[ZM2]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

From what's posted by the B58 guys, the TU pump Is 23% more than stock, the DS1 is 36%.

The Tu pump is really good for California people who can't upgrade the HPFP without a flash option which the TU pump allows

It functiona just like the stock HPFP, and can be tuned in relatively the same way. Yes, absolute headroom will be lower.

Old news. Not good enough for a P500 on today’s tunes, barely good enough for a stock turbo M2 and a good pump gas tune (well, good enough for crap CA 91 gas, but def not for a decent ethanol 2+ tune and turbo).

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Old news. Not good enough for a P500 on today’s tunes, barely good enough for a stock turbo M2 and a good pump gas tune (well, good enough for crap CA 91 gas, but def not for a decent ethanol 2+ tune and turbo).

The B58tu pump.will absolutely Max out the stock turbo or even an aftermarket one with pump gas.

Do you have an example of someone maxing out the pump on an E30 mix?

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

The B58tu pump.will absolutely Max out the stock turbo or even an aftermarket one with pump gas.

Do you have an example of someone maxing out the pump on an E30 mix?

You’re missing the point.

Sure, a lame mhd or other low power ethanol map will work with the b58 pump, but why then add the p500? That was the whole point of the line of questioning.

How many whp have you seen on CA 91 or ethanol with that pump? Either way, a p500 isn’t going to give you hardly anything more than the stock turbo bc you’re fueling limited.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by ZM2

You’re missing the point.

Sure, a lame mhd or other low power ethanol map will work with the b58 pump, but why then add the p500? That was the whole point of the line of questioning.

How many whp have you seen on CA 91 or ethanol with that pump? Either way, a p500 isn’t going to give you hardly anything more.

It flows 20% more than stock - it should be fine on an E50 mix. It's not for maximing out a setup, I thought that was clear from its flow numbers.

If you want high/full E, you're not going to be running just a Dorch Stage 1 either. Plan what you're doing and run the appropriate parts.

If someone is running an E30-50 tune on California crap gas and with their crap regulations, it's a great option. For people in other situations they'll have to figure something else out.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

It flows 20% more than stock - it should be fine on an E50 mix. It's not for maximing out a setup, I thought that was clear from its flow numbers.

If you want high/full E, you're not going to be running just a Dorch Stage 1 either. Plan what you're doing and run the appropriate parts.

If someone is running an E30-50 tune on California crap gas and with their crap regulations, it's a great option. For people in other situations they'll have to figure something else out.

You’re still missing the point of the original question. No P500 needed. Run the b58 pump if you want and max out the stock m2 turbo setup with it. There’s no more magical power that will appear with the p500 bc the b58 pump can’t handle it.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by ZM2

You’re still missing the point of the original question. No P500 needed. Run the b58 pump if you want and max out the stock m2 turbo setup with it. There’s no more magical power that will appear with the p500 bc the b58 pump can’t handle it.

Based on?
Didn't the P500 make 450whp on pump? Could it make 470whp on e30/40?

Is it possible that's "good enough" for some people?
The issue here is you're already deciding for everyone what is "enough" for them.

I have said I have zero interest in running E85 in any mix - if I upgraded to a Stage 2 turbo, a B58 pump would be perfect to.max out my setup on pump. I could if desired run a little e down the road.

I already have a Dorch Stage 1, I already have a HPFP tune. None of what I'm saying is in support of any vendor, it's just being objective.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Based on?
Didn't the P500 make 450whp on pump? Could it make 470whp on e30/40?

Is it possible that's "good enough" for some people?
The issue here is you're already deciding for everyone what is "enough" for them.

I have said I have zero interest in running E85 in any mix - if I upgraded to a Stage 2 turbo, a B58 pump would be perfect to.max out my setup on pump. I could if desired run a little e down the road.

I already have a Dorch Stage 1, I already have a HPFP tune. None of what I'm saying is in support of any vendor, it's just being objective.

Wtf are you talking about? You’re just making yourself look dumb. You’re telling ppl to add $2k in P500 parts, mods, and labor for what? 10whp more on CA91 or a little more in e30 than just maxing the stock turbo out on the b58 pump? I still don’t think you understand the original premise of the question that was being asked.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Wtf are you talking about? You’re just making yourself look dumb. You’re telling ppl to add $2k in P500 parts, mods, and labor for what? 10whp more on CA91 than just maxing the stock turbo out on the b58 pump? I still don’t think you understand the original premise of the question that was being asked.

