07-11-2020, 01:06 AM | #67 |
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Some extra info:
1) This shows some discussion of the difference between MSP/A and SAF-XJ. It is still inconclusive why BMW switched fluids. I personally will be sticking to MSP/A since I am afraid of how finnicky these diffs are, which is why I am not going with an aftermarket diff oil like I normally do. SAF-XJ from bmw should be an ok alternative same as castrol syntrax if you want alternatives. https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...&postcount=202 2) This was quoted on the m4 forum about BMW addressing the wrong fluid fill https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1516283 M2, M3, M4 – INCORRECT FLUID USED TO REFILL THE REAR DIFFERENTIAL MODEL F80 (M3) F82, F83 (M4) F87 (M2) situation BMW quality monitoring of the MSport differentials being replaced under warranty discovered a significant number of these differentials failed because the incorrect fluid used during the 1,200 miles Maintenance Service. In many cases, technicians replaced the fluid with wrong oil, SAF-XJ+FM Boosted oil (P/N 83 22 2 282 583), which is designed specifically ONLY to be used in the previous generation M3 (E90/E92/93) vehicles. Consequently, reduced performance, premature wear and excessive noise complaints were experienced. INFORMATION For the M2 (F87), M3 (F80) and M4 (F82, F83) vehicles, ONLY use: Synthetic MPS/A BMW Final Drive Gear Oil (PN 83 22 2 357 992, 1 liter) during a 1,200 ml. Maintenance Service or after a differential replacement. warranty information Warranty claims for 1,200 mile Maintenance Services and/or subsequent replacements of the MSport rear axle differential where the incorrect differential oil was use for refilling during the repair will be rejected and/or debited back to your center.
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07-11-2020, 01:25 AM | #68 | ||
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07-11-2020, 02:27 AM | #69 |
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07-11-2020, 10:37 AM | #70 |
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I think all the US BMWs are using this. Just checked my neighbors 2020 M4s vin, realoem shows different part number than what was used on his 1200 miles service 2 weeks ago. His is a lease and he don't care lol.
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07-11-2020, 02:40 PM | #71 | |
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But lol, if it's a lease SAF-XO is ok too lol.
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07-11-2020, 06:25 PM | #74 | |
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But it is becoming more apparent that SAF-XJ is widely used in USA dealerships over MSP/A, and MSP/A is not even available for purchase. For European and Canadians MSP/A is more widely available.
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07-23-2020, 04:10 PM | #75 |
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I've been talking to BMW NA since this event and today they just finally told me there was nothing they are going to do for me since it was a dealer error.
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07-23-2020, 04:33 PM | #76 | |
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You gotta fight with your dealer then, tell them you want extended warranty because that debacle could cause the rear diff to fail prematurely. I doubt they will do it, but worth a shot. Just remember for future events don't leave the lot till you carefully read through the service report and check all p/n. Then look under the hood before and after engine start up to ensure no leaks. If you are crazy like me then follow up with an obd2 scan with ISTA and have all the parking lot attendants look at you funny lol.
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07-24-2020, 07:07 AM | #77 |
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Just finished reading this thread. This is beyond frustrating. Such incompetence on the part of your dealer. Hopefully no damage was done to your diff, and if it does fail, the dealer will do the right thing and cover the cost of replacement. If they give you a hard time, social media pressure can do wonders in your favor.
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08-06-2020, 09:03 AM | #78 |
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Adding another data-point since I had the running in check done yesterday on my 2020 M2 Comp @ about 1,100 miles.
Final drive oil used by my dealer: 83-22-2-357-992 SAF-XJ : 832514 |
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08-06-2020, 04:50 PM | #79 |
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very interesting, thanks for you data point! It is strange that the US dealers do not have access to MSP/A.
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08-22-2020, 10:55 AM | #80 |
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SAF-XJ is at least the correct viscosity (75W-140), and designed for use in limited slip differentials.
My Warranty Invoice from the Running In Service shows they used SAF-XO which is 75W-90 and not designed for use in limited slip differentials. End of warranty check on Wednesday is going to be interesting... |
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08-22-2020, 12:42 PM | #81 | |
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It is also insanely concerning that so many dealers are messing up simple diff fluid flushes with fluid that is not even remotely close for use. I can sort of understand why dealers used to mess up by using SAF-XJ + FM because this fluid was used on the E9x m3's limited slip diff and is very close to the saf-xj required for the F series M diff. But SAF-XO is used just on regular bmws and shouldn't ever be used on an lsd. So unless the tech is absolutely idiotic and incompetent and did not run through the ista protocols for diff flushes and went with what was in his mind (in this case what they normally did for normal bmws) there should be absolutely no reason for this mess up. This is what really infuriates me about dealers and the idiots they let work as techs, especially since you are the second case in which the wrong diff oil was used. So I really should give my own dealer some credit, I never really trusted any dealer even my own but after looking at all the work they have done on my car and other cars (a local m2 had a serpentine belt break and get sucked into the engine through the front crank seal and this dealer repaired it) without any issues and everything done to ista protocol (including torque specs which is rare to see as techs normally go hand tight and never use torque wrenches) I really do appreciate and trust my dealer now. Also if you plan on keeping the car long term you need to some how get the dealer to warranty the diff long term. Could you also keep me posted on the servicing they do (oil change etc) for the final service? I am interested as well since my final service is coming up.
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08-22-2020, 04:46 PM | #82 |
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BMW's MSP/A and Castrol's SAF-XJ are interchangeable:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...ide/1VndHi1Cfw |
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08-22-2020, 05:17 PM | #83 |
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My break in sheet says they used 07512293972 just like JustinHEMI
This was 3 years ago, lol. Guessing/hoping it's just a wrong part# on the invoice. Going to call them Monday and ask them to replace it with the correct fluid just to be safe. |
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08-22-2020, 05:18 PM | #84 | |
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1) I hate to be the guy that is ragging to stay with oem fluids but in this case after seeing so many bmw M diffs on the F series fail, and seeing bmw switch fluids to MSP/A which has a different viscosity and overall physical characteristics (as posted in the link above, and on second though I might start a thread on BOITOG to discuss this and send some oil for analysis to see what changed in the additive packs) I really did not want to risk diff failure and decided to stick with the bmw required fluid which is MSP/A. 2) I also initially wanted to run Castrol SAF-XJ but this oil is discontinued (confirmed in the call with castrol) by castrol and now only available as the reformulated castrol syntrax limited slip 75w-140 oil, which is also approved according to tis. But I called castrol to confirm this and ask if they added additional friction modifiers above what was required by the bmw spec and went all the way up their customer service ladder and they could not dig up any bmw certifications for this product after their reformulation. They even advised me to stick with the bmw suggested MSP/A. So this has me a bit worried because the TIS approved it, and normally bmw approved oils have the bmw certification letter with signatures if you email and ask the company (you can find examples of this on some of redline's oils). Overall what I suggest personally is use MSP/A if you can get it, if not dealer filled SAF-XJ should be fine as it was used before without real issues (since I believe the diff failures were clutch pack related not oil related), and if you can't get either go with the tis approved alternatives.
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08-22-2020, 05:22 PM | #85 | |
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IMO I think it has been too long for them to confirm if it was a mistaken p/n because they are supposed to enter the items used during service and that is the only record kept, and since it has been over 3 years it will be difficult to back track inventory.
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08-22-2020, 06:44 PM | #86 | |
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08-22-2020, 07:05 PM | #87 | |
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Have you tracked the car?
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08-22-2020, 07:09 PM | #88 |
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I haven't, it's just a leisurely weekender with 10k miles on the clock.
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