: 5823

No. My E90 M3 data is correct. If you add E92 M3 it's much more. I was trying to show some models that are considered "less common". Some as you can see are artificially considered less common (E46 M3 was sold in huge numbers in the US and isn't rare at all) while others are actually crazy rare (1M).

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by seis-speed

This is why M2's were hard to test drive. Buyers had to sort of buy into the reviews.
I know some claim they are "everywhere", uh no, they are not, your local dealer may have had a couple, but that is generally an isolated case.

even if your local dealer has SIX on the lot.. it just meant that many others had none.

I really cant tell you how many jackwagons on this forum that were screaming " it's NOT LIMITED ".. back in 2016.. 2017 (when production was ALLEGEDLY RAMPED UP) and even today in 2018.

All the While I KNEW that production was TINY... I would have loved to have the exact production figures to smack them in the face with..

" NOT Limited " my arse..

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by 10"

No. My E90 M3 data is correct. If you add E92 M3 it's much more. I was trying to show some models that are considered "less common". Some as you can see are artificially considered less common (E46 M3 was sold in huge numbers in the US and isn't rare at all) while others are actually crazy rare (1M).

gotcha.. I did find that... and edited my post.. and also did include the full E9X production..

I think it's important to show how FEW M2 are available compared to the E46 M3, E92 M3 (coupe) and the F80 M4....

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by SickFinga

25,672 is the total number of the NA-spec E9x M3 without the E93 M3 LCI

if you've got the exact figure.. don't hold back..

[JacobBMW14]

For record and comparison, total number of M2C allocations released for the U.S. was 512. I asked my local dealership when they expected the next round of allocations to be released and he said 4th quarter and didn’t expert more allocations that previously released. So simply doubling the number would put it at 1024 for 2018.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by m34m

Heard it all before don't care. It's an automatic man your grandmother could drive it. Manual forever.

My grandmother drives a manual.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

even if your local dealer has SIX on the lot.. it just meant that many others had none.

I really cant tell you how many jackwagons on this forum that were screaming " it's NOT LIMITED ".. back in 2016.. 2017 (when production was ALLEGEDLY RAMPED UP) and even today in 2018.

All the While I KNEW that production was TINY... I would have loved to have the exact production figures to smack them in the face with..

" NOT Limited " my arse..

Well...it wasn’t limited. That doesn’t mean it wasn’t hard to get, at least until very recently.

[atlas]

Is it possible to see the actual raw numbers for the country take rates? Thanks for doing this!

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Well...it wasn't limited. That doesn't mean it wasn't hard to get, at least until very recently.

Did you notice how The NA production figures are 3495 and 3493 for the pre-LCi. There was a limit. It just wasn't PUBLISHED.


Don't be a jack wagon!

it's clear that the DEMAND for M2 is FAR higher than what the actual SALES volume will represent. As I have stated all along about the M2... BMW would rather sell customers an M3 and an M4... and the easiest way to drive customers towards those models is to LIMIT the output of the M2 such that customers.

With US production CONSTRICTED to BELOW 2000 vehicles a year (but not disclosed to the public) .. hunderds if not THOUSANDS of buyers eventually decided to F off and buy an M3 or M4.

The reason I want to state HOW AND WHY this is occurring.. is because I fully anticipate that this may be the ONLY 2 series coupe..

BMW will have a business case (Look we only sold 6000 of those M2 across 3 years) to NOT produce an M2 in the future.. just as BMW was ATTEMPTING To make a business case to ELIMINATE THE MANUAL due to an ALLEGEDLY low Take rate. Production data shows the plans they wont disclose..


If M2 production was truly unlimited , buyers would be able to pickup one at any time.

Sales of the iPhone, for example are unlimited. And so are lays potato chips. they'll make more.



BMW AG started M2 production at a crawl and stated that they " ramped up production " and somehow sold the same 3500 in LCI form.

I'm looking for M4 production numbers - that's a truly unlimited production vehicle.



I did find this interesting that they plan on selling 3000 M4 CS...

https://www.motor1.com/news/143274/b...n-numbers/amp/

[SickFinga]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

if you've got the exact figure.. don't hold back..

