[3t3p]

For those considering the P500 came across this YT post.

Change the intake people!

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by 3t3p

For those considering the P500 came across this YT post.

Change the intake people!

What kind of car?

[3t3p]

M135i EWG

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by 3t3p

M135i EWG

The M2 already has a good stock intake. There hasn’t been much proof of aftermarket intakes producing anything except excessive noise and CELs on the M2 unless you’re pushing serious power.

[3t3p]

That might be, didn't think that the m135i box might not be the (ppk?) one but even if spool pickup is improved it can give the impression of more pep.

I find my intake creates a sensation of a pressured tube of air always against the impeller and think with a larger turbo it will really help.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by 3t3p

For those considering the P500 came across this YT post.

Change the intake people!

The horsepower numbers in those two Dynos are within 4% of each other, so not very significant. That difference probably has nothing to do with the intake itself. If the stock airbox had a stock cheap paper filter and the aftermarket intake had a free flow airfilter (which 90+% of them do), the difference in the two filters could easily cause a 4% difference.

There are actually two types of intake upgrade options with performance in mind.

OPTION A: STOCK AIRBOX WITH DROPIN FILTER

NOTE: Keeping the stock intake means no chance of throwing a Check Engine Light.

That post is saying “standard airbox”. It’s not the standard airbox that is the option. It’s the stock airbox with a drop-in free flow airfilter such as the aFe (in photo). Getting rid of the constrictive stock filter material alone can provide a small performance bump.

BMW sells an M Performance Intake (see photo) which is basically a modified airbox bottom with an extra air hole cut in it that is trimmed in red plastic and faces forward towards the incoming cold air flowing from the front grille. It lets extra air get to the filter and allows turbo spool sound to come out.

The stock airbox bottom can be modified by cutting holes where the extra MPI hole is. (See photo) It’s easy to do and hidden from view when you open the hood. Essentially it’s a free M Performance Intake.

OPTION B: AFTERMARKET INTAKE WITH LARGE CONE AIR FILTER.
The cone airfilter has a larger surface area than the standard rectangular drop-in filter.

NOTE: Many aftermarket intakes are poorly designed. They modify the MAF sensor area, causing a Check Engine Light. Most aftermarket intakes are designed to create louder spool noise, not to actually increase performance.

IMO ignore all the nonsense about “closed”, “open”, “cold air”, etc. They are all used as marketing terms to convince people to buy their intake. Make sure the very top of the air filter is covered to prevent the hottest air at the top inside the hood from being pulled directly in.

IMO the MST Intake has the best combination of no CEL, large cone airfilter, heat shielding, unencumbered cool air flow and smooth air tubing. Works great for high horsepower engines.

For an N55 Pure500, the modified stock airbox with a drop-in aFe airfilter is a great choice. OR the MST Intake with the cone filter is also a great choice.

Hope this helps!

[Sparky68]

I have a K&N drop in filter , might have a go at that mod this weekend.

[ZM2]

The M2 intake already has an extra hole in the bottom like the N55 MPPK.

[ThreeStripes]

Originally Posted by ZM2

The M2 intake already has an extra hole in the bottom like the N55 MPPK.

And I believe this may be the M2 forum? I think?

[AmuroRay]

I think the overall point here is that there are gains in the intake system, despite people saying otherwise.

On the F30 side, there are many people who will claim that they made X on a stock intake, and say their are no gains - this is despite many dyno graphs and logs that say otherwise. I've had 6 different intake setups, and while the jump is small between them, the delta between the worst and best is more quantifiable than placebo.

The same thing is said on this side as well, and well, while it's closer to being true than what the NON-M guys say, it's still not true. I'd put money down that a good inlet and intake (because I believe you need both) is worth easily 15whp over the stock setup.

The biggest gripes I have against most intakes is the pretty ones don't work that well, and the ugly ones work best. In that situation, the stock (M2) Intake is a good compromise.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

I think the overall point here is that there are gains in the intake system, despite people saying otherwise.

On the F30 side, there are many people who will claim that they made X on a stock intake, and say their are no gains - this is despite many dyno graphs and logs that say otherwise. I've had 6 different intake setups, and while the jump is small between them, the delta between the worst and best is more quantifiable than placebo.

