[ZM2]

Originally Posted by F87source

impressive, but how high is your WGDC? This much boost can't be good for a turbo that small.

On the Stg 3 E50 beta WGDC is 88-90% thru the rev range. On the Stg 2+ MM it is 85-88%.

[insane11]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Quick update. I think we found the limits of the TTE460. See the chart below.

The Stg 3 E50 beta map def adds good power b/n 3500-5600RPM, but falls off pretty quick above that as timing starts to crack up a little bit on E50. I think the tune would run just fine on a PS2 with E50, but I’d need to run E70+ to make 23psi work to redline smoothly, which would require LPFP upgrades and running a super high Emix all the time.

Of the three maps I like the top end curve of the Stg 2+ MM more (21psi with more timing), so after all this I may just run the Stg 2+ MM and take my Emix up to E60 or whatever the stock LPFP will handle.

Let me know what you guys think!

it is too late to beta test this map.. i have ps2 and willing to test it if they need me too??

[F87source]

Originally Posted by ZM2

On the Stg 3 E50 beta WGDC is 88-90% thru the rev range. On the Stg 2+ MM it is 85-88%.

Not too crazy high, that TTE is impressive!

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by F87source

Not too crazy high, that TTE is impressive!

Yeah, I think the amount of power from the Stg 3 E50 beta map is just a bit more than the TTE can flow, similar to what my Dinan was doing--look at how similar the upper RPM trends are b/n the two!

The Multimap looks like the best fit for the TTE and keeps power solid to redline. Should be even better when it's not super cold out and I run E60-65. Gotta love that with stock like spool!

I'm sure the beta map rocks on a PS2, TTE550, etc., tho!

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by insane11

it is too late to beta test this map.. i have ps2 and willing to test it if they need me too??

Cool, I'll put a bug in Halim's ear & let you know. Clearly it's a map for the big turbos!

[insane11]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Cool, I'll put a bug in Halim's ear & let you know. Clearly it's a map for the big turbos!

thank you

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Quick update. I think we found the limits of the TTE460. See the chart below.

The Stg 3 E50 beta map def adds good power b/n 3500-5600RPM, but falls off pretty quick above that as timing starts to crack up a little bit on E50. I think the tune would run just fine on a PS2 with E50, but I'd need to run E70+ to make 23psi work to redline smoothly, which would require LPFP upgrades and running a super high Emix all the time.

Of the three maps I like the top end curve of the Stg 2+ MM more (21psi with more timing), so after all this I may just run the Stg 2+ MM and take my Emix up to E60 or whatever the stock LPFP will handle.

Let me know what you guys think!

Nice comparison. Seems that E50 is more aggressive but the top end is not holding up indeed.

BTW am I reading it correctly that MM map makes identical power than E30? Have you compared the log?

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

Nice comparison. Seems that E50 is more aggressive but the top end is not holding up indeed.

BTW am I reading it correctly that MM map makes identical power than E30? Have you compared the log?

Hi SeanWRT

For my setup Stg 2+ E30 (on any Emix >E30) and Stg 2+ MM (on E50) have similar peak whp, but the MM averages ~15whp more than the Stg 2+ E30 before & after the peak.

In the logs below you'll see that boost targets are the same for the Stg 2+ MM & E30 maps, but the MM dials in a little more timing (15.5deg vs 13.5deg) bc it's reading E50 from my BM3 Flexfuel sensor.

To me this is why the 20.8psi boost target on the MM with the Emix timing advance feature and running E50-E65 seems to be the best fit for my car, vs the Stg 3 E50 beta that is targeting 23psi that is pushing the TTE a little too hard.

I've asked Halim if I should stick with the MM, or if he wants to taper the boost target up top on the Stg 3 E50 beta so we can have more mid range power and similar top end power as the MM.

Stg 2+ MM https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6205...729b3a50870ec1
Stg 2+ E30 https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=61cc...729b1628c6de69

[AmuroRay]

I really like the power curve on the Multimap. Do you dial down the power for events ZM2 ?

Also, does this scale with pump gas? Meaning E10? Could you in theory max out the car on a pump gas map?