It's all in that thread. OP just didn't not update the pdf

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=173

Originally Posted by SickFinga

Lets finish it up

2011-2013 BMW M3 Convertible LCI (DX93) - NA
Total: 4584
DCT: 3676
6SPD: 908

2010-2013 BMW M3 Convertible LCI (DX91) - ECE
Total: 2586
DCT: 2471
6SPD: 115

2010-2013 BMW M3 Convertible LCI (DX92) - RHD
Total: 1188
DCT: 1132
6SPD: 56

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=174

Originally Posted by SickFinga

Alpine White 3 (300) - 794
Azurite Black Metallic (S34) - 15
Interlagos Blue Metallic (A30) - 195
Jerez Black Metallic (A73) - 1090
Jet Black (668) - 690
Le Mans Blue Metallic (381) - 184
Melbourne Red Metallic (A75) - 163
Mineral White Metallic (A96) - 548
Moon Stone Metallic (S37/X04) - 5
Ruby Black Metallic (X03) - 17
Silverstone 2 Metallic (A29) - 317
Space Grey Metallic (A52) - 509
Special Paint (490) - 57

Special Paint (490)

Aegean Blue Metallic (336) - 1
Atacama Yellow (B21) - 3
Blue Onyx Metallic (S11) - 1
Blue Water Metallic (896) - 1
Brilliant White Metallic (U21) - 4
Dakar Yellow 2 (337) - 5
Fire Orange 2 (U94) - 7
Frozen Black Metallic (U91) - 9
Frozen Brilliant White Metallic (W93) - 1
Frozen Grey Metallic (U83) - 7
Frozen Silver Metallic (W07) - 1
Imola Red 2 (405) - 1
Laguna Seca Blue (448) - 1
Lipstick (W88) - 1
Liquid Blue Metallic (B40) - 1
Monte Carlo Blue Metallic (B05) - 3
Platinum Bronze Metallic (A53) - 1
Ruby Black Metallic (X03) - 1
San Marino Blue Metallic (B51) - 2
Santorini Blue 2 (327) - 1
Speed Yellow (U96) - 1
Titanium Silver Metallic (354) - 1
Valencia Orange Metallic (B44) - 2
UNKNOWN COLOR - 1

[10"]

Originally Posted by SickFinga

All those numbers are for the US and Canadian markets except for the 1M which uses the wrong US number. The correct number for the 1M is 761 for the US and 222 for Canada.

Production numbers YES. Number sold NO. Some of those cars were pre-production, crash testing cars, media cars. 740 were *sold* in the US...

[shatty]

Whoever the F says manual is dying is an ass. Basically 50/50. This should tell BMM not to kill the manuals and produce more cars with.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Did you notice how The NA production figures are 3495 and 3493 for the pre-LCi. There was a limit. It just wasn't PUBLISHED.


Don't be a jack wagon!

it's clear that the DEMAND for M2 is FAR higher than what the actual SALES volume will represent. As I have stated all along about the M2... BMW would rather sell customers an M3 and an M4... and the easiest way to drive customers towards those models is to LIMIT the output of the M2 such that customers.

With US production CONSTRICTED to BELOW 2000 vehicles a year (but not disclosed to the public) .. hunderds if not THOUSANDS of buyers eventually decided to F off and buy an M3 or M4.

The reason I want to state HOW AND WHY this is occurring.. is because I fully anticipate that this may be the ONLY 2 series coupe..

BMW will have a business case (Look we only sold 6000 of those M2 across 3 years) to NOT produce an M2 in the future.. just as BMW was ATTEMPTING To make a business case to ELIMINATE THE MANUAL due to an ALLEGEDLY low Take rate. Production data shows the plans they wont disclose..


If M2 production was truly unlimited , buyers would be able to pickup one at any time.

Sales of the iPhone, for example are unlimited. And so are lays potato chips. they'll make more.



BMW AG started M2 production at a crawl and stated that they " ramped up production " and somehow sold the same 3500 in LCI form.

I'm looking for M4 production numbers - that's a truly unlimited production vehicle.



I did find this interesting that they plan on selling 3000 M4 CS...

https://www.motor1.com/news/143274/b...n-numbers/amp/

Not being a jack wagon. we have similar views, but I think my perspective is just slightly different than yours.