The same thing is said on this side as well, and well, while it's closer to being true than what the NON-M guys say, it's still not true. I'd put money down that a good inlet and intake (because I believe you need both) is worth easily 15whp over the stock setup.

The biggest gripes I have against most intakes is the pretty ones don't work that well, and the ugly ones work best. In that situation, the stock (M2) Intake is a good compromise.

When you find one for the M2 that has actual gains and doesn’t let more dirt into the engine, let us know.

Even the afe dry drop in filter gave me elevated silicon levels in my UOAs.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by ZM2

When you find one for the M2 that has actual gains and doesn’t let more dirt into the engine, let us know.

Even the afe dry drop in filter gave me elevated silicon levels in my UOAs.

I saw the post - I can't say personally because I never did a UOA, but a few guys have done them with the same intake and nothing came up. I'm willing to bet there was a bad seal or a leak.

My CTS had gains over my M2/AFE (which was excellent), and the RK has gains over the CTS.

Jeremy does a good indepth look on the M2 vs CTS (which I'm sure you read) here:
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1765289

He has a VD graph somewhere that shows consistent gains in torque on the low end. I noted it too in my review of the CTS intake here:

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...&postcount=121

And finally, there is a graph from Bimmerworld testing the Injen intake on the M2 and it showed gains in torque as well:



There were also improvements to IAT performance, and if you care about it, sound with the CTS as well.

I tested the RK intake against the CTS (which again, already had gains over the M2 airbox) and it performs even better. More low end torque and more peak power, and a pretty big deacrease in boost while keeping the "same" power.

I charted it in VD - same mods, same tune and the only change is the CTS to the RK Tunes intake

(Graph is NOT for power comparisons - it's just to compare boost)



Edit - I can do a better example of the boost differences between the intakes. It's pretty pathetic I'm not better in Excel, where I could graph it in a cool spreadsheet vs Load, Boost, MAF, etc

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

I saw the post - I can't say personally because I never did a UOA, but a few guys have done them with the same intake and nothing came up. I'm willing to bet there was a bad seal or a leak.

My CTS had gains over my M2/AFE (which was excellent), and the RK has gains over the CTS.

Jeremy does a good indepth look on the M2 vs CTS (which I'm sure you read) here:
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1765289

He has a VD graph somewhere that shows consistent gains in torque on the low end. I noted it too in my review of the CTS intake here:

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...&postcount=121

And finally, there is a graph from Bimmerworld testing the Injen intake on the M2 and it showed gains in torque as well:



There were also improvements to IAT performance, and if you care about it, sound with the CTS as well.

I tested the RK intake against the CTS (which again, already had gains over the M2 airbox) and it performs even better. More low end torque and more peak power, and a pretty big deacrease in boost while keeping the "same" power.

I charted it in VD - same mods, same tune and the only change is the CTS to the RK Tunes intake

(Graph is NOT for power comparisons - it's just to compare boost)

There’s so much variability in VD plots even with the same car & mods, I don’t lend it any credence for mods like this that have such little potential performance gain. Any “gains” are all within the noise of all the data plots, and there’s just as many runs that show worse performance as better. You can see this in Jeremy’s multiple VD plots with each setup. Sure, there’s also variability bn dyno runs, but much less so bc several of the external variables are removed and it’s an actual measurement vs virtual.

An open air under a hot hood intake like the CTS makes no sense for either stop and go traffic or track/autox where speeds are highly variable. Who cares about highway cruise control performance? Also, there was not an improvement in IATs, ambient temp was lower—Jeremy stated that. An afe scoop is all that’s needed for IAT improvement for most all intakes.

I know a few guys that have removed the Injen bc it was too loud/annoying. And most if not all of the very little BW dyno gains can likely be picked up with an afe drop in, so why mess with the intake?

I personally wouldn’t run the RK bc it looks too Honda tuner’ish to me.

And, I tested two different afe drop in and OE & OEM paper filters bn UOAs. Less flow restriction=more dirt in the engine. My car has more power sees a lot more WOT time than most, tho.