Did you even see what was asked before you started calling people "dumb"

Get a grip, you're easily the most unhinged and childish person on this side of the forum.

Let's revisit what was asked:

Originally Posted by socalm2nual

Is anyone using the B58TU pump with their pure 500? It seems to be a good option for those of us that have to worry about smog.

Did he ask about the Dorch Stage 1? No. Is the Dorch or any other aftermarket HPFP plug and play for cars in CA? No.

Let's move on.

Originally Posted by Joestotn

Does it give you the headroom for what the p500 would need on pump gas or a light E-mix? I thought b58tu was about 10% over the n55 pump? Am I wrong on that?

Here is the second question - can he run pump gas and light E mixes on the TU pump - YES, he can.

He didn't ask about you opinions on modding cars, he didn't ask about Dorch, he didn't ask you to critique his build. I answered the questions that were asked, which has me circling around to....

What the he'll are you complaining about?

[ZM2]

CA guys, add the b58 pump and max out the stock turbo on 91 or ethanol and dyno it.

Then, drop the coin on the p500, install, and supporting mods, and max out the b58 pump and dyno it.

Compare the numbers and then come back and tell us who’s crazy.

[AmuroRay]

I have been reading through the B58tu thread all night off and on - a guy put one in his B58 with a EFR turbo and made almost 600whp on a E30.
Different cars, different engines, different turbos - same idea.

Originally Posted by kern417

Adding some data to the mix. I finally got some dynojet results with the TU pump. This is a great example that you can reference if people are curious about how much HP the TU pump can support. The key to these results is 1. a bigger turbo that can flow more air in high RPM, and 2. finding the optimal fuel mix (bigger turbos will need less E85 to reach it's limits). Hope this helps.

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...&postcount=416

I wouldn't ask a boy to do a man's job, and I also wouldn't ask a Stage 1.5 turbo through a highly restrictive downpipe and ots tune to make me 500whp.

We all have opinions on builds.

For what it's worth, the HPFP was enough for 20whp+ on 91 for the stock turbo. It's not going to set the world on fire, but it will be a very nice increase over stock.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=2104220

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

I have been reading through the B58tu thread all night off and on - a guy put one in his B58 with a EFR turbo and made almost 600whp on a E30.
Different cars, different engines, different turbos - same idea.




https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...&postcount=416

I wouldn't ask a boy to do a man's job, and I also wouldn't ask a Stage 1.5 turbo through a highly restrictive downpipe and ots tune to make me 500whp.

We all have opinions on builds.

For what it's worth, the HPFP was enough for 20whp on 91 for the stock turbo. It's not going to set the world on fire, but it will be a very nice increase over stock.

Not even remotely close to the question that was asked.

As I stated, CA guys, add the b58 pump and max out the stock turbo on 91 or ethanol and dyno it.

Then, drop the coin on the p500, install, and supporting mods, and max out the b58 pump and dyno it.

Compare the numbers and then come back and tell us who’s crazy.

[3t3p]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

I have been reading through the B58tu thread all night off and on - a guy put one in his B58 with a EFR turbo and made almost 600whp on a E30.
Different cars, different engines, different turbos - same idea.




https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showpost.php?p=27664239&postcount=416

I wouldn't ask a boy to do a man's job, and I also wouldn't ask a Stage 1.5 turbo through a highly restrictive downpipe and ots tune to make me 500whp.

We all have opinions on builds.

For what it's worth, the HPFP was enough for 20whp+ on 91 for the stock turbo. It's not going to set the world on fire, but it will be a very nice increase over stock.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2104220

20whp with hpfp on pump gas stock turbo I'd be pleased with that why does everyone say not to upgrade hpfp for stock turbo. Not everyone wants or needs crazy numbers!

Having said that I really want the Pure 500 AND HPFP and a custom tune.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by 3t3p

20whp with hpfp on pump gas stock turbo I'd be pleased with that why does everyone say not to upgrade hpfp for stock turbo. Not everyone wants or needs crazy numbers!