BMW doesn't want to sell you an M3 or M4 instead of an M2...they have to sell more of the former. Because the profit margins are significantly better - they have a much wider window so to speak, in terms of potentially getting the number produced "right" versus the number demanded. And even if they happen to produce too many, or are at the end of a run like the F80, they can discount the piss out of an M3/4....and still make money. Not the case with the M2.

I think this sort of incremental ramp up for the small, not so practical M cars started with the Z4MC. Arguably the best M car I've ever driven, and yet the take rate wasn't as high as BMW anticipated. And so they were still sitting on lots, even with 10K off stickers on the window. BMW wasn't going to allow that to happen again, but they knew there was a market for a small M car - albeit in similarly small, measured numbers...look at your 1M - it was the next small M car after the Z4MC...and it almost didn't happen, because I think BMW was still gun shy. And then when it did happen it WAS actually limited.

BMW knows the market is there, but they will be damned sure they don't overshoot it...with the 1M, OG M2, M2C, or anything else that comes along and fills that smaller, less profitable niche.

[SickFinga]

Originally Posted by 10"

Production numbers YES. Number sold NO. Some of those cars were pre-production, crash testing cars, media cars. 740 were *sold* in the US...

Pre-production, media cars usually end up sold to the public. Why should they be discounted?

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Not being a jack wagon. we have similar views, but I think my perspective is just slightly different than yours.

BMW doesn't want to sell you an M3 or M4 instead of an M2...they have to sell more of the former. Because the profit margins are significantly better - they have a much wider window so to speak, in terms of potentially getting the number produced "right" versus the number demanded. And even if they happen to produce too many, or are at the end of a run like the F80, they can discount the piss out of an M3/4....and still make money. Not the case with the M2.

I think this sort of incremental ramp up for the small, not so practical M cars started with the Z4MC. Arguably the best M car I've ever driven, and yet the take rate wasn't as high as BMW anticipated. And so they were still sitting on lots, even with 10K off stickers on the window. BMW wasn't going to allow that to happen again, but they knew there was a market for a small M car - albeit in similarly small, measured numbers...look at your 1M - it was the next small M car after the Z4MC...and it almost didn't happen, because I think BMW was still gun shy. And then when it did happen it WAS actually limited.

BMW knows the market is there, but they will be damned sure they don't overshoot it...with the 1M, OG M2, M2C, or anything else that comes along and fills that smaller, less profitable niche.

Correct. Exactly. Agreed.

It's a marketing decision from the beginning on whether or not they plan to make 10,000 or 50,000... ( perhaps it was 10,000 a year ? which we have heard was the original plan.. and that means they doggedly stuck to it ... )

2 series sales were constructed from the jump.. there was never a plan to make an M2 vert.. and of course the entire 2er lineup is short shrift and bereft of a sedan in any variant... oh wait .. the FWD is being rushed to Mexico and now to the US some 5 years later ....


So.. the plan has been from the beginning to sell M3 and M4 and LIMIT the sales of the M2.

Agree 100 percent also that BMW chose to LIMIT the sales of the M2 in such a fashion as to not leave cars on the lot. A very slow beginning or production... with a slight spurt in the middle .. and then production dialed back down as the info on the M2 completion leaked out.

Based on the fact that an M2 racing may replace the M235 racing .. I'm gonna ride this M2 train and try and get on at the last stop.. when an M2 CSL dribbles out of the factory... hopefully after an M2 CS -DCT ONLY.

If the M2 racing is based upon the M2 then I anticipate that their will be a homologation run of M2 CSL similar to the way that the BMW sport evo was made. Hopefully the number will be at a LIMIT hear 500 and they will need to make them in both MT and DCT to sell enough ... perhaps with like a 50/50 split ...

[analogue]

Originally Posted by 10"

Production numbers YES. Number sold NO. Some of those cars were pre-production, crash testing cars, media cars. 740 were *sold* in the US...

761 were built, 750 were imported for sale. Just because BMWNA was the original owner of the press cars doesn't mean they weren't "sold". Some of those cars are now privately owned.

https://www.1addicts.com/forums/show...4#post22969944

[10"]

Originally Posted by SickFinga

Pre-production, media cars usually end up sold to the public. Why should they be discounted?

they're not discounted. they're destroyed

nobody sells pre-production, test cars, or media cars to the public...they don't go into circulation or ownership.

