[redux]

Originally Posted by Ummm2

There will always be outliers in the thousands of vehicles on the road. Lotus, Miata, brz will be the few that come to mind. Look at that same list of ring times you appear to be looking at. If ring times are idiotic, you are saying that you'd be equally happy owning the bottom ten cars on that list versus the top ten? Because times are irrelevant and have no bearing on driving experience?

I performed the unholy internet sin of downgrading from a GT3RS to a 1M because it was far more fun on at street speeds. There are many slower cars are far more coveted than the ones near the top of the list due to the driving experience they deliver. I'd be happy with whatever car I'm happy with regardless of the ring. Mainly because I won't know or care what the time is and that it's as pointless as the 0-60 magazine bench racing that took place in the 90's.

[M2 CSL]

Originally Posted by redux

I performed the unholy internet sin of downgrading from a GT3RS to a 1M because it was far more fun on at street speeds. There are many slower cars are far more coveted than the ones near the top of the list due to the driving experience they deliver. I'd be happy with whatever car I'm happy with regardless of the ring. Mainly because I won't know or care what the time is and that it's as pointless as the 0-60 magazine bench racing that took place in the 90's.

1) valid point on street speed factor
2) Miata arguably more fun at street speeds than 1M
3) I'm truly sorry about your loss.

[redux]

Originally Posted by Ummm2

1) valid point on street speed factor
2) Miata arguably more fun at street speeds than 1M
They are. I just can't fit in one
3) I'm truly sorry about your loss.
If this about the GT3..... I sure as hell sold that one at the wrong time.

...

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by Ummm2

That's what I find funny. Everyone always cites these purist drivers cars in their arguments but they never own them. Lol.

the 1M is totally a driver's car...if you don't think so I can't help your cause at all....it is an absolute riot to drive. The most enjoyable car I've ever driven and I've driven A LOT.

my point is I don't care if it does a ring lap time of 9 minutes or 8 minutes. Makes absolutely ZERO difference to me. It's a statistic used by people who don't drive things for themselves and instead need a number to quantify what shouldn't be quantified on a street car....

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by redux

I performed the unholy internet sin of downgrading from a GT3RS to a 1M because it was far more fun on at street speeds. There are many slower cars are far more coveted than the ones near the top of the list due to the driving experience they deliver. I'd be happy with whatever car I'm happy with regardless of the ring. Mainly because I won't know or care what the time is and that it's as pointless as the 0-60 magazine bench racing that took place in the 90's.

if you're going to downgrade from a GT3 RS, i can't think of any better street car than to go to a 1M! As well played as it could be, IMO.

[kovsky]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

...my point is I don't care if it does a ring lap time of 9 minutes or 8 minutes. Makes absolutely ZERO difference to me. It's a statistic used by people who don't drive things for themselves and instead need a number to quantify what shouldn't be quantified on a street car....

Well we can't all be professional race car drivers. Isn't it nice to have data points showing relative performance between cars? That requires a 100% commitment out on the track and chances are none of us will go 100%. That's what the ring time gives me it's a "general" barometer on the cars performance. IF the overall performance of the car really means nothing to you then I can understand your comment. If it's just a matter how it feels behind the wheel then I can dig that. That is more important to me as well. Those two things are not mutually exclusive though..

[M2 CSL]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

the 1M is totally a driver's car...if you don't think so I can't help your cause at all....it is an absolute riot to drive. The most enjoyable car I've ever driven and I've driven A LOT.

my point is I don't care if it does a ring lap time of 9 minutes or 8 minutes. Makes absolutely ZERO difference to me. It's a statistic used by people who don't drive things for themselves and instead need a number to quantify what shouldn't be quantified on a street car....

But you do care.

Why didn't you save some money and buy something cheaper than a 1m then?

[M2 CSL]

Originally Posted by Ummm2

But you do care.

Why didn't you save some money and buy something cheaper than a 1m then?

I'm just messing around. Can we still be friends?

[the_phew]

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

While I don't disagree, one need only look at GTR sales to determine that some people much prefer outright speed/performance vs. driver feel/involvement.

I've spent a bit of time behind the wheel of a GT-R. I'd sum up the experience as "like playing Forza, but with risk of bodily harm".

I think the "holy grail" would be a car that gives you the famous Miata tactility, but is powerful enough to also give you the acceleration rush (but not so powerful it'll kill you if your right foot slips). I don't think BMW makes that car, although I think Porsche does (Cayman GT4). If I had $100k+ to blow on a "fun car" and no kids, that would be my choice without second thought. But I have kids and a budget, so the M2 might be the next-best thing.

[sth519]

I also prefer cars that are involving and fun to drive and make you feel connected to the road, but I don't want to own two cars, so whatever car I get needs to work as a daily driver. That means for me:
- I need to fit in it and be able to get in and out of it in a semi-graceful manner (I'm rather tall)
- It needs rear seats that are usable when needed (at least over short distances)
- It needs enough usable boot space to get a few groceries
- It needs to be able to do something like a 500mi road trip without lasting physical injury to the passengers

So whatever I get has to be a compromise and while each persons requirements are slightly different, I think many people face a similar problem.
It's almost never as easy as "just get a Miata" or something like that.