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

I really like the power curve on the Multimap. Do you dial down the power for events ZM2 ?

Also, does this scale with pump gas? Meaning E10? Could you in theory max out the car on a pump gas map?

Yeah, that Multimap curve is nice! I think I can get 5-10whp more out of it on E60-65 while keeping it flat up top. I'll test that against an updated Stg 3 E50 beta map once Halim has a minute.

I haven't ran any of the Stg 2+ Exx maps on track, yet. Will see how they do this year.

And, the Multimap will scale down to E10 93 octane. I have some preliminary logs over here, and will update the thread soon: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1884838

[ZM2]

Another quick update that Chris @ Dorch will be pushing a Dorch Stage 1 HPFP checkbox update soon to Halim/BM3 that provides the additional pump headroom I've been testing out.

It was just enough to allow my car to run the Stg 3 E50 beta map (and hit 494whp/547wftlbs on E50!) and removed HPFP crashes on kickdown that I was having with high Emixes in cold weather.

I love upgrades like this!

[ZM2]

Alright, since my puny TTE460 can't hang with the Stg 3 E50 beta map above 5600RPM, Halim is looking for some guys with PS2, TTE550, etc., that want to give it a shot.

Requirements are you already have solid Stg 2+ E30 logs, ability to quickly turn around beta logs after map revisions, FBO, turbo inlet pipe, larger IC, 3.5bar TMAP, obviously larger HPFP & turbo, and ideally an ethanol sensor to read Emix levels accurately.

Oh, and you'll also need some good weather and tires bc this map rips, and if you have a local Dynojet that you've already put runs on and can compare the Stg 3 beta map to those, that's a bonus.

If this is you, send me a PM and I'll get you hooked up!

[motivman]

Originally Posted by rtl32

Rough day logging some Stg 2+ E30 pulls for Halim to set up for the trying the e50 beta

Fresh E43 in tank, 50 ambient, 10k on the plugs and 5k on the injectors and coils.

Felt like the car had a slight misfire if I WOT 4th at 2500 rpm. Almost like a shudder so I started a bit higher than that and focused on 3rd gear. Thought it was just too much lugging on the long MT gears.

Did these three runs:
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=61e8...90c636209a9e7c
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=61e8...0b43733cf00c8e
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=61e8...729b1ecdcf782a

Then:
Pulled to redline in 3rd shifted to 4th and massive drivetrain malfunction and loss of power around 5k rpm full load. Ugly set of codes, looks like I shut off injectors 4/5/6 and had some bad misfires and a superknock. See attached screenshot.

Unfortunately messed up initiating the log on the eventful pull. Of course..

Car was running on three cylinders, pulled right over and shut it off.

Restarted the car, started up perfectly on all 6 and drove home normally. Did one more 2-3 pull to see how it felt: felt fine, also log looks mysteriously fine??

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=61e8...729b1cc8548fea


Once I got home I cleaned my MAF and put a brand new set of plugs in gapped to .023.

Old plugs were between all over the place between .018 and .023, were originally gapped at .022 (I thought it was .020 when I was posting yesterday but I wrote .022 on the box, oops)

About to go out and log a few more pulls. This time stop and check each before doing another.. Definitely don't want that happening again. My first ever draivetrain malfunction almost 2 years into owning he car! Sucks trying to find the space/lack of traffic for a full 4th gear pull.

Did you ever figure out what caused your super knock event? how has your car been running after switching out your spark plugs?

[designatedposter]

Originally Posted by rtl32

The STFT is negative (gradually declines to .7 mid pull every log) but my boost deviation is very low (2nd and 3rd log hold 20+ psi all the way well into 6k rpm, 1st log holds it into mid 5k) and WGDC stays in the 80s until going to the mid 90s at 5300rpm in every log.

Only thing that changed with the new plugs and clean MAF (4th log lower down) is massively improved timing and only holding 16lbs boost to 6k RPM. Somehow better timing brought my boost down, but it was also probably 20 degrees colder ambient (35f) when I took that log so maybe it was a load based change.

Even the EGTs don't indicate any massive changes between all of them. All starting between 900-1100 and ending around 1700.