EDIT: just reading the link you provided. how do you have proof that one of the press cars was sold to the public? how did that owners know it was a press car? In general these cars are not sold. IF they were, i would imagine a BMW exec got one somehow and then sold it later on. you may also be thinking of some of the performance center cars which were USED by BMW and then later resold to the general public? Those were not press cars, as i recall. I had almost bought one back in the day but found out it had bodywork done to it...Perillo BMW in Chicago had accumulated a few of them.

[analogue]

Originally Posted by 10"

EDIT: just reading the link you provided. how do you have proof that one of the press cars was sold to the public? how did that owners know it was a press car? In general these cars are not sold. IF they were, i would imagine a BMW exec got one somehow and then sold it later on...

Look at the options spreadsheet linked in the first post of that thread.

WBSUR9C59BVP75916 was built with option code S902A which is prep for a press car. This is one of the 10 cars people exclude to get down to 740.

Look at the Carfax attached for this VIN.

It was originally registered as a corporate fleet car in Woodcliff Lake, NJ (BMWNA headquarters).
After use as a press car it was auctioned in Feb 2012 where only dealers could buy it.
BMW Irvine was the buyer at auction. They prepped the car and sold it to an individual in April 2012.

The spreadsheet also identifies the 8 performance center cars.

[SickFinga]

Originally Posted by 10"

they're not discounted. they're destroyed

nobody sells pre-production, test cars, or media cars to the public...they don't go into circulation or ownership.

EDIT: just reading the link you provided. how do you have proof that one of the press cars was sold to the public? how did that owners know it was a press car? In general these cars are not sold. IF they were, i would imagine a BMW exec got one somehow and then sold it later on...

Run the VIN, it says it's a press car. You are highly mistaken. Pre-production, press, exhibit cars constantly end up in public hands. In some cases even test mules and prototypes end up in public hands.

BMW M6 test mule built on top of a 635CSi

Another test mule. 850CSi built on top of an 850i.

When you get a pre-production car, you sometimes end up with some rare options, like this E39 M5

Pre-production E46 M3

Pre-production E36 M3 Sedan. This is the only E36 M3 Sedan built for the Canadian market with an automatic transmission. Automatic transmission was never available on the E36 outside US.

This is straight up a concept car. It's a 325i Convertible with all-wheel drive(never available on the convertibles) and E30 M3 body.

[ZPrime]

Forgive me if I missed prior discussion of this, but I found it fairly odd... looking at NAR-spec only here: both 2016 and 2017 (pre-LCI) production combined, totaled not-quite 3500 cars... but 2018 alone hit about the same number?

How does that happen? Even if the 2016 run took a while to ramp up, I would think they'd be at full speed by 2017 and be able to hit a higher number then, and two years combined should add up to more than 2018 alone, no?

[SickFinga]

Originally Posted by ZPrime

Forgive me if I missed prior discussion of this, but I found it fairly odd... looking at NAR-spec only here: both 2016 and 2017 (pre-LCI) production combined, totaled not-quite 3500 cars... but 2018 alone hit about the same number?

How does that happen? Even if the 2016 run took a while to ramp up, I would think they'd be at full speed by 2017 and be able to hit a higher number then, and two years combined should add up to more than 2018 alone, no?

Officially SOP for the MY2016 started on 11/15. However, this is when BMW started building press, dealer presentation, photo and exhibition cars. The actual customer cars started rolling from the factory from around 02/2016. MY2016 ended in June 2016. So, even though it pre-LCI had two model years, it wasn't exactly 24 months in production.

Here is another example, E93 M3 LCI, MY2011 lasted 16 months, MY2012 lasted 10 months, MY2013 lasted 16 months. As you can't see you can't really compare model year to model year when it comes to production numbers

[Alexxxx]

• BMW M2 Coupe F87 •

- A Modern Car That Will be Future Classic

- The car has very good engine sound, aggressive looking, perfect dimensions, a very good power-to-weight and weight distribution front/rear.

- Built only between 2016 to 2018 at Low Production Numbers the car will become Collectibles.