Having said that I really want the Pure 500 AND HPFP and a custom tune.

Bc the answer is more complicated than all the back and forth. Assuming a good tune to safely max out hardware, there are three different limitations being pushed against: octane, fuel flow, and turbo.

91 ACN- HPFP alone won’t get you anything. A P500 might get you 20whp over the stock turbo? You might not even need an HPFP upgrade with it, but B58/DS1.5 if you want to be safe bc all our stock hpfp’s are getting older & weaker, logs would confirm if needed. Is a turbo, custom tune, and potential HPFP worth 20whp?

93- HPFP alone might net you 5-10whp on the stock turbo, but you better have really good 93 and a good custom tune—not worth it. We’ve seen a P500 add 40-45whp above the stock turbo. HPFP required. This isn’t a fuel choice for the ACN guys, so might as well skip the b58 pump and go DS1.5.

E30-50- 45-80whp above stock with a P500. HPFP required. The B58 pump is going to choke here and won’t hit those gains, it flows a decent bit less than even the older DS1 with the updated BM3 flow settings. With the b58 pump you’ll probably be lucky to get 45whp more than stock. You can actually get pretty close to those gains with the stock turbo, but the P500 gets you a flatter curve up top. The DS1.5 is the obvious choice here to unlock all the gains, while the DS2.5 if you want headroom or to run E50+ later.

So, the only scenario at all that makes sense here for the b58 pump are the CA guys that have to pass CA emissions. And then if they want to add the p500, they’re ok running a custom detuned ethanol map that will net a few peak whp more but better top end vs the stock turbo bc they’re still hpfp limited. Adding the p500 & custom tune to a b58 hpfp limited situation is def a good bit more cash & pain for limited gain vs just running the stock turbo and e30-40 with an OTS map.

[3t3p]

Thanks, I have access to 98/93 fuel and will never do ethanol.

I want a bit more pace but especially to pull meaningfully to redline.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by 3t3p

Thanks, I have access to 98/93 fuel and will never do ethanol.

I want a bit more pace but especially to pull meaningfully to redline.

A P500, DS1.5, and an HCP custom tune and you should be set.

Unless NZ checks for aftermarket hardware or software (can flash the stock map with the DS1.5 selected).

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by 3t3p

20whp with hpfp on pump gas stock turbo I'd be pleased with that why does everyone say not to upgrade hpfp for stock turbo. Not everyone wants or needs crazy numbers!

Having said that I really want the Pure 500 AND HPFP and a custom tune.

People say a lot of things and they aren't really based on much. I've asked for sources for cars that "Gain nothing" on HPFPs and pump gas, or that max out the B58TU pump and I haven't seen anything yet. I'm not saying it's not true, but I am saying I haven't verified it myself.

And I do need to verify things myself. If I let people on this forum steer my part selection I would be running a $900 Wagner Evo2 with IATs 30F above ambient, the very restrictive stock F22 airbox, no HPFP because I'm running pump 93 only and have 40whp less than I do now, with a car that is incredibly laggy because of the terrible stock airbox.

Anyhow, this idea that power can't be gained on a pump gas tune is absolutely unfounded.

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1563313
430whp/454wtq Pump 93 stock HPFP
528 whp and 570wtrq Pump 93 (boostane?) XDI HPFP


https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=2114401
It was worth 25BHP on the stock turbo here:
424BHP Pump gas stock HPFP
450BHP Pump gas B58TU HPFP

Again, no one here (at least not me) is saying the B58tu pump will max a setup out. But depending on your goals the power gain may be enough for you.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

People say a lot of things and they aren't really based on much. I've asked for sources for cars that "Gain nothing" on HPFPs and pump gas, or that max out the B58TU pump and I haven't seen anything yet. I'm not saying it's not true, but I am saying I haven't verified it myself.

And I do need to verify things myself. If I let people on this forum steer my part selection I would be running a $900 Wagner Evo2 with IATs 30F above ambient, the very restrictive stock F22 airbox, no HPFP because I'm running pump 93 only and have 40whp less than I do now, with a car that is incredibly laggy because of the terrible stock airbox.

Anyhow, this idea that power can't be gained on a pump gas tune is absolutely unfounded.