So I am still wondering how E43 allowed such terrible timing and eventual superknock/ x3 injector shut down when I have literally never had a problem with this map since July. Maybe it has something to do with the version 1.2 that I just flashed last week, and higher fuel pressure (it was 24xx before this, now it is 29xx with the update) but if anything that should overtly IMPROVE fueling and with so much E help things. Could it possibly be oxygen sensors or a downpipe leak causing the trims to get weird, THINK it needs to pull fuel, and then run lean the engine lean because of the oxygen polluting the reading after the turbo?

Maybe pushing it over and over just got the plugs cooking (but they don't look bad?) and boom superknock occurred?

Or maybe I had a HPFP crash and because of their location further along the fuel rail cylinder 4-5-6 didn't get enough fuel and thats why they shut down (with 6 being the one experiencing the superknock)

Scared to push it again now..




All of this is in the support portal waiting to see what he thinks of this first.

what's the story? i'm looking at your latest log: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=61e8...0b43733cf00d3b

your boost isn't keeping up with target. (16.5 vs 20.8)
your MAF reading is low - do you have stock intake? i max out 41.3 lb/min at around 4500rpm @ 20psi with stock intake, stock turbo inlet.
your STFT continues to drop to 0.7 which is the max the DME will correct for.
your wgdc is high for the boost you are making

seems like you either have a boost leak, a faulty MAF, and/or a faulty front o2 sensor? a faulty MAF shouldn't be an issue for WOT though.

my theory is STFT maxes out at 0.7, and you continue to run rich, causing misfire, causing DME intervention. or worse, you have faulty o2 sensor and you are actually running lean rather than rich and you get super knock.

[rtl32]

Originally Posted by designatedposter

what's the story? i'm looking at your latest log: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=61e8...0b43733cf00d3b

your boost isn't keeping up with target. (16.5 vs 20.8)
your MAF reading is low - do you have stock intake? i max out 41.3 lb/min at around 4500rpm @ 20psi with stock intake, stock turbo inlet.
your STFT continues to drop to 0.7 which is the max the DME will correct for.
your wgdc is high for the boost you are making

seems like you either have a boost leak, a faulty MAF, and/or a faulty front o2 sensor? a faulty MAF shouldn't be an issue for WOT though.

my theory is STFT maxes out at 0.7, and you continue to run rich, causing misfire, causing DME intervention. or worse, you have faulty o2 sensor and you are actually running lean rather than rich and you get super knock.

Fantastic analysis and I didn't notice the MAF low reading. That is the one part of this that doesn't point to boost leak, the MAF reading would be maxed because the turbo is pushing more air than being delivered. Good point on the o2 sensor, but the plugs would be fried so I don't think that's the answer.

My trims lean out at idle to the point where I am getting p0171 code if the car idles too long. STFT returns to 1 when I give it gas from idle with no load, but goes negative under heavy load so I suspect I have a boost leak that sips at idle and pisses under throttle.

Originally Posted by motivman

Did you ever figure out what caused your super knock event? how has your car been running after switching out your spark plugs?

Much better but I also had a shoulder surgery right after I swapped them out so I haven't really pushed it either. Definitely some WOT pulls yes but no consecutive WOT gears or anything like that. However no misfires hesitation and clean idle since.


I really just need to address this boost leak. Anybody have a testing cap? I know the inlet is all the way down there in the bay. Anybody have an easy way of doing this (since I kind of need to baby my shoulder for the next 8 weeks)

[Strandh]

Hello,
ZM2
What is your best 100-200 time?
If you hade only the Dorch stg1 hpfp and all other bolts on. Excluding the TTE460, what do you think the car would you performed then? With proper tune.

Thank, Simon

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by Strandh

Hello,
ZM2
What is your best 100-200 time?
If you hade only the Dorch stg1 hpfp and all other bolts on. Excluding the TTE460, what do you think the car would you performed then? With proper tune.