The bang for the buck just isn’t there for aftermarket intakes on the M2. So much brain and wallet damage for very little potential gains that also come with possible negatives.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by ZM2

There’s so much variability in VD plots even with the same car & mods, I don’t lend it any credence for mods like this that have such little potential performance gain. Any “gains” are all within the noise of all the data plots, and there’s just as many runs that show worse performance as better. You can see this in Jeremy’s multiple VD plots with each setup. Sure, there’s also variability bn dyno runs, but much less so bc several of the external variables are removed and it’s an actual measurement vs virtual.

An open air under a hot hood intake like the CTS makes no sense for either stop and go traffic or track/autox where speeds are highly variable. Who cares about highway cruise control performance? Also, there was not an improvement in IATs, ambient temp was lower—Jeremy stated that. An afe scoop is all that’s needed for IAT improvement for most all intakes.

I know a few guys that have removed the Injen bc it was too loud/annoying. And most if not all of the very little BW dyno gains can likely be picked up with an afe drop in, so why mess with the intake?

I personally wouldn’t run the RK bc it looks too Honda tuner’ish to me.

And, I tested two different afe drop in and OE & OEM paper filters bn UOAs. Less flow restriction=more dirt in the engine. My car has more power sees a lot more WOT time than most, tho.

The bang for the buck just isn’t there for aftermarket intakes on the M2. So much brain and wallet damage for very little potential gains that also come with possible negatives.

Well if logs, dyno graphs and personal experience can't change your mind, I don't know what to tell you. I noticed my IATs on consecutive pulls were pretty stable now matter what - the RK Tunes intake even more stable.

The torque gain over the stock intake is there, but it's not earth shattering. Like I said before, the logs clearly show the RK tunes intake lowers boost, I just visualized it in VD, the comparison wasn't about power. Variances will come into play just like on a dyno. Your car will have varied timing, the roads may not be completely smooth and level, etc.

But the boost being lower indicates lower restriction, and my comparison tests were done verses a CTS intake with a Evolve Enenturi scoop. (I posted a video showing how effective the scoop was with compressed air) and a RK tunes intake.

I think Jeremy's log show the same for the CTS vs the M2 with a drop in filter

[Sparky68]

Latest log after some adjustment from HCP , Halim says it looks great but I honestly wouldnt know other than how it feels driving

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=66eb...996b77784baf9a

[johnung]

Originally Posted by Sparky68

Latest log after some adjustment from HCP , Halim says it looks great but I honestly wouldnt know other than how it feels driving

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=66eb0b3e3d996b77784baf9a

Great that your HCP tune is coming along or is it finished ?

So this is your Pure500 using 98RON? Is this with the JB4/methanol setup that you talked about? What HPFP?

[Sparky68]

Its pretty much finished, yep running 100% methanol and stock hpfp.

[johnung]

A few years ago Kies Motorsports owned a DynoJet. They played around trying to test performance gains from intakes which would substantiate intake manufacturers claims, or not.

Please keep in mind that an aftermarket intake consists of the intake plus the included free flowing air filter. It’s my contention that most of any performance improvements found come from filter material and larger filter area in cone shaped filters vs rectangular drop-in.

Kies found some poorly designed intakes that actually reduced performance. Kies had a difficult time trying to duplicate manufacturers claims. In a conversation that I had with them they said that they came away with the impression that when a great dyno showing an improvement was published that it was probably an outlier that didn’t match the other dynos that the companies ran.

My totally inaccurate butt dyno tells me that when I drop-in an aFe filter, that I can feel an improvement.

If one looks at the performance claims of intakes, they aren’t significant. 15whp sounds like a solid gain but on a 300whp engine that’s only 5%. On a 500whp car, it’s only 3%. Pretty close to imperceptible.

[Sparky68]

My M135i ran terrible on the JB4 intake

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by Sparky68

My M135i ran terrible on the JB4 intake

Yeah, I believe it. My Dinan was crap, and the BMS looked and felt cheap, and a crude cold start but sounded pretty good.

https://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=981972

Originally Posted by Brings

Just got my car dynoed at European Auto Source with JUST the aFe Power Magnum FORCE intake (open cone filter):

Results:


All dyno runs were done at European Auto Source, so there was no change in the dyno used.
Disclaimer: This is my own personal testing since I wanted to see the results for myself, so this is not a scientific test.

I did a stock dyno run of my car a few weeks ago where it yielded 302whp/320wtq with the IAT at 122F with ambient temps around 70F.