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1563313
430whp/454wtq Pump 93 stock HPFP
528 whp and 570wtrq Pump 93 (boostane?) XDI HPFP


https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=2114401
It was worth 25BHP on the stock turbo here:
424BHP Pump gas stock HPFP
450BHP Pump gas B58TU HPFP

Again, no one here (at least not me) is saying the B58tu pump will max a setup out. But depending on your goals the power gain may be enough for you.

You continue to make my points for me.

The m2 already has the less restrictive airbox and you’re running milvs, so your gains don’t mean anything here.

And your first link is to a PS2, not P500. That’s also pointless info that is going to give someone’s hopes up if they get a P500 (which is the point of the question that was asked), which is octane limited compared to the PS2. No one in this thread cares about the PS2 or what the b58 pump will do with it.

And, for the second link, M2’s routinely do more power on the stock hpfp & turbo with a bm3 stg 2 93 ots map than that shop did with their b58 pump and custom tune (450bhp flywheel?). So what’s being proved other than go with them if you want a slower car?

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by ZM2

You continue to make my points for me.

The m2 already has the less restrictive airbox and you’re running milvs, so your gains don’t mean anything here.

And your first link is to a PS2, not P500. That’s also pointless info that is going to give someone’s hopes up if they get a P500 (which is the point of the question that was asked), which is octane limited compared to the PS2. No one in this thread cares about the PS2 or what the b58 pump will do with it.

And, for the second link, M2’s routinely do more power on the stock hpfp & turbo with a bm3 stg 2 93 ots map than that shop did with their b58 pump and custom tune (450bhp flywheel?). So what’s being proved other than go with them if you want a slower car?

Sure thing guy.

TL;DR
You can gain power with any upgraded HPFP Stock turbo or otherwise - pick the right one for your goals. Pump gas and/or low E mix - B58TU/Dorch Stage 1 is ok

More/Full E85 - Consider a Dorch Stage 2 or the like.

[socalm2nual]

How much whp are people getting now with stock turbo + fueling? I imagine for those that want to keep low end response it’s probably good enough vs the pure 500 route

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by socalm2nual

How much whp are people getting now with stock turbo + fueling? I imagine for those that want to keep low end response it’s probably good enough vs the pure 500 route

ACN91
Adding a B58 or Dorch HPFP to a stock turbo won't provide any more power over the stock HPFP, as you'll already be octane limited to make more power with the stock turbo. I think it's around ~365-70whp, or ~30-35whp more than stock?


E40-E50
With the stock turbo, you can hit ~445whp. HPFP required, and you can simply run an OTS map.

The P500 with a B58 pump (since you're in CA) would have similar peak whp because you'll be close to its flow limit, altho, it would keep power higher above 5.5k RPM--a custom tune with a good bit of logging and tune revisions would be required for this approach to not overwork the B58 pump and get drop outs, especially in cooler weather.

A P500 with a DS1.5 and E50 will hit ~480whp (I've seen higher), but then you have the CA emissions issue.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by socalm2nual

How much whp are people getting now with stock turbo + fueling? I imagine for those that want to keep low end response it’s probably good enough vs the pure 500 route

I posted the dyno -
380whp ACN 91
408whp 91 HPFP

Link here:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=2104220

365/376 fbo stock tune
381/421 fbo bm3 s2 91 acn
393/448 fbo bm3 s2 91 with DS15 HPFP

Stock turbos are already fuel limited, any tuner will tell you this. You can make probably closer to 430whp on a P500 - 460whp on a PS2 on 91oct. (no idea what the P600 will do yet)

You won't max out a B58 or a Dorch stage 1 at those levels.

[AmuroRay]

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...&postcount=710

Originally Posted by arekuf3x

The plunger is 9mm on b58 evo same as n55 hpfp and 10mm on b58tu pump. How does it cause damage, I don’t know so I’m sticking with b58 gen 1 pump for now. I’m running pure500 turbo, I finally was able to crash b58 pump on e30 tune around 21.5-22psi, I think I have to stick with 19-20psi max. I’m still happy with this setup, too bad for smog, I would just get dorch stage 2.

The weaker B58 pump (not the TU which flows 23% more) was still able to run 20psi on a E30.
I think a lot of this is overblown.