Thank, Simon

Here are best case scenario estimates based on testing by me and others:

Stg 2+ E30
Stock turbo - 7.8s
Dinan turbo - 7.6s
TTE460 - 7.1s
PS2 - 6.9s

Upcoming Stg 3 E50
Stock turbo - 7.6s
Dinan turbo - 7.4s
TTE460 - 6.9s
PS2 - 6.6s

[rtl32]

Any update on public release?

My issues have all been resolved - boost/smoke tests showed no leaks. Swapped Dinan Intake back to stock + KN filter and fuel trims are now perfect. Boy was that thing throwing off my MAF and fueling. Also gained 4 mpg!

[ZM2]

Hello my ethanol running N55 brethren!

Just a quick update that BM3 has pushed out the Dorch Stage 1 HPFP checkbox update that provides extra flow! Enough so that my car was able to hit 494whp on E50 on the Stage 3 E50 beta map. All you need to do is re-download any of the maps that you routinely use, and you'll get the update.

I'm going to try E60-65 this week on the Stg 2+ Multimap and an updated Stg 3 E50 beta map that Halim sent me. We're going to compare the 2+ MM with more timing scaling from the higher Emix & ethanol sensor and the Stg 3 E50 beta with a little less boost up top to try to smooth out the curve, versus my last dyno: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...&postcount=439

Also, we're waiting on more logs from PS2 guys before Halim will push the Stg 3 E50 beta to OTS.

[JKen_0115]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Hello my ethanol running N55 brethren!

Just a quick update that BM3 has pushed out the Dorch Stage 1 HPFP checkbox update that provides extra flow! Enough so that my car was able to hit 494whp on E50 on the Stage 3 E50 beta map. All you need to do is re-download any of the maps that you routinely use, and you'll get the update.

I'm going to try E60-65 this week on the Stg 2+ Multimap and an updated Stg 3 E50 beta map that Halim sent me. We're going to compare the 2+ MM with more timing scaling from the higher Emix & ethanol sensor and the Stg 3 E50 beta with a little less boost up top to try to smooth out the curve, versus my last dyno: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...;postcount=439

Also, we're waiting on more logs from PS2 guys before Halim will push the Stg 3 E50 beta to OTS.

Hey Zack, STG3 E50 OTS maps will require the updated Turbo like PS2 right? It won't apply for the stock turbo with E50-E55 mixed. Also will I get the benefit with new update for HPFP if I run E60 mixed in the stock turbo. Thanks for sharing some great insights.

[rtl32]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Hello my ethanol running N55 brethren!

Just a quick update that BM3 has pushed out the Dorch Stage 1 HPFP checkbox update that provides extra flow! Enough so that my car was able to hit 494whp on E50 on the Stage 3 E50 beta map. All you need to do is re-download any of the maps that you routinely use, and you'll get the update.

So to confirm the version 1.2 label is unchanged, map doesn't display that any update is available, you just need to redownload it? I know there are sometimes differences between N55-M2 and N55-EWG guys, curious if EWG is seeing the same update and how I could tell.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by JKen_0115

Hey Zack, STG3 E50 OTS maps will require the updated Turbo like PS2 right? It won't apply for the stock turbo with E50-E55 mixed. Also will I get the benefit with new update for HPFP if I run E60 mixed in the stock turbo. Thanks for sharing some great insights.

I don't know Halim's exact plans, but from what I've seen in testing I think you're right in that there will be a Stg 3 E50 map for guys with larger turbos and a Stg 2+ E50 map for guys with stock turbos.

The Stg 3 guys will be able to run 23psi to redline, whereas stock turbo Stg 2+ E50 guys should be getting a nice bump in midrange power with boost tapering up top to smooth out the curve.

Ultimately it will take some of both groups dyno'ing their cars on the beta or new maps when they drop, since I'm kind of an in between case with my TTE460.

As for the HPFP update when running the stock turbo & E60--there's no additional power, but you'll absolutely benefit on colder days especially if you go WOT in lower gears where the torque/power demand is greatest. I used to get HPFP drop outs with my Dorch Stage 1 on the Stg 2+ E30 map with my Dinan turbo in those situations. Now, I don't even get drop outs on the Stg 3 E50 beta and E50 fuel with my TTE460 in those situations, so the update should help you too!