When I did the dyno test of my car with the aFe intake, the ambient temp was 100F! Unfortunately, I couldn't get the stock intake dyno done on the same day, so this is all I can report on.
With the aFe intake (no other mods), the car netted 8whp and 25wtq with IATs at 140F. A great gain in my opinion, considering the weather.

Then came the heatsoak test where we left the hood closed and the car idling for several minutes. The car lost 7whp and 6wtq (from stock values on a much cooler day) with IATs of 162F. It was not as bad as I thought it would be considering how much the armchair engineers complain about how bad it is.

[M2guru]

It has been a little while since I have updated because I continue to run into issues. After the latest PURE750 I had whose wastegate arm had shifted beyond the adjustability of the EWG actuator, I installed another one sent to me by PURE.

A week or so after the installation, I had a track day 5 hours away at Road America. I got 2-3 laps into the first session and I was losing boost again. Super frustrating! I waited for the engine to cool off and I examined the wastegate by disconnecting the actuator. The wastegate flapper was stuck again.

I called PURE and talked it over with them while I was at the track. They suggested there might be an issue with my car. I highly doubted it, but figured we'd dig into it. They also mentioned that they are waiting on a batch of wastegate parts (the pivot arm and corresponding sleeve) that are made out of different material (310) and when I send this one back, they'll put the new pieces in.

I also logged the session which showed boost being fine and then dropping off as the wastegate grew stuck in the turbine housing/turbofold. PURE said they'd like to see the log, so I shared it with them. They responded by saying the timing is super low causing (likely) excessive heat to the tubine housing and wastegate. You can see the log here: https://datazap.me/u/m2guru/log-1724...og=0&data=4-17

I reached out to my tuner a few times (using different methods) and have been ghosted thus far. I feel like my tuner reduced timing to keep the engine safe (a good idea), but it has been at the expense of timing and overheating the turbine housing and wastegate. I was hoping to talk about options and possibly increasing timing a bit.

I am not aware of anyone else tracking like I am to compare tunes and timing. What I see above in the recent log is timing around 10 vs. mine which is around 5 (at best). If anyone is aware of tracking and timing logs, I'd like to compare.

My plan now is to await the new turbofold with new wastegate parts and then find a local dyno to do a remote tune on a dyno. I just need to find a reliable tuner who will communicate, so I am taking opinions. I think I'll try Shoup next.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by M2guru

It has been a little while since I have updated because I continue to run into issues. After the latest PURE750 I had whose wastegate arm had shifted beyond the adjustability of the EWG actuator, I installed another one sent to me by PURE.

A week or so after the installation, I had a track day 5 hours away at Road America. I got 2-3 laps into the first session and I was losing boost again. Super frustrating! I waited for the engine to cool off and I examined the wastegate by disconnecting the actuator. The wastegate flapper was stuck again.

I called PURE and talked it over with them while I was at the track. They suggested there might be an issue with my car. I highly doubted it, but figured we'd dig into it. They also mentioned that they are waiting on a batch of wastegate parts (the pivot arm and corresponding sleeve) that are made out of different material (310) and when I send this one back, they'll put the new pieces in.

I also logged the session which showed boost being fine and then dropping off as the wastegate grew stuck in the turbine housing/turbofold. PURE said they'd like to see the log, so I shared it with them. They responded by saying the timing is super low causing (likely) excessive heat to the tubine housing and wastegate. You can see the log here: https://datazap.me/u/m2guru/log-1724...og=0&data=4-17

I reached out to my tuner a few times (using different methods) and have been ghosted thus far. I feel like my tuner reduced timing to keep the engine safe (a good idea), but it has been at the expense of timing and overheating the turbine housing and wastegate. I was hoping to talk about options and possibly increasing timing a bit.

I am not aware of anyone else tracking like I am to compare tunes and timing. What I see above in the recent log is timing around 10 vs. mine which is around 5 (at best). If anyone is aware of tracking and timing logs, I'd like to compare.

My plan now is to await the new turbofold with new wastegate parts and then find a local dyno to do a remote tune on a dyno. I just need to find a reliable tuner who will communicate, so I am taking opinions. I think I'll try Shoup next.

I would do a log in comfort mode - The mapping is different and the timing is higher and boost lower (at least on my car) vs running in Sport/Sport+