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      09-11-2020, 12:09 PM   #45
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None of these comparisons are really apples to apples.

2021 M2 CS DCT vs GT4 PDK would be closer.

Even more interesting will be the 2023 M2 CS on the Z4/Supra platform with the S58 twin turbo vs a 2023 Cayman GT4 flat six...both would also be interesting with a hybrid performance motor to the front wheels while getting the new engines most power to the rear...

By '25 600whp will be the norm on these cars after tunes and at that point it makes mechanical sense to put power to all wheels for traction like the upcoming G87 M4 CS and sadly i think that pure RWDs aren't great for businesses...thus the limited 200 unit 2023 Supra GRMNs will be RWD with S58s and BMW 7DCTs.

More and more the manufacturers are offering only offering "lite" versions with RWD manuals so they can price their flagships higher.

Either way we the consumer win because 3.0s 0-60 will be where the automakers will have to compete at for a ~$100k flagship 2 seater supercar killer...
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      09-11-2020, 02:35 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaley View Post
None of these comparisons are really apples to apples.

2021 M2 CS DCT vs GT4 PDK would be closer.

Even more interesting will be the 2023 M2 CS on the Z4/Supra platform with the S58 twin turbo vs a 2023 Cayman GT4 flat six...both would also be interesting with a hybrid performance motor to the front wheels while getting the new engines most power to the rear...

By '25 600whp will be the norm on these cars after tunes and at that point it makes mechanical sense to put power to all wheels for traction like the upcoming G87 M4 CS and sadly i think that pure RWDs aren't great for businesses...thus the limited 200 unit 2023 Supra GRMNs will be RWD with S58s and BMW 7DCTs.

More and more the manufacturers are offering only offering "lite" versions with RWD manuals so they can price their flagships higher.

Either way we the consumer win because 3.0s 0-60 will be where the automakers will have to compete at for a ~$100k flagship 2 seater supercar killer...
The Supra is getting the S58? I don't think so. Also, why is DCT vs PDK a better comparison vs manual?
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      09-11-2020, 03:05 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robopp View Post
The Supra is getting the S58? I don't think so. Also, why is DCT vs PDK a better comparison vs manual?
https://www.thedrive.com/news/34752/...-engine-report

Takes out driver error and in a straight up drag race they are faster than manual / highest power models will be automatics.
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      09-11-2020, 07:14 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaley View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by robopp View Post
The Supra is getting the S58? I don't think so. Also, why is DCT vs PDK a better comparison vs manual?
https://www.thedrive.com/news/34752/...-engine-report

Takes out driver error and in a straight up drag race they are faster than manual / highest power models will be automatics.
Quote from the first few sentences of the article - "First thing's first—yes, you should take this potential update with a grain of salt, because like any anonymously sourced report it could turn out to be bogus." It's not going to get a S58. Zero chance.
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      09-12-2020, 03:13 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robopp View Post
Quote from the first few sentences of the article - "First thing's first—yes, you should take this potential update with a grain of salt, because like any anonymously sourced report it could turn out to be bogus." It's not going to get a S58. Zero chance.
The DCT is the most unbelievable part, the M3/M4 don't get a S58/DCT combo but they're going to have it for a limited run Supra? And they're going to get the full Competition tuned engine in RWD when every other vehicle has it paired with AWD and the ZF 8HP?
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      09-12-2020, 10:35 AM   #50
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Having owned an M2C and now a 718 GT4 I'd say both cars are amazing. Each in there own way. Drag racing them side by side does neither car justice. Both punch above there class on track too. Just got back from 2 days at Watkins's Glen with the GT4 and I was consistently 3-4s faster than I was in my M2C. That said I also gave another M2C a point by or two out there. I love my GT4 but also loved hauling 4 extra wheels in my M2C and being comfortable for the 4-5hr drive. I read many of these comparison threads. Rather than comparing, appreciate what each brings to the table. Can't go wrong with either.
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      09-14-2020, 09:12 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by HeelToeShift View Post
I also have my name down on a GT4 RS because as much as I enjoy manual, PDK really shows you what the pinnacle and epitome of a dual clutch is and really don’t care much for the ZF8 that is proliferating every car. Nothing special about it if you’ve driven a good dual clutch.
When you get the RS, you will need to change your forum handle though.
Maybe something like LeftFootBraking is you want to stay on the cool side of things.
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      09-14-2020, 09:22 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by compguy36 View Post
Having owned an M2C and now a 718 GT4 I'd say both cars are amazing. Each in there own way. Drag racing them side by side does neither car justice. Both punch above there class on track too. Just got back from 2 days at Watkins's Glen with the GT4 and I was consistently 3-4s faster than I was in my M2C. That said I also gave another M2C a point by or two out there. I love my GT4 but also loved hauling 4 extra wheels in my M2C and being comfortable for the 4-5hr drive. I read many of these comparison threads. Rather than comparing, appreciate what each brings to the table. Can't go wrong with either.
This is the crux of it all. Very well said.

When I am at the track and it starts to rain, do all the GT3’s and GT4’s envy the fact that I put my PS4S “rain tire” on and go have fun on the track? Of course they do.

When it’s dry, do I envy that extra special driving interaction the GT3/4 has compared to my M? Of course I do.

Having inbuilt rain tires is great when it rains but when it doesn’t I do have to muck around with changing wheels. Do I envy the “arrive and drive” ease of a GT4? Of course I do.

When I take my family out on weekends and both my son and I terrify my wife on the twisty bits, am I having the cake and eating it too? Of course I do.

Incidentally due to very practical considerations I could own a GT3 but not a GT4, since to make it up the driveway the car needs to have sufficient clearance or a front end lift. Sooo many things go into making a buying decision...
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      09-14-2020, 09:24 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
This is the crux of it all. Very well said.

When I am at the track and it starts to rain, do all the GT3’s and GT4’s envy the fact that I put my PS4S “rain tire” on and go have fun on the track? Of course they do.

When it’s dry, do I envy that extra special driving interaction the GT3/4 has compared to my M? Of course I do.

Having inbuilt rain tires is great when it rains but when it doesn’t I do have to muck around with changing wheels. Do I envy the “arrive and drive” ease of a GT4? Of course I do.

When I take my family out on weekends and both my son and I terrify my wife on the twisty bits, am I having the cake and eating it too? Of course I do.

Incidentally due to very practical considerations I could own a GT3 but not a GT4, since to make it up the driveway the car needs to have sufficient clearance or a front end lift. Sooo many things go into making a buying decision...
Great comment. And I think the fact is, we are all driving (M's, GT's, BMW's, Porsche, etc) pretty damn fantastic sporting cars no matter what and getting wound up about the variation between them is missing the bounty already in hand.
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