Those compromises are what hot hatchbacks (like the Focus RS) are actually quite good at. Make no mistake: There's a lot of fun to be had in a FWD(/AWD) hot hatch and they're only getting better.

However, if you're looking for something that fits this description and is RWD, your options get rather slim (unless you're looking for a large car, which I'm not). The M135i/M235i are actually great cars in that respect. Some BMW enthusiasts might frown on them but in comparison to a lot of their rivals, these are incredibly nice cars to drive. And now we have the M2 which could end up being one of the most involving and fun to drive BMWs in the current lineup.

There are a lot of cars that will beat the M2 in different categories, including many cars that are cheaper. However, when it comes to an involving, compact RWD car that has at least a bit of real-world practicality, I just don't see many alternatives at the moment.

[DS_BMW]

Time travel option available for focus RS now as a gag. :

[DS_BMW]

.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by Ummm2

I'm very aware that claiming that ring times are completely, utererly, resoundingly, and abso-fucking-lutely pointless is an easy way to appear like one is "in the know" around here but I just don't see things that black and white. Deep down inside everyone would prefer a lower ring time all else equal. Stressing all else equal. Let's agree to disagree.

Agreed.

[Advevo]

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/ne...passenger-ride
http://www.topgear.com/car-news/hot-...cus-rs-yes-it-
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/ford/fo...s-ride-review#

[BEM-S4]

Since you guys are in a heated discussion on ring times, this is seriously one of the most impressive laps I have ever seen considering the vehicle. I am sure many of you have seen the queen of the ring in the Ford van before, but it's worth a watch if not. Also highly amusing when she ditches the Hampster in an attempt to shed weight.

[TunedM2C]

Originally Posted by redux

I performed the unholy internet sin of downgrading from a GT3RS to a 1M because it was far more fun on at street speeds. There are many slower cars are far more coveted than the ones near the top of the list due to the driving experience they deliver. I'd be happy with whatever car I'm happy with regardless of the ring. Mainly because I won't know or care what the time is and that it's as pointless as the 0-60 magazine bench racing that took place in the 90's.

I went from a 1M to a Mini GP and let me tell you, I thought the 1M handled well but the GP was a go-kart on steroids. Much slower car but the handling fun factor makes up for it.

I recently went from the GP to a '15 MB C300 Sport and I deeply regret it. Great luxury features and looks really good but a big bore to drive. Can't wait for my M2!

[Harry Da Hamster]

Sorry there's a few here that can't handle reality. I've owned a few BMW M3's, other BMW's, a Porsche... heck i probably owned a beat up Civic when i was a kid too. Nurburgring lap time on the Civic Type R is better than all those cars. But i don't get bent out of shape over it. Just being real...

[Harry Da Hamster]

Originally Posted by PackPride85

Anyone who says adding a full roll cage doesn't make the chassis stiffer is an idiot. That may have not been the purpose of Honda using it, but it sure as hell made that thing much tighter than any production type R will ever be.

But who would be the bigger idiot? The person(s) who never made that claim? Or the person who quoted it from thin air?

I don't see anyone on this thread who made such a claim so that leave's only one idiot in this equation.

[SGL]

Originally Posted by FNG

But who would be the bigger idiot? The person(s) who never made that claim? Or the person who quoted it from thin air?

I don't see anyone on this thread who made such a claim so that leave's only one idiot in this equation.

Maybe he got it from Honda saying that the cage was for safety only.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Strongbark

I went from a 1M to a Mini GP and let me tell you, I thought the 1M handled well but the GP was a go-kart on steroids. Much slower car but the handling fun factor makes up for it.

I recently went from the GP to a '15 MB C300 Sport and I deeply regret it. Great luxury features and looks really good but a big bore to drive. Can't wait for my M2!

Wow you went from a GP to a C Class? That's a hell of a switch. Never driven a GP, but I loved the MCS and the JCW. Such fun little cars that I'd love to own one day

[alien_junky]

How the hell did I miss this thread...... SIGH..

[pikkagtr]

Originally Posted by the_phew

I've spent a bit of time behind the wheel of a GT-R. I'd sum up the experience as "like playing Forza, but with risk of bodily harm".

I think the "holy grail" would be a car that gives you the famous Miata tactility, but is powerful enough to also give you the acceleration rush (but not so powerful it'll kill you if your right foot slips). I don't think BMW makes that car, although I think Porsche does (Cayman GT4). If I had $100k+ to blow on a "fun car" and no kids, that would be my choice without second thought. But I have kids and a budget, so the M2 might be the next-best thing.

If you can get your hands on the unicorn NSX Type S zero with the 3.2/6MT it will basically be the holy grail car you described.
2800 lbs mid engined rwd